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Author Topic: Lost Finale  (Read 7040 times)

mu_hilltopper

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Lost Finale
« on: May 25, 2007, 11:13:57 PM »
Any Losties on MUscoop?


If you haven't watched the tivo yet, don't read any further.




Love the show, and overall the finale was great  .. BUT:

1. So you're three guys, an Iraqi Army bad-ass, a Chinese Mafia guy, and a dentist, taking on 10 dudes, in the dark and you've got dynamite.  You blow up two bundles and take out 7 bad guys, leaving only 3.  You're in the jungle, under cover of darkness and the enemy has got to be pretty confused about what just happened, especially since huge explosions just went off and might have blinded them a bit.   You'd think you have the upper hand.  Well, there you'd be wrong.  In about 14 seconds, all 3 of you are captured.  Wow.  Real smooth.

2. On a show that has characters with severe communications issues, i.e., they rarely share important information .. as Charlie's tied up and being a smart-ass, getting his teeth knocked out by a girl and presto, on a whim, tells the two underwater chicks every detail of the secret plan.  Oh, and how about giving swimming out the window a try instead of drowning?  (Ok, ok, he needed to die to save them all.)

3.  Speaking of spilling his guts, could Bernard have, I dunno, come up with ANY story but the truth?  Made the details fuzzy, I dunno, maybe even say "I don't know" to one of the questions?  Nope.  He spills his guts in about 20 seconds.  Sure, he's just a dentist, but he's been in a plane crash and toughed it out on an island for a couple months .. and he just told the bad guys exactly where to find his wife.  Nice going, Bernard.

4. They needed to get to the radio tower, sure, but did they need to take everyone, including the mother and child, and Sun, who's pregnant?    Send a small, fast party up there, and take the rest of the group somewhere safe and close.  When they call "the boat" they're going to have to go back to the beach to get rescued anyhow (unless the boat has two helicopters, since one has already crashed.)

5.  And, Hugo with the VW Bus?  How about driving that up to the radio tower instead of the huge trek with everyone?  (That sucker sure does get around the island pretty well without roads.  Good thing the gas in the tank hasn't gone stale or completely gummed up the engine over a few decades.)

6. Next season starts in February 2008!  Man, that's a loooooong way away.

nathanziarek

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2007, 08:30:50 PM »
3.  Speaking of spilling his guts, could Bernard have, I dunno, come up with ANY story but the truth?  Made the details fuzzy, I dunno, maybe even say "I don't know" to one of the questions?  Nope.  He spills his guts in about 20 seconds.  Sure, he's just a dentist, but he's been in a plane crash and toughed it out on an island for a couple months .. and he just told the bad guys exactly where to find his wife.  Nice going, Bernard.
I hate Kate's character for this very reason. Has anyone else screwed up more plotlines and still been invited into the inner circle? Bernard, you've got two choices: let them kill you three or let them chase down and kill your wife and everyone else. You'd think the time on the island would make them stronger, not weaker.

5.  And, Hugo with the VW Bus?  How about driving that up to the radio tower instead of the huge trek with everyone?  (That sucker sure does get around the island pretty well without roads.  Good thing the gas in the tank hasn't gone stale or completely gummed up the engine over a few decades.)
Heh :)

I thought the episode was pretty good, and this season was great. I loved the flashforward with Jack, and I'm really curious where they are going to take the series from here.

My Guesses:

- Ben's funeral was attended by no one.
- The bloodthirsty attitude of Sawyer and Jack, plus the death of so many "Others" makes me think that some sort of cyclical thing might be going on. Will Jack/Sawyer et al. become the "new" others?

My Questions:

- Who is Kate with in the future? Any time Lost doesnt give you information ("He's waiting") it's meaningful.
- Penny ties in in a bigger way than just looking for Des. What's her story?
- Helicopter Crashee said they found the plane and there were no survivors. She was either lying (in which case, who is she?) or there is something else going on. I watched the producers talk two weeks ago and they said "The crew is alive and somewhere in the space/time continuum." If they are just in some alternate dimension, I'm going to be upset I wasted time with it.

My Gripes:

- Stupid black smoke, visions and Jacob. I like the interweaving stories, etc, but only because they are somewhat plausible. Even the polar bear has been explained. But having these fantasy elements makes it too easy to have an escape for any corner the writers back themselves in to. The show is great because it is fairly logical. Adding fantasy ruins that.



All told, I'm glad I stuck it through the lousy last season. This one was really good.

n
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SoCalwarrior

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2007, 11:47:10 AM »
One of the biggest questions I had with the finale's flash forward episode was the repeated mention of Jack's father, Christian.  Especially the  "You get my father down here" scene with the Chief Surgeon.  I read a mailbag story in a small paper that floated a few theories.

1) Christian is still dead. Jack doesn't want the pharmacist to call the office because then he'll get busted for forging a prescription from a dead man. And when he does the "get my father" rant, everyone in the hallway looks at him with pity, which could easily be interpreted as "Wow, look how far gone this guy is: He thinks his old man is still alive."

2) Christian has come back to life through the same healing powers of the island that cured Locke's paralysis (and bullet wound) and Rose's cancer, and which may or may not have resurrected one-eyed Mikhail Bakunin a time or two. Remember, when Jack finally found Christian's coffin, it was empty. Maybe the apparition of his father he saw walking around wasn't an apparition at all, but his actual father slowly coming back from the dead.

3) It's an alternate future, or parallel universe, that's subtly different from the world our heroes left when the plane crashed. Maybe the reason Jack is so consumed with his belief that they never should have left the island is that when they got rescued, things weren't quite right. (It would also be the simplest explanation for Kate not being in prison; maybe in this reality, her father's alive, too, and she never became a fugitive.)

4)  "The writers have also the option of treating Jack's future as Desmond's flash- forward, not Jack's reality." And Desmond has gotten the details of his flashes wrong before.

Pakuni

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2007, 12:57:08 PM »
3) It's an alternate future, or parallel universe, that's subtly different from the world our heroes left when the plane crashed. Maybe the reason Jack is so consumed with his belief that they never should have left the island is that when they got rescued, things weren't quite right. (It would also be the simplest explanation for Kate not being in prison; maybe in this reality, her father's alive, too, and she never became a fugitive.)

That's the best explanation I've heard yet and the only one that, IMO, the show can pull off and still maintain a shred of credibility.
There's been much focus on the question of Jack's dad being alive in the future and how it doesn't mesh with what we know from the show. But the one that struck be as entirely out of whack was that Kate was not only not imprisoned, but apparently easily contacted and available to show up somewhere on short notice. Hardly sounds like the life of a fugitive wanted on a murder rap.

Of the others, option 1 is feasible, but too simple for me to see it as a realistic possibility.
Option 2 is inconsistent. Many others (Shannon, Boone, Mr. Eko, Libby, etc.) have perished on the island without the benefit of resurrection. What makes Jack's dad special?
Option 4 is possible, I suppose, but would sever what little strings of credibility the show has. One of "Lost"'s unspoken deals with its audience is that while there are some fantastical elements to life of the island, the sequences back home are real. Making the Jack flash-forward sequence nothing more than a misguided view of the future by Desmond - a character not at all involved in the sequence - would seem to break that deal.

Great stuff on option #3, though.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2007, 01:11:50 PM »
For whatever reason, when the flashes were occurring, I just assumed they were future flashes.   I had my doubts when Jack referred to his dad as alive, but assumed that he was hopped up on booze and Oxy, and would say stuff like that.

I hope it's not #3 .. once you say "oh, yeah, this is all a different/parallel universe" .. it just turns goofy, like suddenly Hugo wakes up and the whole thing was a dream.  No thanks.  Give me something more plausible than something like that.

Pakuni

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2007, 01:47:19 PM »
For whatever reason, when the flashes were occurring, I just assumed they were future flashes.   I had my doubts when Jack referred to his dad as alive, but assumed that he was hopped up on booze and Oxy, and would say stuff like that.

I hope it's not #3 .. once you say "oh, yeah, this is all a different/parallel universe" .. it just turns goofy, like suddenly Hugo wakes up and the whole thing was a dream.  No thanks.  Give me something more plausible than something like that.

Perhaps parallel universe isn't the best way of phrasing it, but I can buy the concept of the outside world changing because of what happens, or doesn't happen, on the island.
What other explanation can there be for Jack's dad being alive? Or Kate no longer, it seems, being a fugitive. Obviously I don't know for sure what the writers have up their sleeves, but this
Nobody's saying it was all a dream or what happened on the island didn't resally happen. Quite the contrary, the theory is that what happened on the island drastically affected what happened off the island. This, perhaps, is why Locke and Ben were so adamant about the importance of the crash survivors not leaving. And perhaps why Jack, albeit too late, ultimately agrees with them.

Just a thought.


nathanziarek

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2007, 01:48:49 PM »
I have two favorite theories right now (I came up with neither):

- Memory Experiments: The LOST gang are Dharma researchers that volunteered to have memories implanted in them. Problem is, it isn't working perfectly and that is why their stories are so connected. Also makes sense when you think about Sawyer -- a character they've made to be brash and uneducated -- reading some pretty serious literature or Kate -- a wanted fugutive -- being the most trustworthy person on the island. Falls apart pretty quickly after that, but I still liked it :)

- Time travel: I hated the idea at first, because it was too fantasy-like, but the way it was explained (incontext of the show) made me really dig it. Its pretty involved, but the basic question is simple: what if you went back in time and killed your grandfather? There is a theory called the Great Gedanken Experiment that says somehow, it would become physically impossible...something would prevent it from happening.

The theorist used this to explain Ben's timing when he killed his dad (had to wait until after he would have been born), Locke saying that he "couldn't" kill his dad and the flash backs. It could also explain why the flash forward seemed to result from a different time line. If the LOSTies are rescued, but brought back to a part time, they could relive their lives knowing what they know.

Im not explaining it well, so check this out: http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/may/07/great-gedanken-experiment-tale/

Doesn't explain everything, but it isn't too grossly fantastical...and we've still got to give some leniency for the fact that the writers are creative people, not scientists that will not deviate from the science of it all.

n
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SoCalwarrior

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2007, 02:09:30 PM »
I like the memory experiment as the entire show revolves around them.  It could explain why they all seem to be connected.  It makes sense.  It's also a good theme for writers to tackle.  It's the ultimate search for self.

And you're right, who they are on the island doesn't always gel with who they were in their memories.  Following your examples, Locke was a weakling off the Island and a bad ass on it.  And why was Jin, a hitman in his flash backs, the only one who couldn't shoot straight in the finale?

nathanziarek

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2007, 02:20:56 PM »
And why was Jin, a hitman in his flash backs, the only one who couldn't shoot straight in the finale?

The dynamite wasn't moving :)

Seriously: he is in a shooter's stance, aiming at the dynamite and gets off two shots without being able to hit it, but then stands, with guns in his face and hits both "Others" like it was second nature.

ANyway, the memory experiments only hold up so far, but still a neat idea, I think...
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mu_hilltopper

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2007, 03:43:27 PM »
With the dynamite being so unstable as a sneeze would blow it up (remember Atz?) here these guys are traipsing all over the island without so much of a rumble. 

Sh*t, they didn't need guns to set it off.  A slingshot would have been fine .. or some sort of rock that would drop on it.

.. Furthermore, Jack's dad isn't alive.  So a drunken guy says "go check with my dad" a couple times.  Big deal.  He's delirious. 

nathanziarek

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2007, 05:11:41 PM »
...I don't know about Jack's dad. Lost doesn't really use words lightly, and coupling that with the fact that Kate is a free woman makes me think that somehow the future is different than what we know of it now.

The biggest problem with this show is reading too much into it. I sincerely hope it is as good as we are giving it credit for here, but I'm guessing the "truth" will be a let down.
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herboturbo

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2007, 07:00:54 PM »
I have two favorite theories right now (I came up with neither):

- Memory Experiments: The LOST gang are Dharma researchers that volunteered to have memories implanted in them. Problem is, it isn't working perfectly and that is why their stories are so connected. Also makes sense when you think about Sawyer -- a character they've made to be brash and uneducated -- reading some pretty serious literature or Kate -- a wanted fugutive -- being the most trustworthy person on the island. Falls apart pretty quickly after that, but I still liked it :)




If this show turns out to be Total Recall, that would upset me. 

As for Jin and his missing of the dynamite, the other two guys had rifles, Jin had a handgun, which is less accurate - and he only very slightly missed on two shots, its not like he was missing by a ton. 


Finally, for a long time the producers of the show said that the island could be partly explained by scientific means.  If they're not lying one possible explanation is an alternate dimension that cannot be seen nor heard by us living in the 3rd dimension.  Einsteins theory of relativity comes up with the idea of 4 dimensions but in reality there are many more.  The theory of relativity will soon become extinct because it was partly based on the idea that gravity was the most potent natural force on Earth.  This is now known to be untrue - it's actually electromagnitism.   To give an example:  If you jump off the sears tower gravity will allow you to free fall to the ground once you hit a certain speed (32ft/sec) - if you jumped off that same spot and a natural source of electromagnitism was there you would fall less than an inch before stopping in midair.   Around the globe there are natural spots of electromagnitism - two of them are the bermuda triangle and the pacific bermuda triangle called the dragons triangle located off the coasts of japan and china.  What some people theorize, which can also be applied to "Lost", is that the natural electromagnetic pull in these areas are strong enough to open up the other dimenions that exist, but cannot be seen on a normal basis.  So in essence these places would exist in our time, we just cannot visualize them.  It would also explain why the one girl's helicopter instruments started going screwy before she crashed for no apparent reason - the same reports of what happens when airplanes or boats or subs go missing the two bermuda triangles. 

The episode where sawyer saves crazy carl, ben's daughter's boyfriend, from the clockwork orange device turned me on to the idea that this could be true when the voice playing during the video was saying something like, "those who are bound by time and space are idiots" or something like that.  And then when Niomi's helicopter crashed with her saying the instruments started going crazy only made me think that the unseen dimension theory was even stronger. 
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nathanziarek

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Re: Lost Finale
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2007, 04:41:38 PM »
If it turns out to be "alternate reality," scientific or not, I'll be upset. That's only a hair better than the show ending with Hugo waking up at the mental institution.
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