Time to change the Starting Line up

[NotAnAlum]

Obviously we have got to stop these slow starts.  We are playing with fire and we are going to lose some of these games particularly on the road.  Since it appears the whole BE has figured out out a zone is the way to slow us down we are going to see a steady dose of that.  It looks like to me like we are starting the game with too few scoring options particularly in the half court against a zone.  Blue almost never shoots, Junior doesn't shoot well until he has a sweat and is into the game.  I would suggest we either sit Blue in favor of Mayo to start the game (giving us another 3 point shooter against the zone), or let Blue start at the point and sit Junior.  At least then we start the game with 4 scoring options that should either open up the driving lanes or give Davante some room to work.

[GGGG]

I don't think the problem is lack of scoring options.  I actually think the problems have been more on the defensive end of the floor.  Lack of closeouts and slow rotations.  As MuMac mentioned, we had good looks by our shooters within the flow of the offense to start - we just weren't hitting them.  We score so much off of the intensity of our defense that sometimes it looks like it takes us awhile to get going on that end.

I actually wonder if starting Jamil and Mayo ahead of Blue and Gardner would be better.  Jamil and Mayo improve the defense, and the team speed, while still having an additional scorer on the floor.

[DomJamesToTheBasket]

I actually wonder if starting Jamil and Mayo ahead of Blue and Gardner would be better.  Jamil and Mayo improve the defense, and the team speed, while still having an additional scorer on the floor.

I would try that out.

[dw3dw3dw3]

Its a thought, but I don't think Buzz will, especially since we have been winning. Maybe put VB sneaking around the baseline from side to side. DJO does it and goes out to the line, but often times there's a little window there just outside the lane (Jae gets a lot of buckets there). Jae can move exclusively out to the perimeter then with DJO.  Having that instant offense come it at 15:00 minutes is nice too. There would be no point to change if all of a sudden we are playing minutes 10-20 bad. I think he just has to find a way to make the zone bust slightly more effective with JC and VB on the floor. I don't think it's that bad, we had decent shots today that didn't go in.  I would be curious to the offensive stats of the team when they are on the floor vs not on the floor together. Are those tracked anywhere?

I agree that the defensive rotations seem a step slow at the beginning.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I don't think the problem is lack of scoring options.  I actually think the problems have been more on the defensive end of the floor.  Lack of closeouts and slow rotations.  As MuMac mentioned, we had good looks by our shooters within the flow of the offense to start - we just weren't hitting them.  We score so much off of the intensity of our defense that sometimes it looks like it takes us awhile to get going on that end.

I actually wonder if starting Jamil and Mayo ahead of Blue and Gardner would be better.  Jamil and Mayo improve the defense, and the team speed, while still having an additional scorer on the floor.

I'm with you on Jamil starting in place of Gardner.  Gardner had a great game but was atrocious on pick and roll D.  Louisville was getting anything they wanted on the pick and roll with Gardner involved.  He's just not quick enough to guard that play if the offense runs it well.  

Not sure about Mayo ahead of Blue.  I like the offense coming off the bench to provide a spark.  

[Silkk the Shaka]

I actually wonder if starting Jamil and Mayo ahead of Blue and Gardner would be better.  Jamil and Mayo improve the defense, and the team speed, while still having an additional scorer on the floor.

And we'd actually have a shot at winning a jump ball occasionally. I like this lineup too, as you could then bring Blue in for Cadougan, DJO or Mayo, and Davante in for Crowder or JWilson. Everyone could keep their same minutes, but I think we might not start as slow (key word might) and the subbing options are slightly better in my opinion.

[flash]

Mayo has earned the right to start over Blue.

[94Warrior]

Am I the only one who's afraid we might lose Blue (mentally) if Mayo were to start over him?  Personally, I like the offense coming off the bench.  Besides, Todd is usually in there when it matters most.

I do like the idea of starting Jamil over Davante.  A fresh DG is punishing up against a somewhat winded defender.

Edit - I did want to mention Vander did make a nice 18 footer today, and made a great break on a length of the court inbounds play, tracked down the ball, and finished it with a beautiful feed to Gardner for a 3 point play.

[GGGG]

If Blue leaves because he doesn't start...even though he does play...then he can leave.  Anyone can...

[brewcity77]

I actually wonder if starting Jamil and Mayo ahead of Blue and Gardner would be better.

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, Gardner is playing great of late. He drew at least 6 of the 20 UL fouls, including 3 on Dieng by my count. But Jamil gives us a better chance to win the tip. That early possession matters.

And while Blue has had some nice spurts, and thankfully he doesn't try to shoot himself out of a slump anymore, I'd rather see Mayo for the first four. We need that extra scoring punch. Also, Blue just isn't getting to the rack or the line enough. He's capable, but needs a fire lit under his backside.

[bilsu]

Wilson should start in place of Blue.

[brewcity77]

Wilson should start in place of Blue.

I was glad to see him get 3 minutes, 1 rebound, and 1 steal today in some key minutes against UL, but I'm not sure that warrants a starting role.

[Dawson Rental]

I don't think the problem is lack of scoring options.  I actually think the problems have been more on the defensive end of the floor.  Lack of closeouts and slow rotations.  As MuMac mentioned, we had good looks by our shooters within the flow of the offense to start - we just weren't hitting them.  We score so much off of the intensity of our defense that sometimes it looks like it takes us awhile to get going on that end.

I actually wonder if starting Jamil and Mayo ahead of Blue and Gardner would be better.  Jamil and Mayo improve the defense, and the team speed, while still having an additional scorer on the floor.

Really?  Wow, I never dreamed that I ever hear that MU needed to sit Vander to improve the defense.  I'm not disputing your statement.  I can't honestly say that I've been concentrating enough on Mayo's defense to do so.  I'm just amazed that it may have come to that.

[NotAnAlum]

I actually thought of starting Jamil as well and wouldn't have a problem except DG does provide inside offense.  However I disagree that the problem is defense at the start.  We are way to stagnant against the zone at the beginning.  This leads to 25 seconds of passes around the perimeter followed by a 3 which we tend to miss.  Then we are back on our heels as the other team fast breaks against us.  Then as we fall further behind our shots get more and more desperate and we start missing short shots and turning the ball over on drives.  We need  made baskets to set up our press and get on the offensive in our defense.  I know Buzz doesn't like to change things when he ultimately wins but he should look at it this way.  We've lost all our last 3 road games with this starting line up so lets change it up.

[MuMark]

Can't start Jamil, Jae and Gardner. Early fouls would be a killer.

I don't like the slow starts either but you have to have some offense coming off the bench.

Only change I would consider is Jamil for DG but I'm ok with the way it is now.

Buzz subs so much I'm not sure it really matters who starts.

[esotericmindguy]

Jamil over Gardner? Really? Davante does give up some on defense but he rebounds better and draws fouls on the opponents big men repeatedly. Wilson had 2 rebounds in 26 minutes.

As for Mayo and the spark off the bench, I wouldn't mind a spark at the start of the game.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Jamil over Gardner? Really? Davante does give up some on defense but he rebounds better and draws fouls on the opponents big men repeatedly. Wilson had 2 rebounds in 26 minutes.

As for Mayo and the spark off the bench, I wouldn't mind a spark at the start of the game.

Starting has nothing to do with minutes played.  It might be better to start JWilson simply to have a shot at winning the tip.  Then play everyone their regular minutes.  Remember Erik Williams started games last year in  place of Crowder, who ended up playing 30+ minutes anyways.  Different reasons last year (Crowder avoiding early fouls & sticking with a starting lineup out of superstition) but the logic is the same.  Starting Gardner is conceding the tip to the other team.  In a closely contested game, every possession matters.  Gardner can still log his 25 mpg he's averaged in BEast play.

[wojosdojo]

I was glad to see him get 3 minutes, 1 rebound, and 1 steal today in some key minutes against UL, but I'm not sure that warrants a starting role.

+1. I was so pumped when he got that steal.. About half as pumped as Buzz.

[El Duderino]

Starting has nothing to do with minutes played.  It might be better to start JWilson simply to have a shot at winning the tip.  Then play everyone their regular minutes.  Remember Erik Williams started games last year in  place of Crowder, who ended up playing 30+ minutes anyways.  Different reasons last year (Crowder avoiding early fouls & sticking with a starting lineup out of superstition) but the logic is the same.  Starting Gardner is conceding the tip to the other team.  In a closely contested game, every possession matters.  Gardner can still log his 25 mpg he's averaged in BEast play.

I agree that there is no sense behind changing the starting lineup because of a couple of terrible starts in games. I think that's been more a fluke than anything.

If that grouping of players in the starting lineup was a big problem, that group would continue to struggle together in games besides the start and also in a lot of games.

I'm to lazy to look if a stats site tracks this, but if so, it would be more telling to see how certain groupings of players have performed together through all of the games, not singling out how the starters did in just a small sample of a few bad starts.

[bamamarquettefan]

I'm with you on Jamil starting in place of Gardner.  

I may agree with you here, but it is funny the post started with changing the line-up to get more offense, and while generally agreeing on changing the line-up, others are focused on getting more defense.  Today was the first day i thought Jamil looked like what we thought he'd be this year, really good defense and looked smooth on offense though I was shocked to look and see he'd actually only hit one shot.

The defense has been awesome for four straight games, as I posted on Cracked Sidewalks, but Buzz is going to have to keep subbing offense and defense.

I believe he was in most of the first 6 minutes when they scored 18 points their first 10 possessions for a ridiculous 1.8 points per trip.

After that Buzz got him out every time he could on defense,and the defense was unreal - 45 points in 64 trips for 0.70 points per trip.

[El Duderino]

I may agree with you here, but it is funny the post started with changing the line-up to get more offense, and while generally agreeing on changing the line-up, others are focused on getting more defense.  Today was the first day i thought Jamil looked like what we thought he'd be this year, really good defense and looked smooth on offense though I was shocked to look and see he'd actually only hit one shot.

The defense has been awesome for four straight games, as I posted on Cracked Sidewalks, but Buzz is going to have to keep subbing offense and defense.

I believe he was in most of the first 6 minutes when they scored 18 points their first 10 possessions for a ridiculous 1.8 points per trip.

After that Buzz got him out every time he could on defense,and the defense was unreal - 45 points in 64 trips for 0.70 points per trip.

Plus, some but not all of what happened in that 18-2 start was plain random luck.

Louisville couldn't miss from three in that stretch, the same kind of threes they missed later. On the flip side,while Marquette had some turnovers in that stretch, they also missed some type of shots that later went in.

Have say just one of the Louisville four threes in that stretch miss instead and a DJO three go in, the start is then 15-5, not 18-2. Add just one more of our shots going in vs missing, it's 15-7, huge difference.

Obviously those things didn't happen, but i do think that some sports fans at times completely forget about the randomness factor which can often ebb and flow through lots of games in sports, especially basketball when it comes to making or missing perimeter shots.

[chapman]

I actually wonder if starting Jamil and Mayo ahead of Blue and Gardner would be better.  Jamil and Mayo improve the defense, and the team speed, while still having an additional scorer on the floor.

Exactly what I would like to see.

[brewcity77]

Starting has nothing to do with minutes played.  It might be better to start JWilson simply to have a shot at winning the tip.  Then play everyone their regular minutes.  Remember Erik Williams started games last year in  place of Crowder, who ended up playing 30+ minutes anyways.  Different reasons last year (Crowder avoiding early fouls & sticking with a starting lineup out of superstition) but the logic is the same.  Starting Gardner is conceding the tip to the other team.  In a closely contested game, every possession matters.  Gardner can still log his 25 mpg he's averaged in BEast play.

+1,000

In fact, +1,000 more to that.

This is definitely something that the people enamored with DG don't seem to get. He's playing very well. He's nearly unstoppable on offense, drawing fouls, and when he gets to the line. But starting Jamil to win the tip doesn't have to impact DG's overall minutes. He'll probably get between 18-30 most nights, depending on the match-up, foul situation, and just how well he's getting up and down the court. That doesn't have to change because JW is out there for the first 90 seconds or so. Buzz can sub him in as soon as we have a chance, but with the value of every possession, I don't see why you wouldn't want to give yourself a chance to get an extra one.

Gardner's minutes are fine right now. He's doing better with them than I ever could have imagined. But he's a liability jumping the ball. Wilson has better length and hops, let him go for the tip, give us a fighting chance at it, then get Gardner in there at the earliest opportunity.

[GGGG]

I believe he was in most of the first 6 minutes when they scored 18 points their first 10 possessions for a ridiculous 1.8 points per trip.

Yes, and this is what I think our problem is.  We are definitely a slow starting offensive team, but yesterday it was compounded by poor defense.  If we start Jamil and Mayo over Blue and Gardner, we improve ourselves defensively, without losing a scoring punch.  On a zone offense, Jamil does well flashing to the free throw line and moves the ball nicely.  We then have three potential deep threats and three slashers on the floor to start out.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Agree with Sultan.  I enjoyed watching Crowder, J. Wilson, Gardner, DJO and Mayo on the court at the same time yesterday.  We had the height, the defense and the offense to play against anyone with that lineup.