dr. mcguire, umm, "opts" out of debate

[wyzgy]

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2012/02/deniel-maguire-back-out-of-campus.html

i believe this would have been a pay per view event.  what better educational experience could you have than 2 scholars duking it out over a very polarizing issue of our time?  dr. maguire has been very outspoken on this issue of abortion and coming from a catholic institution makes it all the more interesting.  it is ironic that the pro-abortion stance would be coming from a theology professor of a jesuit school while the pro-life stance from dr. mike adams of unc-willmington-a state school.  i have a funny feeling dr. maguire was more worried about having his arse handed back to him here than supporting his views and standing up for them.

[Ari Gold]

McGuire is a kitten

[wyzgy]

this must be real "hot potato"  there could not have been a better venue to have an academic debate on the abortion issue than right at marquette.  what a fascinating and polarizing topic that could have been the "super bowl" of exchange of ideas back and forth.  isn't that what academia is?  it doesn't have to be devisive and those in disagreement do not have to get nasty about opposing views, but unfortunately/in reality it is a very emotional topic.  i was looking foward to following this.  is dr. adams still going to be speaking here?  

[wyzgy]

McGuire is a kitten

i thought he was an ex-priest??

[GGGG]

I think it was pretty obvious that the College Republicans were setting up Maguire here....and I think he knew it.  He has been the target of conservative student groups on campus for decades, and he is going to debate a conservative professor, and columnist, at a Catholic school at a debate sponsored by the College Republicans?

I really doubt the students had an academic back-and-forth in mind when they set this up. 

[wyzgy]

I think it was pretty obvious that the College Republicans were setting up Maguire here....and I think he knew it.  He has been the target of conservative student groups on campus for decades, and he is going to debate a conservative professor, and columnist, at a Catholic school at a debate sponsored by the College Republicans?

I really doubt the students had an academic back-and-forth in mind when they set this up. 

what other venue would you propose then to debate this issue?  maguire would have home-field advantage.  would maguire rather debate gloria stI have a toothachem or janeane garafolo?  this shouldn't be about "targets".  this should be about exchanges of ideas.  some may change their minds either way or fortify existing beliefs.  but isn't this what universities should be promoting-not one side or the other, but throwing it out there and allowing students to think for themselves. 
   as for what the conservative students had in mind...ask them, but do not assume.  just because it's a "conservative group"  doesn't mean it's all bad, does it?  seems the liberals always get their way

[GGGG]

what other venue would you propose then to debate this issue?  maguire would have home-field advantage.  would maguire rather debate gloria stI have a toothachem or janeane garafolo?  this shouldn't be about "targets".  this should be about exchanges of ideas.  some may change their minds either way or fortify existing beliefs.  but isn't this what universities should be promoting-not one side or the other, but throwing it out there and allowing students to think for themselves. 
   as for what the conservative students had in mind...ask them, but do not assume.  just because it's a "conservative group"  doesn't mean it's all bad, does it?  seems the liberals always get their way

This is such a jumble of thoughts I don't know where to begin. 

First, the only reason I brought up "conservative student group" is because that's what they are.  I never said they were evil, and frankly I would say the same thing if it were a Democratic group and it was a liberal issue.

Second, I completely agree with you regarding a free exchange of ideas and a back and forth.  But it has to be a little better than this.  I can see where Maguire is coming from...having a conservative political science professor debate a liberal theologian on "abortion" isn't really well thought out.

Having two political science professors debate "The Constitution and Abortion," or having two theologians debate "Can you be both Christian and Pro-Choice?" makes sense.

So at best I think this was a poor effort by the student group...at worst I think it was a set-up.

[MUBurrow]

The main thing I didn't get is how McAdams first notes that McGuire has debated his abortion position and been on multiple panels then goes on to suggest that McGuire's afraid to debate his abortion position and be on panels.  And the notion that McGuire is rightfully insinuated by this sentence...

Could it be that people who have lived too long in a left / liberal / politically correct cocoon (as most college faculty have) simply lack the self-confidence to mix it up with somebody who doesn’t buy the assumptions of their culture?

... is an absolute joke. People have called for the guy's head because of his positions on the issues forever, and while he might be popular with students and other faculty, to say that he's been a cocoon of his own ideas couldn't be further from the truth. He's stuck out like a sore thumb at MU.

[wyzgy]

o.k. bottom line, i just thought there could not be a better venue than an academic institution to have this debate.  where else would you want to see it?  on a street corner?  on pbs?  i mean this would have been the tits!

[GGGG]

o.k. bottom line, i just thought there could not be a better venue than an academic institution to have this debate.  where else would you want to see it?  on a street corner?  on pbs?  i mean this would have been the tits!

Agreed.  And it happens all the time.

[MUBurrow]

o.k. bottom line, i just thought there could not be a better venue than an academic institution to have this debate.  where else would you want to see it?  on a street corner?  on pbs?  i mean this would have been the tits!

im with you - disappointed it didnt work out

[Buzzin]

I can see where Maguire is coming from...having a conservative political science professor debate a liberal theologian on "abortion" isn't really well thought out

I don't understand. Aren't debates supposed to be opposite sides against each other? And if you are trying to say that a theology professor should not debate a criminology professor than why did Maguire debate a law school professor about the death penalty? I think that a law school professor and a criminology professor are pretty close in discipline. I think this is very well thought out. It does not matter what perspective of expertise you come from. These guys are intellectuals who should be well-rounded in all areas anyways.

[GGGG]

I don't understand. Aren't debates supposed to be opposite sides against each other?

What was the topic supposed to be?  And don't say "abortion," because that's not really a topic.  "Is abortion a Constitutional right?" is a topic. 

[ringout]

I agree with Dr. Maguire on a few issues, disgree with him on many.  I think a Marquette education should include the debates he brings.

Having said that, not sure why it is a setup.  I'm not saying it's not. 

Sultan, do you know something about the format that leads you to this conclusion?

[GGGG]

I agree with Dr. Maguire on a few issues, disgree with him on many.  I think a Marquette education should include the debates he brings.

Having said that, not sure why it is a setup.  I'm not saying it's not. 

Sultan, do you know something about the format that leads you to this conclusion?

Just what I wrote above...

[Coleman]

This is such a jumble of thoughts I don't know where to begin.  

First, the only reason I brought up "conservative student group" is because that's what they are.  I never said they were evil, and frankly I would say the same thing if it were a Democratic group and it was a liberal issue.

Second, I completely agree with you regarding a free exchange of ideas and a back and forth.  But it has to be a little better than this.  I can see where Maguire is coming from...having a conservative political science professor debate a liberal theologian on "abortion" isn't really well thought out.

Having two political science professors debate "The Constitution and Abortion," or having two theologians debate "Can you be both Christian and Pro-Choice?" makes sense.

So at best I think this was a poor effort by the student group...at worst I think it was a set-up.

+1. Well said. I don't really know what is gained by live "debate" anyway. That's not the traditional stage of academia. Academia is about "back and forth" but usually this dialogue is in publications responding to others' view points, critiquing and building on them, not rapid-fire made-for-TV events. Intellectuals take time to develop ideas. 30 second sound bites don't really do them justice. And then it becomes more about who is the quicker/better speaker. I could see that being a set-up, since Maguire is in his 80s, and is already a pretty soft-spoken and quiet guy by nature (I had class with him). His views may be bold, but I could see him not getting a chance to adequately develop or expound his ideas in live debate.

Plus, Maguire has tons of books. I'm sure the other guy does too. Read them, decide on their merits whose argument is more logical. Why do you need a live debate to evaluate their arguments?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Don't get the "set up" argument.  Many academic institutions have debates and just because a certain group attempts to bring the two together on a controversial topic doesn't make this anything but possibly a lively debate. Set ups are George Stephanopolis asking the contraception question ahead of the political action to force Catholic institutions to fund it, knowing it would be a hot potatoe in the near future.

[Skatastrophy]

It's disappointing that the college republicans (and american politics in general) focus on social hot-button issues instead of economic issues.

I think that abortions should be mandatory.  Babies are irritating.

[wyzgy]

It's disappointing that the college republicans (and american politics in general) focus on social hot-button issues instead of economic issues.

I think that abortions should be mandatory.  Babies are irritating.

so there.  no more debates cuz there stupid

[Ari Gold]

I like the effort CRs put into this and it's too bad it didn't come together. The reason the CRs went after McGuire is because he's by far the most outspoken Pro-Choice person at MU while McAdams is the campus' leading conservative. Admittedly CRs go to the McAdams well more than necessary sometimes but  Thats the type of person a student group should go after in a debate.

CRs are winning the PR battle. They're really making McGuire look like a bitch.

I remember when CDs and CRs got together in 2006 to debate the issues around Gay Marriage. It worked out pretty well and that debate was between an academic (Wolfe) and the head of whatever that gay group was... guessing Mike Tate from Fair Wisconsin.

[reinko]

I like the effort CRs put into this and it's too bad it didn't come together. The reason the CRs went after McGuire is because he's by far the most outspoken Pro-Choice person at MU while McAdams is the campus' leading conservative. Admittedly CRs go to the McAdams well more than necessary sometimes but  Thats the type of person a student group should go after in a debate.

CRs are winning the PR battle. They're really making McGuire look like a bitch.

I remember when CDs and CRs got together in 2006 to debate the issues around Gay Marriage. It worked out pretty well and that debate was between an academic (Wolfe) and the head of whatever that gay group was... guessing Mike Tate from Fair Wisconsin.

This debate was not setup with McAdams, but with another professor, Mike Adams.  Reading is important Ari.