what UCONN fans are saying about the upcoming MU game

[Canadian Dimes]

HOW IS THIS FOR TIMING!!!!   

http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/pages/listgallery?gid=16724&gf=542


expect to see comments from Chicos and Hoopaloop taking the writer to task for "obviously" over looking Tommy NAismith.

[copious1218]

Imagine that . . . another Buzz v. Crean thread.  Any chance anyone has some insight on "what UCONN fans are saying about the upcoming MU game"?  You know, the title of this thread.

[MUMac]

Imagine that . . . another Buzz v. Crean thread.  Any chance anyone has some insight on "what UCONN fans are saying about the upcoming MU game"?  You know, the title of this thread.

You can probably find it on their board, if you like.

[The Equalizer]

This is where your credibility in the argument is lost.

1. We have two big men in street clothes and still second in the Big East, big testament to our depth.

Its not not a testament of depth when the response to losing players to injuries is to shorten the rotation and play fewer guys more minutes each.

Our continued winning is a testament to the resiliency of the core rotation of Crowder, Blue, JWilson, Cadougan, DJO and Mayo--not because we were lucky enough to have Anderson, DWison or Jones to pick up Otule's and Gardner's 38 mpg off the bench.

In fact, it may surprise you to learn that Anderson, Wilson, and Jones have actually seen their average MPG decline since Otule and Gardner became injured.

I know this fact throws a monkey wrench into the oft-stated notion that only through the increased contribution from guys like Anderson, Jones and Wilson have we been able to weather the loss of two key players. 

2. Freshman Wilson has made more impact this season thus far than Trend ever had. Jones and Juan aren't far behind.

I know how much you want to believe this.  Trust me, I do.  But your wish does not fit with reality. When you actually comparing first year stats, Wilson is having a nearly identical impact as Trend.

MPG: 
Trend: 6.4  Wilson: 10.0

PPG:
Trend: 1.7  Wilson 0.8

RPG:
Trend: 1.4  Wilson 1.2

APG:
Trend 0.5  Wilson 0.7

BPG
Trend 0.4  Wilson 0.04

APG
Trend 0.3  Wilson 0.6

ToPG:
Trend 0.5  Wilson 0.3

Fouls per game
Trend: 0.6  Wilson 1.8

And lets be clear about something--I'm not arguing that Blackledge was superior to Jones, Anderson and Wilson.  I'm willing to admit that he was the last man on the depth chart.  At the same time, you can't make the claim that the end of our bench is having having any greater impact than Blackledge did. 

[copious1218]

You can probably find it on their board, if you like.

I'm sure I could.  The point was simply that it would be nice if I could also find it in a thread on MUScoop entitled "What UCONN fans are saying about the upcoming MU game."

But I'm sure you already knew what my point was.

[MUMac]

I'm sure I could.  The point was simply that it would be nice if I could also find it in a thread on MUScoop entitled "What UCONN fans are saying about the upcoming MU game."

But I'm sure you already knew what my point was.

Yes, your point was to complain about a thread changing.  Like that's never happenned before.  It was a nuanced, change, though, as the comments in the OP from the UCONN fans were directly attributed to the coaching criticism of Buzz.

I didn't see you add anything to the original topic, yet took it off in another direction again.  See the irony there?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

A lot of us popped in to see what UCONN fans were saying about the game. Tired of the Buzz-Crean discussions ,as if that's all some people know what to talk about. This discussion has gone on AD Nauseum.

[copious1218]

I didn't see you add anything to the original topic, yet took it off in another direction again.  See the irony there?

I do.  And I will attempt to practice what I am preaching by trying to steer the topic back.  Here is a link:  http://the-boneyard.com/threads/how-big-is-our-next-game.13695/

It appears after the Depaul game their fans are turning slightly more cautiously optimistic about this game than they were on Monday.  

If the team plays anything like their fans feel, it also appears many posters here are right and this is pretty close to a "must-win" for them.

[wadesworld]

Its not not a testament of depth when the response to losing players to injuries is to shorten the rotation and play fewer guys more minutes each.

Our continued winning is a testament to the resiliency of the core rotation of Crowder, Blue, JWilson, Cadougan, DJO and Mayo--not because we were lucky enough to have Anderson, DWison or Jones to pick up Otule's and Gardner's 38 mpg off the bench.

In fact, it may surprise you to learn that Anderson, Wilson, and Jones have actually seen their average MPG decline since Otule and Gardner became injured.

I know this fact throws a monkey wrench into the oft-stated notion that only through the increased contribution from guys like Anderson, Jones and Wilson have we been able to weather the loss of two key players. 

I know how much you want to believe this.  Trust me, I do.  But your wish does not fit with reality. When you actually comparing first year stats, Wilson is having a nearly identical impact as Trend.

MPG: 
Trend: 6.4  Wilson: 10.0

PPG:
Trend: 1.7  Wilson 0.8

RPG:
Trend: 1.4  Wilson 1.2

APG:
Trend 0.5  Wilson 0.7

BPG
Trend 0.4  Wilson 0.04

APG
Trend 0.3  Wilson 0.6

ToPG:
Trend 0.5  Wilson 0.3

Fouls per game
Trend: 0.6  Wilson 1.8

And lets be clear about something--I'm not arguing that Blackledge was superior to Jones, Anderson and Wilson.  I'm willing to admit that he was the last man on the depth chart.  At the same time, you can't make the claim that the end of our bench is having having any greater impact than Blackledge did. 

So their minutes have declined, but their production hasn't.  99% of Marquette fans thought Jamail Jones was a complete waste (including me) up utnil Gardner got injured.  Since then, he has stepped up and provided some decent production for us.  As a sophomore, there is definitely hope that he can contribute as a junior and senior.  Once again, Juan was hurt at the start of the season.  That is easily the most important time for a freshman.  You get game experience that becomes very valuable against teams that you aren't in over your head against.  Juan's opportunity to gain that experience became limited.  Keep ignoring that Derrick Wilson stepped up huge and shut down a Preseason All American in one of the most difficult buildings to win when our starting junior point guard was suspended for the game.  Did Trend ever contribute to a win?  I can't recall a time he did.  Remember with Crean when Travis Diener went down with an injury and we had no DEPTH so we had to have our CENTER, Markus Jackson, play point guard?  What a mess that was.  And again, when Crean had guys transfer out (Mason, Amo, Bradley, etc.) he brought guys like Trend in (as a junior...not a freshman) who belonged nowhere near the Big East.  When guys don't show up or transfer (Nick Williams, Tyshawn Taylor, Mbakwe, Christopherson, etc.) Crean brought transfers in like DJO, Butler, Crowder to fill their spots, guys who go to the NBA, not average 1.7 points and 1.4 rebounds per game.  But ignore that one too.

And once again, you love comparing apples to oranges.  Trend was a JUNIOR.  Derrick Wilson is a FRESHMAN.  There is a HUGE difference there.  If you want to go purely on statistics then good for you.  The statistics are close.  If you think that Trend had as big of an influence on games that Derrick Wilson does, then you either don't watch the games or know nothing about basketball.  In fact, the fact that you are trying to prove Trend was as good or had as much of an impact on Marquette's seasons as Derrick Wilson is having tells me you know nothing about basketball.  It's not even close.  Wilson comes in and harasses other team's point guards on defense while handling the ball and never turning it over.  Does he make plays and score a ton of points?  No.  But he knows his role is to play defense first and then not turn the ball over second, and he does that.  Trend was good for one highlight dunk and then about 8 blown defensive assignments and nothing more.

If you want to continue your apples to oranges comparisons I think anybody can play that game.  We could always compare Jae Crowder's first year in the program (Buzz's recruit - junior year) to Patrick Hazel's first year in the program (Crean's recruit - freshman year) and I could say "See!  Buzz has more depth than Crean!"  But what's the point?  That comparison is a complete joke of a comparison and I know it.  You should probably realize comparing Derrick Wilson to Trend Blackledge is a joke too, although they are similar so you are proving my point...the juniors on Crean's teams provided less than the freshmen on Buzz's teams.

[hairy worthen]

Its not not a testament of depth when the response to losing players to injuries is to shorten the rotation and play fewer guys more minutes each.

Our continued winning is a testament to the resiliency of the core rotation of Crowder, Blue, JWilson, Cadougan, DJO and Mayo--not because we were lucky enough to have Anderson, DWison or Jones to pick up Otule's and Gardner's 38 mpg off the bench.

In fact, it may surprise you to learn that Anderson, Wilson, and Jones have actually seen their average MPG decline since Otule and Gardner became injured.

I know this fact throws a monkey wrench into the oft-stated notion that only through the increased contribution from guys like Anderson, Jones and Wilson have we been able to weather the loss of two key players. 

I know how much you want to believe this.  Trust me, I do.  But your wish does not fit with reality. When you actually comparing first year stats, Wilson is having a nearly identical impact as Trend.

MPG: 
Trend: 6.4  Wilson: 10.0

PPG:
Trend: 1.7  Wilson 0.8

RPG:
Trend: 1.4  Wilson 1.2

APG:
Trend 0.5  Wilson 0.7

BPG
Trend 0.4  Wilson 0.04

APG
Trend 0.3  Wilson 0.6

ToPG:
Trend 0.5  Wilson 0.3

Fouls per game
Trend: 0.6  Wilson 1.8

And lets be clear about something--I'm not arguing that Blackledge was superior to Jones, Anderson and Wilson.  I'm willing to admit that he was the last man on the depth chart.  At the same time, you can't make the claim that the end of our bench is having having any greater impact than Blackledge did. 

Are you mu84's niece?

[MUMac]

I do.  And I will attempt to practice what I am preaching by trying to steer the topic back.  Here is a link:  http://the-boneyard.com/threads/how-big-is-our-next-game.13695/

It will be interesting to see if their fans show up tomorrow.  And, how loud they will be.

Tough coming off of a National Championship year to fall back to the middle of the pack.  Especially when originally picked to be with Cuse atop the conference.  

Hopefully MU can turn them over - they have typically been prone to that.  It seems the d, as of late, is what jump starts the o.

[swoopem]

The Equalizer: your post have got to be some of the dumbest I've read on this board in some time. There is not even a question as to who has a deeper team, its Buzz. Bringing up Trend's stats compared to D. Wilson's does nothing to solve the argument, the argument is won because the players that Buzz has make each other better in PRACTICE everyday. That is where you want your best competition to occur. Every guy on our roster can ball and they bring the best out of each other which is what you want. There is no way your going to tell me that Trend or Jamil Lott was making Ous better, however Jamail and Juan are absolutly making Jamil better and they are all out of position.

This roster is extremly deep and maybe you don't see it on game day, but if you knew what you were taling about you would not have questioned it in the first place. We are ranked 12th right not because of how we practice and the way our players battle each other day in day out. Creans roster's fell off after 7 guys, that doesn't happen with a Buzz team.

Any interview you see with the players some reported will ask "wow you guys really had to fight and claw to get back into that game, how did you do it" the answer with every player is "thats just the way we practice"

[Lennys Tap]

Are you mu84's niece?

Pay the man, Shirley. Hoop will be happy to have him/her back.

[The Equalizer]

So their minutes have declined, but their production hasn't.  99% of Marquette fans thought Jamail Jones was a complete waste (including me) up utnil Gardner got injured.  Since then, he has stepped up and provided some decent production for us.  As a sophomore, there is definitely hope that he can contribute as a junior and senior.  Once again, Juan was hurt at the start of the season.  That is easily the most important time for a freshman.  You get game experience that becomes very valuable against teams that you aren't in over your head against.  Juan's opportunity to gain that experience became limited.  Keep ignoring that Derrick Wilson stepped up huge and shut down a Preseason All American in one of the most difficult buildings to win when our starting junior point guard was suspended for the game.  Did Trend ever contribute to a win?  I can't recall a time he did.  Remember with Crean when Travis Diener went down with an injury and we had no DEPTH so we had to have our CENTER, Markus Jackson, play point guard?  What a mess that was.  And again, when Crean had guys transfer out (Mason, Amo, Bradley, etc.) he brought guys like Trend in (as a junior...not a freshman) who belonged nowhere near the Big East.  When guys don't show up or transfer (Nick Williams, Tyshawn Taylor, Mbakwe, Christopherson, etc.) Crean brought transfers in like DJO, Butler, Crowder to fill their spots, guys who go to the NBA, not average 1.7 points and 1.4 rebounds per game.  But ignore that one too.

I sure hope Buzz himself isn't as thin skinned as you are.  It's not a criticism of him to say that he's recruiting is roughly the same level as Crean, but you're defending like there's no tomorrow.  Your need to ensure that Buzz is never equated to Crean borders on the pathological.

For example, I think you know damn well that Crean didn't backfill Mason, Amo or Bradley with Trend.  You know how easily it would be for someone to find the dates, post the sequence of LOIs signed and show that you were wrong. I suspect if I gave you more facts, you'd just shift to another irrelevancy--Buzz has nicer suits, Buzz hydrates himself more during games, Buzz sweats more proving how much he cares.  Whatever.   

If you wanted to join into an honest debate, you'd admit that when guys like Mason, Amo and Bradley left, Crean first brought in guys like Matthews, James, McNeal and Hayward to replace them--and only then did he bring in Trend because he had a 13th scholarship to fill.   

If you want to try once again to rebut me and suggest that Trend represented the typical level of recruit for Crean, go right ahead.  I know the truth.  I suspect you do as well.

If, on the other hand, you wanted to make the fundamentally honest statement that both coaches made some recruiting mistakes, and both subsequently replaced them with better players--I'd be happy to agree with you on that statement.

Look, my comments started when I pointed out that Buzz has not proven yet that he can recruit better players than Crean was able to recruit.  Both coach's recruits match up pretty much the same--both rating and actual performance--from top to bottom. 

You've pulled every argument in the book to avoid the obvious: The original statement was absolutely correct.  Buzz hasn't been able to land Quincy Miller or Kris Dunn or Mitch McGary, or Branden Dawsen, or Tobias Harris or Joe Jackson, etc.

I don't understand your need to pretend those aren't great players, as if one has to defend Buzz from the mere observation that he tried but didn't land them.

I truly hope that Buzz can pull in a top 10 guy.  I really do.  But my need to defend Buzz at all costs isn't going to get me to pretend alongside you that some guy ranked outside the top 100 is really just as good as Kevon Looney or Tyus Jones.

[The Equalizer]

The Equalizer: your post have got to be some of the dumbest I've read on this board in some time. There is not even a question as to who has a deeper team, its Buzz. Bringing up Trend's stats compared to D. Wilson's does nothing to solve the argument, the argument is won because the players that Buzz has make each other better in PRACTICE everyday.

That is where you want your best competition to occur. Every guy on our roster can ball and they bring the best out of each other which is what you want. There is no way your going to tell me that Trend or Jamil Lott was making Ous better, however Jamail and Juan are absolutly making Jamil better and they are all out of position.

This roster is extremly deep and maybe you don't see it on game day, but if you knew what you were taling about you would not have questioned it in the first place. We are ranked 12th right not because of how we practice and the way our players battle each other day in day out. Creans roster's fell off after 7 guys, that doesn't happen with a Buzz team.

Any interview you see with the players some reported will ask "wow you guys really had to fight and claw to get back into that game, how did you do it" the answer with every player is "thats just the way we practice"

Well let's compare 2008 with 2012, since both years we had two players who were injured:  Mbakwe and Christopherson in 2008;  Gardner and Otule in 2012

Oh, and please, don't start with the "Not fair, Gardner and Otule were more important."  I don't dispute that. 

I dispute the argument that we had more depth once they became injured:

2008 MPG/2012 MPG
1.  Dominc James 30.2 / DJO 32.4
2.  Jerel McNeal 30.2 / Jae Crowder 31.8
3.  Wesley Matthews 28.9 / Junior Cadougan 28.1
4.  Lazar Hayward 25.4 / Vander Blue 25.6
5.  Ousmane Barro 19.9 / Jamil Wilson 22.2
6.  David Cubillan 17.6 / Todd Mayo 20.9
7.  Dan Fitzgerald 14.3 / Derick Wilson / 10.0I
8.  Maurice Acker 13.3 / Jamail Jones 9.3
9. Dwight Burke 11.8 / Juan Anderson 4.8
10 Lawrence Blackledge 6.7 / ---
11. Patrick Hazel 3.4 / ---

I'm sorry, but I don't see where you can make the argument that we are deeper now then we were in 2008.  The facts just don't support it.

I don't get your comment about practice is where depth is demonstrated, since I'm pretty sure the 2008 team practiced as well--using the same players that appeared in the games.

[wadesworld]

I sure hope Buzz himself isn't as thin skinned as you are.  It's not a criticism of him to say that he's recruiting is roughly the same level as Crean, but you're defending like there's no tomorrow.  Your need to ensure that Buzz is never equated to Crean borders on the pathological.

For example, I think you know damn well that Crean didn't backfill Mason, Amo or Bradley with Trend.  You know how easily it would be for someone to find the dates, post the sequence of LOIs signed and show that you were wrong. I suspect if I gave you more facts, you'd just shift to another irrelevancy--Buzz has nicer suits, Buzz hydrates himself more during games, Buzz sweats more proving how much he cares.  Whatever.    

If you wanted to join into an honest debate, you'd admit that when guys like Mason, Amo and Bradley left, Crean first brought in guys like Matthews, James, McNeal and Hayward to replace them--and only then did he bring in Trend because he had a 13th scholarship to fill.  

If you want to try once again to rebut me and suggest that Trend represented the typical level of recruit for Crean, go right ahead.  I know the truth.  I suspect you do as well.

If, on the other hand, you wanted to make the fundamentally honest statement that both coaches made some recruiting mistakes, and both subsequently replaced them with better players--I'd be happy to agree with you on that statement.

Look, my comments started when I pointed out that Buzz has not proven yet that he can recruit better players than Crean was able to recruit.  Both coach's recruits match up pretty much the same--both rating and actual performance--from top to bottom.  

You've pulled every argument in the book to avoid the obvious: The original statement was absolutely correct.  Buzz hasn't been able to land Quincy Miller or Kris Dunn or Mitch McGary, or Branden Dawsen, or Tobias Harris or Joe Jackson, etc.

I don't understand your need to pretend those aren't great players, as if one has to defend Buzz from the mere observation that he tried but didn't land them.

I truly hope that Buzz can pull in a top 10 guy.  I really do.  But my need to defend Buzz at all costs isn't going to get me to pretend alongside you that some guy ranked outside the top 100 is really just as good as Kevon Looney or Tyus Jones.

. Go look at my post history. I defend Crean when people make ridiculous comments about Crean and his (lack of) influence on Marquette. I think Crean was a slimeball, self-centered prick, but that does not mean I don't appreciate what he brought to the program and the results he posted. In no way am I a blind appologist for Buzz Williams, either. You can go back further into my post history to see evidence of that. I have complained about his use of offense-defense substitutions for entire games, the lack of continuity due to transfers, etc. but Buzz has, in my opinion, improved immensely in every aspect of a high-major division 1 basketball coach, so I am finding less and less reasons to complain about Buzz and the things he does.

To me, depth does not have to do with minutes played in games. It has to do with the basketball ability of every player on the team. Just because a team like maybe Southeast Missouri State or something plays a bunch of guys all for a good amount of minutes does not mean they have a roster deep on talent. Just because a guy like JP Tokoto is going to be at UNC next year and may only see 5 mpg in important games does not mean he is not a talented basketball player. You seem to think that is what it suggests. For me, I watch the games and see that the players who are playing are consistently much better as an entire team than when Crean was here.

So Crean brought in the Big 3 when Bradley, Mason, and Amo left? Weird. Those 3 all left in different years, and the Big 3 all came in together. The point is, when Buzz has made mistakes on offering a sholarship to players who were not good enough, he realizes it within a year and upgrades the talent (Mbao, Roseboro). When Crean did it, he kept those guys around for no reason at all.

Buzz has not had any 19-12 NIT years (in Conference USA, no less). Buzz hasn't yet, but he has had some of Crean's guys on the team in his first couple years. The thing is, as more of Crean's recruits have exited and Buzz gets his own recruits in, Marquette has steadily improved. Sweet Sixteen last year, hopefully that or better this year and years to come.

You can list statistics. I will actually watch the games and realize that there are far better basketball players on this year's team from top to bottom than Crean typically had.

You still haven't explained the incredible depth Crean had in the program when Diener got hurt and the almighty Markus Jackson, our center, had to play point guard for us. Do you think that incredible depth would happen with Buzz? I, for one, don't. I'd take Cadougan, D Wil, J Wil, Vander, Todd, DJO, Jae, Jamail, and Juan running the point over Markus Jackson (and since he was also our starting center, I'd take Otule, Gardner, JWil, and even Crowder over Jackson at center. Not that Jackson was a bad 5. Just a testament to the DEPTH Buzz has brought in).

[The Equalizer]

. Go look at my post history. I defend Crean when people make ridiculous comments about Crean and his (lack of) influence on Marquette. I think Crean was a slimeball, self-centered prick, but that does not mean I don't appreciate what he brought to the program and the results he posted. In no way am I a blind appologist for Buzz Williams, either. You can go back further into my post history to see evidence of that. I have complained about his use of offense-defense substitutions for entire games, the lack of continuity due to transfers, etc. but Buzz has, in my opinion, improved immensely in every aspect of a high-major division 1 basketball coach, so I am finding less and less reasons to complain about Buzz and the things he does.

You'll note that I'm not complaining about Buzz either.  I'm merely pointing out that he hasn't landed those elusive top 30 players that Crean wasn't able to land either.

Had you simply said--"You're right.  I agree with you in the hope that Buzz can turn that around with some of the top 25 guys from 2014 he's recruiting.  I wouldn't want him to grow frustrated and think he has to go elsewhere to land those better players."  this whole thread would have been much easier, friendly discussion.

To me, depth does not have to do with minutes played in games. It has to do with the basketball ability of every player on the team. Just because a team like maybe Southeast Missouri State or something plays a bunch of guys all for a good amount of minutes does not mean they have a roster deep on talent. Just because a guy like JP Tokoto is going to be at UNC next year and may only see 5 mpg in important games does not mean he is not a talented basketball player. You seem to think that is what it suggests. For me, I watch the games and see that the players who are playing are consistently much better as an entire team than when Crean was here.

Well this is the difference in our thinking.  Depth to me means you have players who are either part of the primary rotation, or who can be counted on to increase their minutes when you need them to due to injury.

Your argument is that if that you watch a guy who gets token or spot minutes this year, and he's better (in ways that don't show up in the stat sheet) than the 12th man on the roster who got the spot or token minutes five years ago, well that makes us deep.

I would agree that our team was deep if Anderson, Jones, and Wilson each picked up 8 to 10 minutes of the 38 combined minutes made available when Otule and Gardner became injured.  

I can't say that we're deep when in the face of 38 new mpg available, three players see their contribution actually go down.

So Crean brought in the Big 3 when Bradley, Mason, and Amo left? Weird. Those 3 all left in different years, and the Big 3 all came in together. The point is, when Buzz has made mistakes on offering a sholarship to players who were not good enough, he realizes it within a year and upgrades the talent (Mbao, Roseboro). When Crean did it, he kept those guys around for no reason at all.

Weird.  In your last post, you said Crean brought in Blackledge in response to Bradley, Mason and Amo leaving.  

When I pointed out we landed the Amigos and Hayward before taking Trend, now all of a sudden, you're concerned about matching scholarships?

Buzz has not had any 19-12 NIT years (in Conference USA, no less). Buzz hasn't yet, but he has had some of Crean's guys on the team in his first couple years. The thing is, as more of Crean's recruits have exited and Buzz gets his own recruits in, Marquette has steadily improved. Sweet Sixteen last year, hopefully that or better this year and years to come.

Does this change the fact that Buzz hasn't landed any of those top 25 elite players that have so far eluded him?

Why are you so skittish about that simple statement that rather than just agree agree with my initial sentiment, you felt compelled in response to keep changing the subject to something bad about Crane?

You can list statistics. I will actually watch the games and realize that there are far better basketball players on this year's team from top to bottom than Crean typically had.

I'm not sure how you would define what Crean "typically" had, because each season was different (as were Buzz's seasons).  I'd put this year's team somewhere between Crean's best and worst teams.  Not as good as 2003.  Better than 2004.

You still haven't explained the incredible depth Crean had in the program when Diener got hurt and the almighty Markus Jackson, our center, had to play point guard for us. Do you think that incredible depth would happen with Buzz? I, for one, don't. I'd take Cadougan, D Wil, J Wil, Vander, Todd, DJO, Jae, Jamail, and Juan running the point over Markus Jackson (and since he was also our starting center, I'd take Otule, Gardner, JWil, and even Crowder over Jackson at center. Not that Jackson was a bad 5. Just a testament to the DEPTH Buzz has brought in).

What's to explain?  

I never claimed the 2004 team was deep.  
I never claimed that 2004 was deeper than this year's team.  

I said we are not deep this year.  And we aren't.  We have 2 empty roster spots, only 6 guys getting the bulk of the minutes, 2 getting nothing right now because they are  are injured, and 3 of them getting the type of minutes that Trend Blackledge got.  And that's in blowouts!   That's simply not a deep team.

As I said, we're continuing to win primarily because of DJO, Cadougan and Crowder, and increased contribution from Blue and JWilson.  

[ATL MU Warrior]

The Equalizer = Marquette84.  No doubt about it.  She's baaaaaacckkkk.  Hooray.   

[Hoopaloop]

HOW IS THIS FOR TIMING!!!!    

http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/pages/listgallery?gid=16724&gf=542


expect to see comments from Chicos and Hoopaloop taking the writer to task for "obviously" over looking Tommy NAismith.

I honestly don't know how you process things.  You rip on Purdue graduates but you make all of us with a Marquette degree shake their heads.

They list eight men in their top five.

Al McGuire
Dwyane Wade
Kevin O'Neill
Wes Matthews
Dominic James
Jerel McNeal
Bill Cords

You've been saying Crean had not one shred of responsibility.

Can you explain to me then how HALF OF THAT LIST came to Marquette \ associated to Marquette because of him?  No Crean, no Wade.  No Crean, no Matthews.  No Crean, no James.  No Crean, no McNeal.

Then let's add in that Bill Cords hired Crean.  So if Cords is one of the top 5 on that list and he hired Crean, then they are giving him the nod because of the hires he made.

So now we're up to 5 of the 8 mentioned.    

[Hoopaloop]

I wasn't privy to any of the discussions the Big East AD's had when they decided to add MU, Cincy, Louisville and DePaul, but those programs have a lot in common - solid basketball histories/tradition, good size urban markets, arenas with decent seating capacities. Two were basketball only, two had football. So all were good fits.

How much did our two most recent seasons (2 NCAA appearances and a FF) factor in? Well, DePaul was 25-32 with one 1st round NIT loss over that period and it didn't deter their acceptance.

Where does DePaul play basketball?  Which city?  What size television market is it?   Common sense.

[Hoopaloop]

They are saying that MU just beat us again followed by the question of whether they will host a NIT game or not

[MarquetteDano]

I find it very telling that just as we won a big game on the road against UConn we have posters who are defending Tom Crean, who hasn't been our coach for years.

I have nothing against Crean but you can tell who are true Marquette fans in this thread.

[MUFC9295]

You'll note that I'm not complaining about Buzz either.  I'm merely pointing out that he hasn't landed those elusive top 30 players that Crean wasn't able to land either.

Had you simply said--"You're right.  I agree with you in the hope that Buzz can turn that around with some of the top 25 guys from 2014 he's recruiting.  I wouldn't want him to grow frustrated and think he has to go elsewhere to land those better players."  this whole thread would have been much easier, friendly discussion.

Well this is the difference in our thinking.  Depth to me means you have players who are either part of the primary rotation, or who can be counted on to increase their minutes when you need them to due to injury.

Your argument is that if that you watch a guy who gets token or spot minutes this year, and he's better (in ways that don't show up in the stat sheet) than the 12th man on the roster who got the spot or token minutes five years ago, well that makes us deep.

I would agree that our team was deep if Anderson, Jones, and Wilson each picked up 8 to 10 minutes of the 38 combined minutes made available when Otule and Gardner became injured.  

I can't say that we're deep when in the face of 38 new mpg available, three players see their contribution actually go down.

Weird.  In your last post, you said Crean brought in Blackledge in response to Bradley, Mason and Amo leaving.  

When I pointed out we landed the Amigos and Hayward before taking Trend, now all of a sudden, you're concerned about matching scholarships?

Does this change the fact that Buzz hasn't landed any of those top 25 elite players that have so far eluded him?

Why are you so skittish about that simple statement that rather than just agree agree with my initial sentiment, you felt compelled in response to keep changing the subject to something bad about Crane?

I'm not sure how you would define what Crean "typically" had, because each season was different (as were Buzz's seasons).  I'd put this year's team somewhere between Crean's best and worst teams.  Not as good as 2003.  Better than 2004.


What's to explain?  

I never claimed the 2004 team was deep.  
I never claimed that 2004 was deeper than this year's team.  

I said we are not deep this year.  And we aren't.  We have 2 empty roster spots, only 6 guys getting the bulk of the minutes, 2 getting nothing right now because they are  are injured, and 3 of them getting the type of minutes that Trend Blackledge got.  And that's in blowouts!   That's simply not a deep team.

As I said, we're continuing to win primarily because of DJO, Cadougan and Crowder, and increased contribution from Blue and JWilson.  

Yawn. 

[real chili 83]

Quite the pissin' match on this thread.

[Hoopaloop]

I find it very telling that just as we won a big game on the road against UConn we have posters who are defending Tom Crean, who hasn't been our coach for years.

I have nothing against Crean but you can tell who are true Marquette fans in this thread.

You might want to look at the timing of the responses since they were all prior to the UCONN game win.

Of course, the random post or thread determining who is a bigger fan and what dictates fandom is always productive here.