Rumor: Big XII waiting on Clemson and Florida St

[Aughnanure]

FWIW - According to this article, Louisville will be in the Big East at least through this summer. Rutgers football news' account on twitter postulates that if the ACC pair move, UConn and Rutgers would get into the ACC by summer.

http://www.leatherhelmetblog.com/2012-articles/february/big-12-waiting-on-clemson-and-fsu.html


Discussion on UConn board:
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/fsu-and-clemson-to-big-xii.13119/

[icheights]

If this is true Marquette needs to get proactive in getting out of the Big East in basketball...

The more this shifting goes on the more I like the idea of an all basketball conference..I didn't like the idea at the beginning but if the BEAST loses Uconn and Rutgers to go along with Syracuse Pitt WVU and possibly Louisville Marquette needs to get out before it turns into Conference USA again.

[GGGG]

If this is true Marquette needs to get proactive in getting out of the Big East in basketball...

The more this shifting goes on the more I like the idea of an all basketball conference..I didn't like the idea at the beginning but if the BEAST loses Uconn and Rutgers to go along with Syracuse Pitt WVU and possibly Louisville Marquette needs to get out before it turns into Conference USA again.

We go when Georgetown, Nova, Notre Dame, etc. are ready to go.  It will happen eventually, but we need to continue to be associated with the traditional BE powers.  No need to be premature if the other schools aren't ready.

[tower912]

This.   Everyone knows that the all-hoop/all-catholic league is an option.   MU needs to stay aligned with the other Big East basketball schools.   Eventually, either the BEast tightens up, or they leave as a bloc.   

[groove]

We go when Georgetown, Nova, Notre Dame, etc. are ready to go.  It will happen eventually, but we need to continue to be associated with the traditional BE powers.  No need to be premature if the other schools aren't ready.

+1

If we leave early without Georgetown, Nova, Notre Dame etc. we will end up with Cleveland St, Detroit, etc in the Dying American Cities Conference.

[MarquetteDano]

This conference realignment has really lost the plot if this happens.

South Carolina, which has one of the lowest levels of disposable incomes in the country, will be playing most of their games in the plain states.  Too bad for Clemson fans who can enjoy driving to away games now.

I understand it is about football dollars but the complete lack of caring for the fans who ultimately are the ones contributing the football dollars blows me away.  There will be repercussions.  Maybe not right away but this will come back to haunt some schools.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This conference realignment has really lost the plot if this happens.

South Carolina, which has one of the lowest levels of disposable incomes in the country, will be playing most of their games in the plain states.  Too bad for Clemson fans who can enjoy driving to away games now.

I understand it is about football dollars but the complete lack of caring for the fans who ultimately are the ones contributing the football dollars blows me away.  There will be repercussions.  Maybe not right away but this will come back to haunt some schools.

Honestly, I think college football is getting like the housing bubble. Everybody is making a mad dash because they want the $, and nobody thinks the flow of $ from television will ever stop.

Well, at some point, the $ is going to level off and travel expenses for every sport are going to continue to climb. (example: now your swim team expenses are through the roof because they have to fly everywhere).

It's the law of unintended consequences.

Some of these realignments aren't going to work out.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

+1

If we leave early without Georgetown, Nova, Notre Dame etc. we will end up with Cleveland St, Detroit, etc in the Dying American Cities Conference.

+2

[79Warrior]

We go when Georgetown, Nova, Notre Dame, etc. are ready to go.  It will happen eventually, but we need to continue to be associated with the traditional BE powers.  No need to be premature if the other schools aren't ready.

I seriously doubt ND stays with the teams you mentioned.

[Aughnanure]

This conference realignment has really lost the plot if this happens.

South Carolina, which has one of the lowest levels of disposable incomes in the country, will be playing most of their games in the plain states.  Too bad for Clemson fans who can enjoy driving to away games now.

I understand it is about football dollars but the complete lack of caring for the fans who ultimately are the ones contributing the football dollars blows me away.  There will be repercussions.  Maybe not right away but this will come back to haunt some schools.

+1000. Conference Realignment is ruining rivalries and the fan experience. I think at some point, once there is a clear football playoff, you may see a reformation to make the geography work out better.

If the major schools separate and form their own league separate from the NCAA and BCS, they will bid on TV contracts as a whole -  eliminating the in-fighting of conferences trying to grab other teams to increase their payout.  I don't know if they'll be able to get away with some 4 x 16 team conferences, but if they increase it to 80-100 teams they probably eliminate the political backlash by including teams like Wyoming, New Mexico. A 4 x 20+ team conferences divided into 2 division each, would help maintain geographic relevancy.

[Aughnanure]

I seriously doubt ND stays with the teams you mentioned.

They will if they have a place in whatever the football playoff becomes. The only way they join a conference is if its the only way they maintain football relevancy.

[chapman]

We go when Georgetown, Nova, Notre Dame, etc. are ready to go.  It will happen eventually, but we need to continue to be associated with the traditional BE powers.  No need to be premature if the other schools aren't ready.

This.  Forget being "proactive".  We have nothing to gain by being proactive and jumping ship now.  Better off letting things play out, we don't lose anything by aligning with the other schools like us.

[dw3dw3dw3]

Honestly, I think college football is getting like the housing bubble. Everybody is making a mad dash because they want the $, and nobody thinks the flow of $ from television will ever stop.

Well, at some point, the $ is going to level off and travel expenses for every sport are going to continue to climb. (example: now your swim team expenses are through the roof because they have to fly everywhere).

It's the law of unintended consequences.

Some of these realignments aren't going to work out.

+111

[GGGG]

Honestly, I think college football is getting like the housing bubble. Everybody is making a mad dash because they want the $, and nobody thinks the flow of $ from television will ever stop.

Well, at some point, the $ is going to level off and travel expenses for every sport are going to continue to climb. (example: now your swim team expenses are through the roof because they have to fly everywhere).

A couple of things.  I do agree with you that at some point the TV money will level off, or at least grow at a slower rate.  However, that doesn't mean that schools shouldn't maximize when they can.  And the travel costs aren't the problem.  It's the coaching and facilities upgrade costs that are the main issue.

For instance, look at some of the schedules for Marquette.  Cross Country didn't leave the midwest all year.  (The BE meet was in Kentucky.)  Men's soccer left the midwest four times.  Same with women's.  Track and Field is leaving it a bunch, but only a couple of times for BE related commitments...the rest are open invites.

The point is that despite MU being in the BE, most of their competitions are still held locally.

The one thing I do agree with is that it does inhibit their fans from travelling.  And in the south for football, that means a lot.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A couple of things.  I do agree with you that at some point the TV money will level off, or at least grow at a slower rate.  However, that doesn't mean that schools shouldn't maximize when they can.  And the travel costs aren't the problem.  It's the coaching and facilities upgrade costs that are the main issue.

For instance, look at some of the schedules for Marquette.  Cross Country didn't leave the midwest all year.  (The BE meet was in Kentucky.)  Men's soccer left the midwest four times.  Same with women's.  Track and Field is leaving it a bunch, but only a couple of times for BE related commitments...the rest are open invites.

The point is that despite MU being in the BE, most of their competitions are still held locally.

The one thing I do agree with is that it does inhibit their fans from travelling.  And in the south for football, that means a lot.

Totally fair about the marquette's current travel schedule. I can't even pretend to know the exact logistics of every sport at every school.

However, on the whole, with the growth of conferences comes with some increased costs of travel. Maybe the costs aren't crippling, but eventually they could be considered burdensome if the athletic budgets start to level off.

Television money looks like it will never stop. I totally get that. ESPN NEEDS programing, and crappy D1 football still draws a decent rating compared to writing, acting and producing a scripted program.

However, in 2006, real estate was a can't lose proposition. The market was spinning so fast that nobody questioned it.

Well, if/when TV advertisers start reducing their spend, it won't matter what ratings ESPN is getting. They are going to have to reduce their own costs, and then the dominoes could start to fall.

[MUBurrow]

Here's an idea (which I like to think is originally my own, but is probably stolen somewhere from someone in the ether with all the realignment talk over the past few years:

If FSU & Clemson leave without adding anyone, the ACC will be:
1. Pitt                            7. Ga Tech
2. Cuse                          8. Virginia Tech
3. UNC                           9. NC St
4. Duke                         10. Virginia
5. Maryland                   11. The U
6. Wake                        12. Boston College

Thats an awesome basketball conference and a meh football conference. Problem is, by adding Rutgers and UConn, do you really improve your football revenue enough to make it worth splitting another two ways? The answer might be yes, but I think there's an alternative that makes more aggregate money from basketball than you add from football with Rutgers and UConn. Why not join up with the basketball only conference for basketball only. In this scenario, the above schools are in the ACC for all sports, and the teams in the below conference are in the "Non Football Conference" for all sports. The only overlap is basketball, which form one 24 team conference with a massive conference tourney. The teams play each of the 11 teams in their respective all-sports conference each year, plus play 6 of the teams from the other conference on a flipping basis. That gives you a 17 game conference sched (the BEast has 18 now). Then, the conference tournament for this monster would be sick as well. I'm not familiar enough with the financial implications of this stuff, but I feel like the increased TV revenue from the mega basketball contract might outweigh the additional football revenue of adding Rutgers and UConn. Also allows ND to keep their football independence, and no one travels much farther than NY to the Mississippi River.

BBall only:
1. MU                     7. Villanova
2. DePaul                8. St Johns
3. Gtown                9-12. The same Xavier/Dayton/ SLUwhoever conversation we have all the
4. Providence                   time around here.
5. Seton Hall          
6. Notre Dame      

edited because i suck at math

[Aughnanure]

Here's an idea (which I like to think is originally my own, but is probably stolen somewhere from someone in the ether with all the realignment talk over the past few years:

If FSU & Clemson leave without adding anyone, the ACC will be:
1. Pitt                            7. Ga Tech
2. Cuse                          8. Virginia Tech
3. UNC                           9. NC St
4. Duke                         10. Virginia
5. Maryland                   11. The U
6. Wake                        12. Boston College

Thats an awesome basketball conference and a meh football conference. Problem is, by adding Rutgers and UConn, do you really improve your football revenue enough to make it worth splitting another two ways? The answer might be yes, but I think there's an alternative that makes more aggregate money from basketball than you add from football with Rutgers and UConn. Why not join up with the basketball only conference for basketball only. In this scenario, the above schools are in the ACC for all sports, and the teams in the below conference are in the "Non Football Conference" for all sports. The only overlap is basketball, which form one 24 team conference with a massive conference tourney. The teams play each of the 11 teams in their respective all-sports conference each year, plus play 6 of the teams from the other conference on a flipping basis. That gives you a 17 game conference sched (the BEast has 18 now). Then, the conference tournament for this monster would be sick as well. I'm not familiar enough with the financial implications of this stuff, but I feel like the increased TV revenue from the mega basketball contract might outweigh the additional football revenue of adding Rutgers and UConn. Also allows ND to keep their football independence, and no one travels much farther than NY to the Mississippi River.

BBall only:
1. MU                     7. Villanova
2. DePaul                8. St Johns
3. Gtown                9-12. The same Xavier/Dayton/ SLUwhoever conversation we have all the
4. Providence                   time around here.
5. Seton Hall          
6. Notre Dame      

edited because i suck at math

Would be cool.... BUT what's in it for the ACC? Football would be their issue, and teaming up with BBall strengthens something they'll already be ridiculously strong at.

If this (FSU & Clemson to Big 12) happens, and thats a BIG if...You would have to think Miami and Ga Tech would be itching to jump as as well. Big 12 owns the naming rights to Big 14 and Big 16, and that would really create a formidable rival to the SEC. Plus, the Big 12 could basically surround the SEC.

FSU, Clemson, Miami, Georgia Tech, West Virginia, Kansas, K-State, Iowa St

Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Louisville/BYU/Memphis/Cincy?

[Dawson Rental]

If this is true Marquette needs to get proactive in getting out of the Big East in basketball...

The more this shifting goes on the more I like the idea of an all basketball conference..I didn't like the idea at the beginning but if the BEAST loses Uconn and Rutgers to go along with Syracuse Pitt WVU and possibly Louisville Marquette needs to get out before it turns into Conference USA again.

Okay, I'll bite.  Get out and go where?  The A-10?  The Horizon league?  Or Conference USA?  For the time being the Big East is by far the most competitive place for MU to be.  If and when enough football schools who are also top basketball programs leave the Big East and are to be replaced by football schools with mediocre or bad basketball programs, then the basketball schools will do what they have to do.  Until then hanging out in the Big East and collecting the NCAA revenues for tournament appearances by schools who have since left the league isn't so bad.

I kinda hope that Clemson and Florida State do leave the ACC, it would serve the ACC right.  I don't think that adding Pittsburgh and Syracuse will look that great to the ACC if it leads to them losing those two schools, especially Florida State football.  And it could be the move that finally stabilizes the whole conference setup.  After just trading two schools in their conference for two members whose loss actually hurts the ACC's football competitiveness should be a very sobering wakeup call.  I think that it would cast a pall over adding UConn and Rutgers.  And with 12 members, the Big 12 wouldn't need to add Louisville anymore.

[bamamarquettefan]

This conference realignment has really lost the plot if this happens.

South Carolina, which has one of the lowest levels of disposable incomes in the country, will be playing most of their games in the plain states.  Too bad for Clemson fans who can enjoy driving to away games now.

I understand it is about football dollars but the complete lack of caring for the fans who ultimately are the ones contributing the football dollars blows me away.  There will be repercussions.  Maybe not right away but this will come back to haunt some schools.

Does Clemson really want to go to a conference where they play west Virginia every year after that bowl game?

I'd take temple for rutgers in hoops, obviously hate to lose uconn.

[bilsu]

If this is true Marquette needs to get proactive in getting out of the Big East in basketball...

The more this shifting goes on the more I like the idea of an all basketball conference..I didn't like the idea at the beginning but if the BEAST loses Uconn and Rutgers to go along with Syracuse Pitt WVU and possibly Louisville Marquette needs to get out before it turns into Conference USA again.

Losing rutgers for basketball does not matter much to me. I think Uconn is not going to matter either. The wheels have come off their team for this season and I think Calhoun is done. They are going to be irrelavant in basketball very soon in my opinion.

[hairy worthen]

Losing rutgers for basketball does not matter much to me. I think Uconn is not going to matter either. The wheels have come off their team for this season and I think Calhoun is done. They are going to be irrelavant in basketball very soon in my opinion.

I think you are correct, but no one really knows what a conference change will do for a program. Look what the Big East did for Marquette. Houston has been a basketball and football power in the past, will the change to the big east help them regain that? Some teams will get better some will get worse.

[RJax55]

I think Uconn is not going to matter either. The wheels have come off their team for this season and I think Calhoun is done. They are going to be irrelavant in basketball very soon in my opinion.

Really? Certainly, UCONN is facing a transition period now (or sometime very soon) in regards to Calhoun. And, yes, his replacement will be a critical hire.

However, UCONN is a top-tier name in college hoops, with the resources and commitment to stay a very good program. Perhaps, not elite, but still formidable.

[GGGG]

Really? Certainly, UCONN is facing a transition period now (or sometime very soon) in regards to Calhoun. And, yes, his replacement will be a critical hire.

However, UCONN is a top-tier name in college hoops, with the resources and commitment to stay a very good program. Perhaps, not elite, but still formidable.

Yeah, it's hard for me to think of a "national power" that has suddenly become irrelevant in the last 30 years.  Perhaps the closest I can come up with is Indiana?  Or UNLV?   But both of those programs are far from being irrelevant. 

[Dawson Rental]

Losing Rutgers for basketball does not matter much to me. I think Uconn is not going to matter either. The wheels have come off their team for this season and I think Calhoun is done. They are going to be irrelavant in basketball very soon in my opinion.

Under Mike Rice, Rutgers is definitely on an upswing with a very good recruiting class this year in his first time out.  I believe that they will be a consistent top half of the Big East team very soon even without any more programs leaving.

[RJax55]

Yeah, it's hard for me to think of a "national power" that has suddenly become irrelevant in the last 30 years.  Perhaps the closest I can come up with is Indiana?  Or UNLV?   But both of those programs are far from being irrelevant.  

I can't think of any either. Certainly, you have programs that have dropped down a rung or two (Indiana, Cincy, UNLV). And I can definitely see that happening to UCONN, but becoming irrelevant, that's like becoming DePaul. I don't see that happening.