Vote: If Syracuse Has To Vacate The Season, Does MU Hang A Banner?

[MerrittsMustache]

Absolutely not! The primary reason being, Marquette didn't win the conference. It would be bush league and embarassing for Marquette to "claim" the title.

[Benny B]

Vacating a tournament win (or wins) is not the same as vacating a season. When you vacate a win, the game itself is vacated. The other team cannot be declared the winner because the game, in effect, does not exist.  Conversely, the penalized team isn't given a loss for the same reason.

However, when you vacate a season, that teams games no longer exist, and MU doesn't go from 14-4 to 15-3.  Further, vacating Syracuse's season does not affect games played solely amongst the other 15 teams. Therefore, Syracuse's record goes to 0-0 and MU goes to 14-3. Ipso facto, Marquette is the regular season champ.

Don't give me no line about "we didn't earn it." Syracuse earned itself a 0-0.  Marquette earned itself a 14-3.  Damn straight MU earned it.  If the Big East declares it, you hang the banner. If they don't, then all the more reason to win six more games.

[wyzgy]

just so it doesn't have a golden buzzard(no pun with buzz w.) on it.  just MARQUETTE thank you

[Silkk the Shaka]

Syracuse is going to be punished.....they're going to the ACC.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkiQRB0P-5c

[Skitch]

How can you possibly think that MU hanging a conference championship banner somehow punishes Syracuse?

[muwarrior97]

Win it all then hang a banner, not some mamby pamby banner we got because Cuse guys dont go to class or can't read.....

Big Fat No!!!!

[4everwarriors]

We need to take down a number of banners as is, and make a final four run before we put any more up. Granted the VCU banner for their end of the year ranking is bad, but I still cringe just thinking about our  Great Alaska Shootout banner...

Ah, the agenda of one PR mastermind.

[NavinRJohnson]

Hell yes.

[MerrittsMustache]

For all the flack that posters still give Crean for hanging a Great Alaska Shootout banner, I can't believe that so many people are on-board with hanging a Big East "Champions" banner when Marquette didn't win the Big East.

[NavinRJohnson]

For all the flack that posters still give Crean for hanging a Great Alaska Shootout banner, I can't believe that so many people are on-board with hanging a Big East "Champions" banner when Marquette didn't win the Big East.

If Syracuse used an intelligible player and is forced to vacate their wins, MU will have won the Big East.

[MerrittsMustache]

If Syracuse used an intelligible player and is forced to vacate their wins, MU will have won the Big East.

Did Temple and Georgetown hang Final Four banners when Michigan and UMass vacated their wins in '93 and '96? Does UT-Arlington consider itself the first 16-seed to beat a 1-seed since Memphis vacated that win in 2008? Does Tulsa get to retroactively go to the 2008 NCAA Tournament because they lost the ConfUSA game to Memphis that same year?

This isn't the Miss Big East contest where the runner-up takes the crown if the winner can't fulfill the duties. It's seriously embarassing that people think MU should declare themselves champions.

[KenoshaWarrior]

No you dont hang a banner if they have to vacate the title.  Did marquette win the title????  NO and everyone one of our fans nows it.  The only way it will ever matter is when all of us are dead and the history book would say we won the title. 

Try telling Memphis fans that their team did not go to the title game in 2009.   
Technically they did not but you would need to kill ever person who saw the game before it truly takes effect.

This is why I hate when they make a team vacate a title.  essentially your trying to tell people to forget what they saw.  If you really want to punish these teams have them lose scholarships or money, or shut the program down for the next season. 

[Benny B]

For all the flack that posters still give Crean for hanging a Great Alaska Shootout banner, I can't believe that so many people are on-board with hanging a Big East "Champions" banner when Marquette didn't win the Big East.

I can't understand why people think that in the event Syracuse's season is vacated, the other 15 teams should be penalized for the 126 Big East games played that didn't involve Syracuse.

Did Temple and Georgetown hang Final Four banners when Michigan and UMass vacated their wins in '93 and '96? Does UT-Arlington consider itself the first 16-seed to beat a 1-seed since Memphis vacated that win in 2008? Does Tulsa get to retroactively go to the 2008 NCAA Tournament because they lost the ConfUSA game to Memphis that same year?

No you dont hang a banner if they have to vacate the title.  Did marquette win the title????  NO and everyone one of our fans nows it.  The only way it will ever matter is when all of us are dead and the history book would say we won the title. 

Again... the argument here is that if Syracuse's season is vacated, not their title.   These are two entirely different things... as is a tournament "win."  See my earlier post above for an explanation.  The latter two would not result in an "elevation of second place," but vacating an entire season could.

[wyzgy]

We need to take down a number of banners as is, and make a final four run before we put any more up. Granted the VCU banner for their end of the year ranking is bad, but I still cringe just thinking about our  Great Alaska Shootout banner...

if the great alaska shootout banner makes ya "cringe", i'd hate to see your reaction to some of the real atrocities in our world. are you a golden domer? in other words, it was a nice accomplishment considering that people were putting us near the bottom of the big east that year, then to finish 4th and ranked in the top 20.  it was a great start!!

[Silkk the Shaka]

if the great alaska shootout banner makes ya "cringe", i'd hate to see your reaction to some of the real atrocities in our world. are you a golden domer? in other words, it was a nice accomplishment considering that people were putting us near the bottom of the big east that year, then to finish 4th and ranked in the top 20.  it was a great start!!

We were still in CUSA when Amo dropped 30 to win the GAS. That was the start of an NIT season.

[BrewCity83]

This isn't the Miss Big East contest where the runner-up takes the crown if the winner can't fulfill the duties.

There's a Miss Big East contest?  Are tickets available?

[chapman]

Definitely no to the banner. We wouldn't have won it on the court, like Brew said.

Definitely yes to the Defensive Player of the Year. Said it in the other thread - I don't see how he got it in the first place, having missed a good number of games due to ineligibility during the regular season.

Agree with this.  The banner would be a joke and embarrassment to us.  They should re-vote for DPOY though and let a deserving kid get the honor.

There's a Miss Big East contest?  Are tickets available?

Miss USF is the heavy favorite.  Miss Marquette is probably heavy, but not a favorite.

[BrewCity83]

I propose we hang a "Big East Champions 2011-2012" banner that is made of transparent fabric so that everyone can just see right through it.

[Lennys Tap]

Vacating a tournament win (or wins) is not the same as vacating a season. When you vacate a win, the game itself is vacated. The other team cannot be declared the winner because the game, in effect, does not exist.  Conversely, the penalized team isn't given a loss for the same reason.

However, when you vacate a season, that teams games no longer exist, and MU doesn't go from 14-4 to 15-3.  Further, vacating Syracuse's season does not affect games played solely amongst the other 15 teams. Therefore, Syracuse's record goes to 0-0 and MU goes to 14-3. Ipso facto, Marquette is the regular season champ.

Don't give me no line about "we didn't earn it." Syracuse earned itself a 0-0.  Marquette earned itself a 14-3.  Damn straight MU earned it.  If the Big East declares it, you hang the banner. If they don't, then all the more reason to win six more games.

Very well articulated. If Syracuse's season is vacated, we are the Big East champions whether people like it or not. Can't imagine not hanging a banner if that's the case.

[MerrittsMustache]

Very well articulated. If Syracuse's season is vacated, we are the Big East champions whether people like it or not. Can't imagine not hanging a banner if that's the case.

No, if Syracuse's season is vacated then their conference championship is also vacated meaning there was no official champion for the 2011-12 season.

[RawdogDX]

Option 3) A joke banner that we only hang up when Syracuse comes to play.

[leever]

If Syracuse used an intelligible player and is forced to vacate their wins, MU will have won the Big East.

I think Fab is dumb as a box of nails, but I don't know if that makes him "intelligible".  Apparently, he may also have been ineligible.

[GOMU85]

No, if Syracuse's season is vacated then their conference championship is also vacated meaning there was no official champion for the 2011-12 season.

I AGREE 100%

[BrewCity83]

I think Fab is dumb as a box of nails, but I don't know if that makes him "intelligible".  Apparently, he may also have been ineligible.

He is not only ineligible, he is practically unintelligible.  Have you heard him speak?

[Tugg Speedman]

No, if Syracuse's season is vacated then their conference championship is also vacated meaning there was no official champion for the 2011-12 season.

No, if the season is vacated it means Syracuse was essentially not part of the BE this year.  The games do not count.  So, everyone moves up a spot.  We finished first and Depaul was 15th or last place.