what UCONN fans are saying about the upcoming MU game

[wadesworld]

    As with everyone, Buzz is a work in progress.   He has room to grow and learn.   But he is still the best thing that Crean ever did for MU. 

Debatable.

[dwaderoy2004]

I'm sure when he sees this he'll want to personally apologize. Check your inbox.

Lenny, do you just follow Hoopaloop thread to thread and rip him?  It's pretty annoying.

[tower912]

Debatable.

That's what we do on a message board.    If I were to list Crean's contributions to MU (and BTW, I was a fan and appreciate what he did) in order of importance it would be 1. Hire Buzz  2.   Land Wade.  3. Promote the hell out MU.    #2 led to the final 4, which was the capper of #3.    But if others see differently, I certainly won't blame them. 

[dwaderoy2004]

Land wade has to be #1.  That singular achievement led to the final four, the big east, increased exposure for MU, new facilities, and the hiring of buzz.

[MarsupialMadness]

Lenny, do you just follow Hoopaloop thread to thread and rip him?  It's pretty annoying.

+1

and i agree, land wade has to be #1.  everything since has stemmed from that.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

That's what we do on a message board.    If I were to list Crean's contributions to MU (and BTW, I was a fan and appreciate what he did) in order of importance it would be 1. Hire Buzz  2.   Land Wade.  3. Promote the hell out MU.    #2 led to the final 4, which was the capper of #3.    But if others see differently, I certainly won't blame them. 

I can't say what was more important between landing Wade and getting us into the Big East since Wade and that success was a contributing factor in getting into the Beast. But long term, the importance of Wade and his legacy is dwarfed in comparison with the ability to compete on a national level in the Beast year in and year out.

[leever]

I'm sure when he sees this he'll want to personally apologize. Check your inbox.

Lenny -

This is clearly your worst post ever!  Aside from annoying some of the other posters, you know perfectly well that Hoopaloop does not need to check his inbox for messages from Buzz.  Buzz has him on speed dial!

[Hoopaloop]

Debatable.

No kidding.  That guy that is on Sports Center every other night for the Miami Heat (Wade, not Lebron) is up there.  That Final Four banner is up there.  Guys by the name of Matthews, McNeal, James, Novak, Diener, Hayward are up there.  Never finishing worse than 5th in the first three years of the Big East and proving we belonged with the big boys.  People keep bringing up Western Michigan and ignoring this stuff?  Hate fuels a lot of things, I'm happy I don't live with that much hatred.

Some of our fans sometimes act like Wisconsin fans, but in reverse.  Wisconsin fans can't remember their dreadful history from 1940 to 1994 but some MU fans purposely ignore most of the 2000's because they don't like the guy who was calling the shots.  

[MattyWarrior]

Calhoun to miss at least next 3 games, proly come back for the tourny

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny, do you just follow Hoopaloop thread to thread and rip him?  It's pretty annoying.

No. Sorry my attempt at humor annoyed you.

If this was a rhetorical question please disregard the "no" part of my response.

[Dawson Rental]

Land wade has to be #1.  That singular achievement led to the final four, the big east, increased exposure for MU, new facilities, and the hiring of buzz.

I don't follow how landing Wade led to MU hiring Buzz.  I think that stating that without Wade, MU doesn't get a Big East invite is flat out wrong.  Wade = new facilities also seems to be an over reach to me.

[jmayer1]

I don't follow how landing Wade led to MU hiring Buzz.  I think that stating that without Wade, MU doesn't get a Big East invite is flat out wrong.  Wade = new facilities also seems to be an over reach to me.

No Wade could have meant no NCAA tourney appearances in TC's 1st 5 years. Would MU have got donations to build new facilities or get a Big East invite? Maybe, maybe not? Tough to say definitively one way or the other.

[dwaderoy2004]

No Wade could have meant no NCAA tourney appearances in TC's 1st 5 years. Would MU have got donations to build new facilities or get a Big East invite? Maybe, maybe not? Tough to say definitively one way or the other.

This.  More or less.  Without Wade and the accompanying final four, I don't think think we have the success necessary to garner a Big East invite or inspire massive donations to build the Al.  Look at how many new buildings were added to the campus in the years before the final four, and look how many we added just within the decade after.  Pretty clear correlation if you ask me.  As to Buzz, Crean may have been canned before he even had a chance to hire Buzz.  Or, without prior success, would Buzz have even wanted to be an assistant at MU?  Surely it's all speculative, but that's my take on it.

[wadesworld]

No kidding.  That guy that is on Sports Center every other night for the Miami Heat (Wade, not Lebron) is up there.  That Final Four banner is up there.  Guys by the name of Matthews, McNeal, James, Novak, Diener, Hayward are up there.  Never finishing worse than 5th in the first three years of the Big East and proving we belonged with the big boys.  People keep bringing up Western Michigan and ignoring this stuff?  Hate fuels a lot of things, I'm happy I don't live with that much hatred.

Some of our fans sometimes act like Wisconsin fans, but in reverse.  Wisconsin fans can't remember their dreadful history from 1940 to 1994 but some MU fans purposely ignore most of the 2000's because they don't like the guy who was calling the shots.  

Agreed.  And you didn't even mention the Big East, which might have been his biggest achievement.

As far as Wade leading to all of the things he got, whether that is right or not, who cares?  Does Wade come to Marquette if Tom Crean is not the coach?  Maybe he does as his options were limited due to his academic situation, but maybe he does not.  It seems to me that Wade seems to think Crean played at least a TINY part in his success considering he seems to continue to support Crean at Indiana and wears Indiana stuff as well.  Regardless, I hate Crean and hope he loses every single game at Indiana unless they are playing Wisconsin, but I am not naive enough to think the best thing he did for Marquette was get Buzz Williams to Marquette.  HE got us Wade, which means, even if Wade alone led us to the Final Four, which got us the Al and into the Big East, then HE (Crean) got us those things by bringing Wade in.  My guess is that if we never got into the Big East then Crean is probably still at Marquette and Marquette is nowhere near the program that it is today, even with the 2003 Final Four.  Conference USA just doesn't seem to draw recruits in like the Big East does.  So maybe Buzz doesn't even leave a head coaching position to become an assistant at a mid-major basketball school (what we probably would have been had the Big East taken, say, Memphis instead of Marquette).

In summary, regardless of whether you hate Crean and want to pretend that without Wade he would have never achieved anything at all (again, very debatable considering he got the Big 3, Novak before Wade was even Wade, Diener, etc...I know, I know, WADE was the reason those guys came, not Crean...I get it, which is why I'm saying this...), Crean got Marquette Wade, so whatever Wade got Marquette, Crean therefore got for Marquette.

Let's not put personal feelings in the way of giving credit where it is due.

[dwaderoy2004]

Agreed.  And you didn't even mention the Big East, which might have been his biggest achievement.

As far as Wade leading to all of the things he got, whether that is right or not, who cares?  Does Wade come to Marquette if Tom Crean is not the coach?  Maybe he does as his options were limited due to his academic situation, but maybe he does not.  It seems to me that Wade seems to think Crean played at least a TINY part in his success considering he seems to continue to support Crean at Indiana and wears Indiana stuff as well.  Regardless, I hate Crean and hope he loses every single game at Indiana unless they are playing Wisconsin, but I am not naive enough to think the best thing he did for Marquette was get Buzz Williams to Marquette.  HE got us Wade, which means, even if Wade alone led us to the Final Four, which got us the Al and into the Big East, then HE (Crean) got us those things by bringing Wade in.  My guess is that if we never got into the Big East then Crean is probably still at Marquette and Marquette is nowhere near the program that it is today, even with the 2003 Final Four.  Conference USA just doesn't seem to draw recruits in like the Big East does.  So maybe Buzz doesn't even leave a head coaching position to become an assistant at a mid-major basketball school (what we probably would have been had the Big East taken, say, Memphis instead of Marquette).

In summary, regardless of whether you hate Crean and want to pretend that without Wade he would have never achieved anything at all (again, very debatable considering he got the Big 3, Novak before Wade was even Wade, Diener, etc...I know, I know, WADE was the reason those guys came, not Crean...I get it, which is why I'm saying this...), Crean got Marquette Wade, so whatever Wade got Marquette, Crean therefore got for Marquette.

Let's not put personal feelings in the way of giving credit where it is due.

Not sure if this was directed at me, but it shouldn't be.  I just think landing wade was Crean's greatest achievement because everything else seemed to stem from that.  I give Crean all the credit in the world for what he accomplished at MU and don't blame him in the least for going to Indiana.

[ringout]

Crean's achievements

1) Big East
2) The AL
3) Wade
4) Hiring Buzz

We can debate the order.  They were all important and helped MU become a better basketball program.

Crean is gone because he started to believe that recruiting to MU was too hard.  Buzz has proven that belief wrong.   Long term, Buzz has used what Crean built, and improved on it. We are better off.

[muwarrior69]

Crean is gone because he started to believe that recruiting to MU was too hard.  Buzz has proven that belief wrong.   Long term, Buzz has used what Crean built, and improved on it. We are better off.

The difference I believe is that Buzz can see talent in under rated players and get them to come to MU and succeed, where Crean wanted the high rated player and failed to seal the deal so he took the easy way out.

[The Equalizer]

Crean's achievements

1) Big East
2) The AL
3) Wade
4) Hiring Buzz

We can debate the order.  They were all important and helped MU become a better basketball program.

Crean is gone because he started to believe that recruiting to MU was too hard.  Buzz has proven that belief wrong.   Long term, Buzz has used what Crean built, and improved on it. We are better off.

I don't think Buzz has proven that yet.  

Crean's issue was that he couldn't attract highly rated guys like Zeller to MU.  

And just like Crean, Buzz has gone after after (and lost) top 25 ranked players like Gabe York to Arizona, Kris Dunn to Providence, Joe Jackson to Memphis, Tobias Harris to Tennessee, Branden Dawson to Michigan State, Mitch McGary to Michigan, BJ Young to Arkansas etc.  

Buzz is getting it done the same way Crean did--second tier recruits, JUCOs and transfers (e.g. Novak, Diener, the Amigos, Jackson, Hayward for Crean; DJO, Butler, Cadougan, Blue, Wilson for Buzz) and under the radar players (Wade for Crean; Mayo, Gardner for Buzz).

I think everyone is hopeful that Buzz will turn the corner on those top 25 recruits--we're listed with a number of them for 2014 and 2015.  If he can't, he may well reach the same conclusion as Crean.

[Skatastrophy]

I don't think Buzz has proven that yet. 

Crean's issue was that he couldn't attract highly rated guys like Zeller to MU. 

And just like Crean, Buzz has gone after after (and lost) top 25 ranked players like Gabe York to Arizona, Kris Dunn to Providence, Joe Jackson to Memphis, Tobias Harris to Tennessee, Branden Dawson to Michigan State, Mitch McGary to Michigan, BJ Young to Arkansas etc. 

Buzz is getting it done the same way Crean did--second tier recruits, JUCOs and transfers (e.g. Novak, Diener, the Amigos, Jackson, Hayward for Crean; DJO, Butler, Cadougan, Blue, Wilson for Buzz) and under the radar players (Wade for Crean; Mayo, Gardner for Buzz).

I think everyone is hopeful that Buzz will turn the corner on those top 25 recruits--we're listed with a number of them for 2014 and 2015.  If he can't, he may well reach the same conclusion as Crean.

I would contend that Buzz is a significantly better recruiter than Crean.  He consistently brings in very talented players that directly translate to production on the court.

Recruit rankings don't matter at all.  Recruiting players that are going to flourish in your program is what matters.

Crean recruiting Wade is a non-starter.  Plenty of teams wanted to recruit Wade but couldn't because he was a partial qualifier.  He fell into Crean's lap.

[79Warrior]

What worries me about the UConn game is that they may very well look at it as a must win game to shore up their NCAA resume.  We'll be in the same boat for all three of our remaining road games.  UConn, Cincy and WV are all likely NCAA participants but none of them are locks and a win over us would be big for them and a loss cuts deeply into their margin for error.

Of couse it is a must win game for them. They need to get this one.

[The Equalizer]

I would contend that Buzz is a significantly better recruiter than Crean.  He consistently brings in very talented players that directly translate to production on the court.

Recruit rankings don't matter at all.  Recruiting players that are going to flourish in your program is what matters.

Crean recruiting Wade is a non-starter.  Plenty of teams wanted to recruit Wade but couldn't because he was a partial qualifier.  He fell into Crean's lap.

You can content whatever you want.

What you can't do is say that Buzz has "already proven" that he has been able to land the top-25 type players like York, Dunn, Jackson, Harris, Dawson, McGary, Young, etc.

[MUFC9295]

Sorry... what are UCONN fans saying about the upcoming game?  I'm kinda lost here in the "what MU fans are saying about the past." 

[wadesworld]

You can content whatever you want.

What you can't do is say that Buzz has "already proven" that he has been able to land the top-25 type players like York, Dunn, Jackson, Harris, Dawson, McGary, Young, etc.

Not sure where anybody wrote that he has already proven to be able to land top-25 players.  He said that Crean thought it was too hard to recruit at Marquette.  Buzz has proven that is not true, and he is correct in saying that.  Buzz has not gotten the McDonald's All American, but he has consistently gotten top-100 players in every one of his recruiting class, to go along with JUCOs who if they were ranked would also be in the top-100.  That is something Crean was never able to do.  His biggest problem was that he would get one great class and then follow it up with 2 straight years of all 2-star recruits.  Buzz follows up top-20 recruiting classes with more top-20 recruiting classes, and always has a top-100 player in each class.

Not to mention, both Jamil and Vander were top 35 players.  Not sure what the difference between a top-25 and top-35 player is.  Or top-25 from top-50 or top-100.  Let's be honest, it's not like the 25th ranked player is a significantly stronger player than the 26th ranked player.  And rankings are incredibly inaccurate.  The product on the court is consistently better now than it was with Crean.  Another difference between Buzz and Crean is that Buzz's "Plan B" is a guy like Davante Gardner, who is a high-major contributor that wasn't necessarily a major recruit, while Crean's "Plan B" was a guy like Trend Blackledge, who gave you about 1 dunk and 1 rebound a game and 10 blown defensive assignments a game.

If Buzz isn't recruiting better than Crean, then he is a TON better of a coach and a TON better at developing talent, because the talent on Marquette's team is way better than what Crean typically put on the court (no doubt, there were some good seasons with Crean...the consistency was not what it is now, though).  If you don't think he's a better coach and talent developer, then he must be a better recruiter.  To me, he's better at both.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Sorry... what are UCONN fans saying about the upcoming game?  I'm kinda lost here in the "what MU fans are saying about the past." 

+1000

[real chili 83]

+1000

Ditto