Player vs. Recruiting vs. Character

[BenCat12]

I have been reading a lot of the Vander posts, both good and bad.  I am curious what is the number one cause of him being criticized by MU fans.  Is it his play?  Him not living up to his high recruiting status?  His off the court issues?  Or a combination of all these.  For me it is a combination of all of these things.  I absolutely hate the off court issues, whether he is guilty or not, I hate hearing anything like this about any MU player.  I also am guilty, as other fans are, of believing recruiting hype, I put too much stock into recruiting rankings and my expectations are probably too high, when these guys come in.  As far as Vander's play, I think he is our best perimeter defender, by quite a large margain and a great rebounding guard.  I also think he is our worst offensive perimeter player by that same large margain.  Until this roster has more multidimensional players, Vander will be (right or wrong) the whipping boy. 

[tower912]

I think some people just like to whine. 

[BenCat12]

Aren't you whinning about others whinning?

[tower912]

No.   Look at all of those players who were honored yesterday.    And if you are older, think back to all of teams since you started following Marquette.   Did each and every one of them accomplish what they were supposed to as a player?    Did none of them screw up off of the court?  Going back, we have teams that underachieved because they quit on their coach (ask murf sometime).    We had players who refused to salute the flag because of their feelings about Viet Nam.   We had a player leave mid-season for the ABA and possibly cost us a national championship.    We had a coach and a player get in a fight in the locker room at halftime of an NCAA tourney game.  We had other players beat their girlfriends, one who was driving a jeep in the snow with a girl hanging on the bumper who lost her grip, hit her head, and remained in a coma until she died.   We had players who liked weed.   We had a player assault one of our coaches during practice.    We had a player who bragged about his poker playing ability at the casino.    We had one who may have bet on basketball games.      We've had a 5 star recruit eat himself out of the game. 
    My point is this.   Vander did some dumb stuff off of the court.   He isn't the first player, or even the first MU student, to mess up.   On the court, he is a work in progress.   I refuse to bag on this kid simply because he does not live up to a pre-conceived notion of how good he is supposed to be.    After all, JJones was nearly as highly ranked.   How is his progress?    Where are the countless threads about how he isn't living up to expectations?    Take out all historic context.   How is Blue doing as a sophomore swingman on a top 25 team?    Right now, he is a solid glue guy who needs work on his shot and his confidence.    As a sophomore swingman on a top 25 team, I'll take it. 

[4everwarriors]

We also had a coach who was a total and complete, self-serving dickhead while here.

[The Maestro]

Who is the 5 star recruit that ate himself out of the game? If I may ask.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Am I missing something? What are Blue's off court issues other than getting in a fight? Who didn't get in fights in their teens? Big deal!

[4everwarriors]

Who is the 5 star recruit that ate himself out of the game? If I may ask.

Lloyd Moore

[🏀]

Lloyd Moore

Chocolate Moose.

[4everwarriors]

Saw Moore and Majerus at the Hyatt's all you can eat Sunday brunch. I think they ran out of food.

[LloydMooresLegs]

I resemble that remark. 

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=mog&hl=en&gl=us&client=safari&q=lloyd%20moore%20basketball&sa=N&biw=320&bih=356#i=0

[Tugg Speedman]

Lloyd Moore

Lloyd Moore (food) was a 5 star recruit?  I went to mU during that era and I thought it came down to us and Duquene for his services.  I think he was more a 2 star project.

[4everwarriors]

Check again Bro. Schenley High in Pittsburgh gave us Luke and Moore.

[GGGG]

Plus we had Dukiet era.  And outside of Tony Smith and Trevor Powell, nothing good came out of the Dukiet era.  A bunch of doofuses....

[WarriorHal]

Vander is probably the most highly recruited player to come to Marquette since Doc Rivers. Since they are both guards, maybe the comparison should be Vander vs. Doc as sophs. So at that stage of their careers, how do they compare?

[🏀]

Vander is probably the most highly recruited player to come to Marquette since Doc Rivers. Since they are both guards, maybe the comparison should be Vander vs. Doc as sophs. So at that stage of their careers, how do they compare?

Different guard, different player, different era, different game.

[Nukem2]

Lloyd Moore (food) was a 5 star recruit?  I went to mU during that era and I thought it came down to us and Duquene for his services.  I think he was more a 2 star project.

Lloyd  was a definitely a highly sought 5 star guy.  Actually was good offensively, but too fat to do any more.

[Maryland Warrior]

Its the recruiting hype. Everybody just hast to take a breath.

[Tugg Speedman]

Lloyd  was a definitely a highly sought 5 star guy.  Actually was good offensively, but too fat to do any more.

He was never as good as his billing.   That's why it was down to MU, Duquene and Pitt.  No "5-star" schools were after him.

[MuMark]

" I absolutely hate the off court issues, whether he is guilty or not, "

I think this pretty much tells me all I need to know about you................

[BenCat12]

" I absolutely hate the off court issues, whether he is guilty or not, "

I think this pretty much tells me all I need to know about you................

Why is that exactly?  Vander has been here for 1 1/2 seasons and his name has been linked to three different things.  Whether he is guilty of the act or not he is in the wrong place at the wrong time too often.  I don't want those type of allegations attached to players I cheer for.  If that makes me wrong then so be it. 

[tower912]

Character and agenda revealed. 

[BenCat12]

I don't have an agenda, I was curious as to why others are so hard on Vander.  The answer is more than just whining.  I wanted to know how much of a role the three categories I listed have to do with why others rip on him.  I know why I don't like him.... I want to know why others don't. 

There is a difference between being a fan of a program and blind dumb loyalty to everything and anything with an MU logo on it.  This comes from a 20 year season ticket holder.

I expect more from MU student athletes past and present.  If that makes me a bad fan then I am a bad fan.

[TedBaxter]

Check again Bro. Schenley High in Pittsburgh gave us Luke and Moore.

Moore was from Clairton (PA) High School.

[MerrittsMustache]

I don't have an agenda, I was curious as to why others are so hard on Vander.  The answer is more than just whining.  I wanted to know how much of a role the three categories I listed have to do with why others rip on him.  I know why I don't like him.... I want to know why others don't. 

There is a difference between being a fan of a program and blind dumb loyalty to everything and anything with an MU logo on it.  This comes from a 20 year season ticket holder.

I expect more from MU student athletes past and present.  If that makes me a bad fan then I am a bad fan.

My post, copied and pasted from a different thread...

Simply put, many fans don't like Vander because he's making them look bad.

When Vander dissed Wisco and came to Marquette, many fans touted him as Wade 2.0 (or should I say Wade 3.0 since Dameon Mason was annointed Wade 2.0?). He's a 6'4", athletic, all-around stud and he was coming to our school to follow in Wade's footsteps. MU fans mocked Badger fans because one of the most highly ranked in-state recruits in recent memory didn't want to stay in Madison. He wanted to be a Warrior. Currently, Blue is a valuable role player at Marquette and many MU fans are ready to label him a complete bust because, 1.5 seasons into his career, he hasn't been the All-American they were unfairly expecting him to be. In other words, Blue is making them look bad because they had talked him up and had built him up to an impossible-to-attain level and he's not even close to reaching that level so they're taking it out on him. If Vander was a 4-star recruit from Texas, you'd barely hear a whisper about his offensive struggles. Jamail Jones, for example, was ranked just outside the top 50 as a recruit and he can't even get on the floor consistently yet you don't constantly see threads popping up ripping his game or his high-fiving prowess.

Dominic James was a similar situation to Blue. He was a freshman stud and appeared to be on his way to the NBA Lottery. Unfortunately, he peaked as a freshman and many fans never "forgave" him for that. He was going to be the next big thing at MU and instead ended up with a disappointing career, finishing 2nd in school history in assists and 3rd in scoring.