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WE NEED A POINT GUARD!!!!

Started by GOMU85, March 08, 2012, 07:58:19 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Canadian Dimes

Junior was horrible last night. Absolutely atrocious how many times did he literally theow the ball to no one?  MU has been blessed with having good to great point guard play since tony miller showed up on campus in 1991.
Unfortunately Junior does not match up with any of the stating PGs we have had since then and i would say that even before last night.  He is a good passer but sub par everything else.
Lastly, to be fair to vander and Djo most of their TOs occurred when they were forced to play PG because Junior was so horrible Buzz could not play him

Goose

Maybe he was going for a triple double last night. Almost a third of the way there with turnovers.

MUMac

Many of DJO's and Vander's TO's came late when they were pressing.  Vander had two on charges and one on the travel with a difficult, and long, outlet on the break.  Caught it in traffic and travelled.

MerrittsMustache

Watching Junior this season has reminded me of the Good Rex/Bad Rex days for the Bears. When he's "on" he can be very impressive and incredibly effective. When he's "off"...well, he can be WAY off. Sometimes he plays a huge part in winning and sometimes the team wins in spite of him.

He'll bounce back.

Goose

Junior is our point guard and he needs to be accountable to his teammates. We all know his limitations and after last night he better know them as well. He needs to be crisp the ball and play within himself.

hairy worthen

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 08, 2012, 08:12:05 PM
Seriously, don't know what Buzz saw in Jr's game that screamed to him that he's gotta have him?

top 50 to 60 recruit

hairy worthen

Quote from: Goose on March 09, 2012, 08:30:22 AM
Junior is our point guard and he needs to be accountable to his teammates. We all know his limitations and after last night he better know them as well. He needs to be crisp the ball and play within himself.

I think he is good when he does that. When he forces the issue he hurts us.

MU82

Yes, Junior was a disaster last night. Can't remember him playing any worse even though it wasn't his first clunker.

Still, I do seem to remember "the worst point guard in the Big East," as some here are calling him, coming through huge in the must-win BET game against West Virginia last year. He then played pretty darn well in the two NCAA tourney wins. Has played well many, many times this season, too.

He is not a star and he has a few too many games like last night for my liking, but he is capable of playing quite well, as my first paragraph noted.

We start 3 guards. They combined for 20 turnovers. Bilas repeatedly asked why our guards kept trying to dribble through traffic, and I asked the same thing. If Junior, Vander and DJO only commit 10 turnovers -- still too many, but at least not catastrophic -- we probably win that game.

Junior needs to play better. But the bottom line is that he is the point guard and he is going to continue to be the point guard. If that causes you too much consternation, I recommend rooting for superstars like Wayns and Siva instead.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

GGGG

Vander had 6 TOs.  Two on charges.  One on the aforementioned travel.  One on when he slipped on the stupid Dave Gavitt logo.  And two others.

I did notice that when Vander was guarding Siva, he did a much better job keeping him out of the lane than Junior did.  Junior might as well have been holding a red cape out there.

Aughnanure

Anyone else more worried about Wilson than Cadougan? Cadougan is solid and will be fine, maybe just playing in MSG got in his head. But Cadougan will be a senior next year, and we have no incoming PGs in 2012 0r 2013 as of right now. Meaning all we'll have is Wilson. And as much as you can rip on Cadougan last night - it sure says something that Buzz didn't really pull him for Wilson after any of his out-of-this-world dumb plays.

Here's hoping Vander or TJ Taylor can figure out how to become pgs, because we're seriously going to AT LEAST need some depth soon.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

MUMac

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 09, 2012, 08:53:16 AM
Vander had 6 TOs.  Two on charges.  One on the aforementioned travel.  One on when he slipped on the stupid Dave Gavitt logo.  And two others.

I did notice that when Vander was guarding Siva, he did a much better job keeping him out of the lane than Junior did.  Junior might as well have been holding a red cape out there.
Forgot about the logo slip.  Credit those TO's to the BE. 

JTBMU7

JC had a bad half, not a bag game. he came back pretty strong in the second and showed confidence, that's impressive given his horrible 1st.

he's a fighter and he/we will be fine.

brewcity77

Quote from: Aughnanure on March 09, 2012, 08:55:54 AMHere's hoping Vander or TJ Taylor can figure out how to become pgs, because we're seriously going to AT LEAST need some depth soon.

I feel fine about Vander taking over the point as a senior. He may not be a perfect point yet, but he didn't have to play that role this year. He averaged 2.8 apg and had a 1.3 A/T ratio. Give him another year to prep for the role and he'll be fine. And remember, Wilson is a freshman. A freshman who has averaged more assists, more points, and more minutes than Junior did as a freshman. I realize there was the injury, but Derrick has a lot of time before he has to take that role. I wouldn't worry about him just yet, especially since we have a number of schollies open for 2014 before he'd ever have to start.
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Canadian Dimes

Quote from: MUMac on March 09, 2012, 08:22:13 AM
Many of DJO's and Vander's TO's came late when they were pressing.  Vander had two on charges and one on the travel with a difficult, and long, outlet on the break.  Caught it in traffic and travelled.

He also slipped on a decal once and had his other two turnovers when he was forced to play point because our coach could not play junior.  How many times did vander throw the ball into the seats??? Compared to jr.?

GGGG

Quote from: Aughnanure on March 09, 2012, 08:55:54 AM
Anyone else more worried about Wilson than Cadougan? Cadougan is solid and will be fine, maybe just playing in MSG got in his head. But Cadougan will be a senior next year, and we have no incoming PGs in 2012 0r 2013 as of right now. Meaning all we'll have is Wilson. And as much as you can rip on Cadougan last night - it sure says something that Buzz didn't really pull him for Wilson after any of his out-of-this-world dumb plays.

Here's hoping Vander or TJ Taylor can figure out how to become pgs, because we're seriously going to AT LEAST need some depth soon.


I'm not worried about Wilson...yet.  He's a freshman.  We have a thread where everyone is excited over Juan's minutes, but Wilson played better..and has been better most of the year.  We will see what happens next year.

Aughnanure

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 09, 2012, 09:15:35 AM

I'm not worried about Wilson...yet.  He's a freshman.  We have a thread where everyone is excited over Juan's minutes, but Wilson played better..and has been better most of the year.  We will see what happens next year.

Defensively I'm not worried. But just watching this team on offense lately when he's in the game (especially the WVU game when he was in for a full half) made me worried. His ball handling was specifically troublesome, but you're probably right - a freshmen getting used to the pace and physicality of the big east, probably a little timid in his play which gets him trapped a lot..
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

MUfan12

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 09, 2012, 06:06:32 AM
Stats don't tell the entire story. Cadougan is a defensive liability, has a loose handle, is slow, has questionable decision making abiltiy, is an erratic passer, and is a poor shooter from anywhere outside of 6 feet. Again, I can't see what Buzz saw in this guy.

But he's got an incredible story and Buzz will roll with that cat any day. Even rolling right out of the postseason.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

I have calmed down, but I still hate all the ragging on Jr. Junior is our facilitator, and without him, we're not nearly as good, as yesterday clearly showcased. He had an awful game, for whatever reason. But I am ready to move on, as should all of you. Junior is our PG, and he's a damn good one. He just got caught up in the bright lights of NYC. I expect him to have a huge couple games next weekend and bring the boys back to the Sweet 16. In the end, that's all that matters. Only 6 teams (power conferences) don't end their conference season on loses. We were likely a 3 seed whether we took home the Big East trophy or not. Huge bummer of a loss, but hardly catastrophic.

Now Junior, figure your sh!t out. And Davante, keep working on that knee. We're going to need you to be significantly more mobile than you were last night.
Quote from: Goose on February 09, 2017, 11:06:04 AM
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

Stretchdeltsig

Jr. was outplayed by a more athletic point guard.  He looked a step slow with slow passes and high dribbles.  He was simply off.  Buzz should have sat Jr. down more.  Agree that we do need a more athletic point guard.  No question.

Boone

I'm worried about present and future point guard play. Junior is our starting 5's weak link and D. Wilson hasn't shown any vision with his passes or ability to break down a D and get into the lane. Let's face it. He's a caretaker point guard. That's it. The offense stagnates with him in the game. We desperately need a PG in the class of '13.

strotty

It's funny when a player's first 31 games go right out the window when analyzing his play.

He has had less than four assists TWICE in Big East play, and over the last three weeks his defense had been very solid. Think Maalik Wayns, Vincent Council and Jordan Theodore.

He had a game to forget. That's it.

Canadian Dimes

Quote from: JTBMU7 on March 09, 2012, 09:04:32 AM
JC had a bad half, not a bag game. he came back pretty strong in the second and showed confidence, that's impressive given his horrible 1st.

he's a fighter and he/we will be fine.

NO JUnior had a terrible game.  Just less terrible in the second half.  I will guess u have forgotten the down 4 and we get a steal and Junior proceeds to throw the out let pass to Pitino?    How about the fast break late where he fired a95 mph fast ball to Jmail from 3 feet away.  

Just becuase he was not as horrible lets not get carried away and say he had a good half.  

Bottom line is Junior has been very bad a lot this year, he has been a big part of the cause of many of our poor starts.  More often than not he has at least one terrible half a game.  When Junior is terrible it makes our ability to win that much harder.  

he is a big liablilty at a really importnat position.  We have been able to over come him this year.  Worst MU PG in 20 years.  Very concerned about next year when we need senior leadership and a steady hand at the PG

GOMU85

Quote from: Canadian Dimes on March 09, 2012, 09:51:25 AM

he is a big liablilty at a really importnat position.  We have been able to over come him this year.  Worst MU PG in 20 years.  Very concerned about next year when we need senior leadership and a steady hand at the PG

+100000

Hoopaloop

Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 08, 2012, 08:42:34 PM
Just got back from the Peyton Siva game.  We allowed him to do what he wanted the whole game. Blue should have been guarding him the whole game. We were outplayed, outhustled and outCOACHED!

Buzz admitted that as well.  A lot of blame here with the players, almost none on the coach which is not all surprising.  Not Buzz's best day either, but we have a week to regroup.
"Since you asked, since you pretend to know why I'm not posting here anymore, let me make this as clear as I can for you Ners.  You are the reason I'm not posting here anymore."   BMA725  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=28095.msg324636#msg324636

Hoopaloop

Quote from: Canadian Dimes on March 09, 2012, 09:51:25 AM


he is a big liablilty at a really importnat position.  We have been able to over come him this year.  Worst MU PG in 20 years.  Very concerned about next year when we need senior leadership and a steady hand at the PG

Without question.  Maybe you should change your name to get him motivated.   :P
"Since you asked, since you pretend to know why I'm not posting here anymore, let me make this as clear as I can for you Ners.  You are the reason I'm not posting here anymore."   BMA725  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=28095.msg324636#msg324636