Gardner

[mviale]

Lets ride the Ox back to the sweet 16.  I know some have suggested that we would be undefeated with CO starting.  Not so sure.  Go back and look at the competition and Chris' lines.  Look at the Wisconsin game.  I miss Otule, but see this as a great opportunity for both Gardner and Wilson. 

[MUBurrow]

going to have to generally disagree. Ox absolutely showed what he can do, but its against an undermanned St Johns team with no one taller than 6' 8". I love the way Davante's developing, but he wont be able to do this against the kind of team you have to beat to get into the sweet 16. Maybe one day, but hes just not there yet.

I will say that of all Davante's stats, 34 minutes is by far the most impressive to me. He deserves a big pat on the back for that one. Shows how hard the kid works.

I also think the Otule injury hurts Wilson more than it helps him. He's forced to play more out of position and isnt able to get his midrange game away from the basket really going. Sure maybe he gets on the court a little more, but not in a way that hes comfortable. And I think confidence and finding a comfort zone is more important for Jamil than just PT right now.

[denverMU]

I think all this playing time has moved up Davante's progression by a year.   34 minutes and still playing strong he is only going to get better this year.

[UticaBusBarn]

As mentioned before, Davante Gardner seems to be the reincarnation of Wes Unseld. This is being noted for those who might actually recall the nature of the game played, and the skill set, of Mr. Unseld.

[downtown85]

34 minutes and still playing strong

His ability to get down the floor in transition for the dunk in the second half shows that he is in pretty good shape.  Hats off to Davante.  Keep it up!!

[brewcity77]

Lets ride the Ox back to the sweet 16.  I know some have suggested that we would be undefeated with CO starting.  Not so sure.  Go back and look at the competition and Chris' lines.  Look at the Wisconsin game.  I miss Otule, but see this as a great opportunity for both Gardner and Wilson.

And this is the problem with the Otule detractors. If you look at his statline, you're right. But he's not a box score stuffer. Look at the rebounding disparity in that game. MU outrebounded Wisconsin 41-28. No, Chris wasn't the one pulling them down, but he keeps them alive for guys like Vander and DJO. Look at the points in the paint. We outscored them 32-16 down low. Jared Berggren had only 2 points in the paint. Otule was the one defending that paint for 25 minutes of that game.

But nonetheless...Ox was immense last night. I didn't think he could play that many minutes. It certainly helped that he wasn't out-sized for once. And I think that St. John's shallow bench also helped. God's Gift was the only guy they had with the body type to slow Gardner, and frankly, he just didn't do the necessary job defensively. Ox was able to abuse their small front court, but it'll be a lot tougher against teams like Louisville, Seton Hall, Notre Dame, and UConn that have a bit more depth up front.

Where I think this will really pay off is next year. Games like last night will do wonders for Gardner's confidence, and while it won't be the case in every game, I can now envision DG and Otule playing together against some teams. I could see both of them averaging 20+ mpg next year. I still think right now we'll have problems with teams that have legitimate low-post scoring, but when Gardner stays home, he's improving as a defender. His rebounding last night was phenomenal. And he's a very effective and instinctive scorer. I've never seen a player at Marquette with his kind of size that could make so many contested shots. Whether he's in position, off-balance, or ducking under his defender and going up with it, he simply finds ways to put the ball in the hoop.

He still collects too many fouls, but he's coming along. I know, he didn't have any first-half fouls, but he also didn't play any first-half defense. I am not sure if this is necessarily Gardner's fault or Buzz's. I think that Buzz really likes having his center shade out to the three-point line. I remember when Mbao was here, watching Lazar gently put his hand on the small of Mbao's back and push him to the top of the key at the beginning of a defensive possession and was bewildered why we wouldn't want our big man protecting the paint. Otule often flashes out to the perimeter, but isn't exposed as often because he has great lateral quickness to get back into the paint. Gardner simply doesn't have the quickness on defense to be that guy who's doubling someone beyond the arc and still getting back to protect the paint.

In general I don't like the idea of our center being the guy that goes out there because that often leaves no one to protect the paint. I hate leaving the other team's biggest, strongest guy unguarded down low. God's Gift abused us in the first half because Gardner was doing that. I have to assume he's instructed to do it, because we've seen it with center after center for years, I just don't get the why.

[nyg]

When was the last time an MU center put up the numbers that Gardner had last night?

22 points, 15 rebounds and 2 blocks. 

McIlvaine?, Whitehead?, Chones?

[Hards Alumni]

When was the last time an MU center put up the numbers that Gardner had last night?

22 points, 15 rebounds and 2 blocks. 

McIlvaine?, Whitehead?, Chones?

When is the last time MU had a 6'7" Center?

Oh wait.

[MUMac]

going to have to generally disagree. Ox absolutely showed what he can do, but its against an undermanned St Johns team with no one taller than 6' 8". I love the way Davante's developing, but he wont be able to do this against the kind of team you have to beat to get into the sweet 16. Maybe one day, but hes just not there yet.

I will say that of all Davante's stats, 34 minutes is by far the most impressive to me. He deserves a big pat on the back for that one. Shows how hard the kid works.

I also think the Otule injury hurts Wilson more than it helps him. He's forced to play more out of position and isnt able to get his midrange game away from the basket really going. Sure maybe he gets on the court a little more, but not in a way that hes comfortable. And I think confidence and finding a comfort zone is more important for Jamil than just PT right now.

Agree completely.  Wilson has been hurt as much by Otule's injury as anyone.  I think the argument is silly, MU is far better with both Otule and Gardner.  FAR better.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

going to have to generally disagree. Ox absolutely showed what he can do, but its against an undermanned St Johns team with no one taller than 6' 8". I love the way Davante's developing, but he wont be able to do this against the kind of team you have to beat to get into the sweet 16. Maybe one day, but hes just not there yet.

I will say that of all Davante's stats, 34 minutes is by far the most impressive to me. He deserves a big pat on the back for that one. Shows how hard the kid works.

I also think the Otule injury hurts Wilson more than it helps him. He's forced to play more out of position and isnt able to get his midrange game away from the basket really going. Sure maybe he gets on the court a little more, but not in a way that hes comfortable. And I think confidence and finding a comfort zone is more important for Jamil than just PT right now.

Actually Gardner seemed to do pretty well against Duke and North Carolina last year.  Did better against the better competition.  Biggest problem to me has been the guards ignore him quite often when he has spectacular position down low.  They quite frankly need to look for him alot more.  Also on the defensive end.  And this goes for both Otule and Gardner.  The biggest problem has been the guards overplaying and leaving the bigs on a island trying to guard two players at once.  This most often causes MUs defensive problems, not Otule or Gardner.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Hards, Gardner is 6'8".

[Hards Alumni]

Hards, Gardner is 6'8".

In shoes.  He and Jamil Wilson next to each other look about the same height.

[chapman]

When is the last time MU had a 6'7" Center?

Oh wait.

Usually they're about 6'5". 

[T-Bone]

I'm excited that I've seen him jump!

But really, the hustle that I've seen from him over the last couple weeks (since the non-start) has been outstanding along with him playing smart(er).  Sure he had a couple lazy fouls during this time, but he's working his butt off. 

Think how good him and Otule *can* be next year with both of them fresh.

[Hards Alumni]

I'm not the hugest fan of DG, but that breakaway 2 pass, then dunk by him was my favorite play of the year.

[NersEllenson]

Actually Gardner seemed to do pretty well against Duke and North Carolina last year.  Did better against the better competition.  Biggest problem to me has been the guards ignore him quite often when he has spectacular position down low.  They quite frankly need to look for him alot more.  Also on the defensive end.  And this goes for both Otule and Gardner.  The biggest problem has been the guards overplaying and leaving the bigs on a island trying to guard two players at once.  This most often causes MUs defensive problems, not Otule or Gardner.

Bingo - Yet we have people trying to say Gardner simply performed well last night because he was facing a 6'8 Achiuwa....Gardner has been extremely productive no matter the competition - fared very well against Duke's Plumlees, Zeller from UNC...always shows up in big games (unlike his detractors favorite - Vander - who tends to disappear against top competition).  BTW - Achiwua is no midget..he's built pretty darn well..and is a very athletic 6'8" - would have loved to have him in an MU uniform...

[GGGG]

Bingo - Yet we have people trying to say Gardner simply performed well last night because he was facing a 6'8 Achiuwa....Gardner has been extremely productive no matter the competition - fared very well against Duke's Plumlees, Zeller from UNC...always shows up in big games (unlike his detractors favorite - Vander - who tends to disappear against top competition).  BTW - Achiwua is no midget..he's built pretty darn well..and is a very athletic 6'8" - would have loved to have him in an MU uniform...

Hold on....are you calling me a Davante "detractor?"  Based on what?  I've liked the dude since we signed him and said emphatically that he should be the SOTG last night.

[Lennys Tap]

Where I think this will really pay off is next year. Games like last night will do wonders for Gardner's confidence, and while it won't be the case in every game, I can now envision DG and Otule playing together against some teams. I could see both of them averaging 20+ mpg next year.

I'm with you here. I know Buzz's preference is for a lineup of C, PG and 3 "switchables", but the way Davante is developing I could see us at times running a double low post or high/low post with Otule and Gardner - and overpowering some teams. Wouldn't it be nice to be the "bully" for a change, even if for only brief stretches?

[NersEllenson]

Hold on....are you calling me a Davante "detractor?"  Based on what?  I've liked the dude since we signed him and said emphatically that he should be the SOTG last night.

You just seem to have a habit of diminishing Davante's accomplishments while trying to inflate Blue's - though not nearly to the extent of BrewCity1977....I recall last year when prior to Big East play I said Gardner would be MU's best big man since Robert Jackson, and would quite possibly be as good if not better - many piling on and telling me I was crazy and a fanboy...though not sure if you were in that faction...

[Lighthouse 84]

Bingo - Yet we have people trying to say Gardner simply performed well last night because he was facing a 6'8 Achiuwa....Gardner has been extremely productive no matter the competition - fared very well against Duke's Plumlees, Zeller from UNC...always shows up in big games (unlike his detractors favorite - Vander - who tends to disappear against top competition).  BTW - Achiwua is no midget..he's built pretty darn well..and is a very athletic 6'8" - would have loved to have him in an MU uniform...

This happens more often than not to a thread.  The entire thread, up until your post Ners, is about Davante Gardner, how well he played last night, how he plays in general.  Then you bring up Vander and bash him.  WTF does he have to do with the comments made to that point about DG other than to a) get a knock in on VB and b) get a knock in on a poster who may have disagreed with you in the past?

Just sayin'

[tower912]

In the first half, DG and God's Gift were virtually even.   DG giveth an easy hoop, DG scoreth an easy hoop.   He is easily the best offensive post player we have had here since Jackson/Merrit.    But defensively, he is a work in progress, he deserved a T for clearing out after gaining a defensive rebound, and SJU is easily the smallest, shallowest team he is likely to face this year.     Great game for him.   I am not optimistic that this is the new normal. 

[Aughnanure]

I'm not the hugest fan of DG, but that breakaway 2 pass, then dunk by him was my favorite play of the year.

What does that even mean? Your not a "huge fan" of the only offensively productive post player we've had since RJax?

[GGGG]

This happens more often than not to a thread.  The entire thread, up until your post Ners, is about Davante Gardner, how well he played last night, how he plays in general.  Then you bring up Vander and bash him.  WTF does he have to do with the comments made to that point about DG other than to a) get a knock in on VB and b) get a knock in on a poster who may have disagreed with you in the past?

Just sayin'

Not just that, one can praise (or detract from) both of them.  It isn't an either/or thing.  They play completely different positions and have completely different roles on the team.  I don't know why the two are linked in his mind.

[wadesworld]

This happens more often than not to a thread.  The entire thread, up until your post Ners, is about Davante Gardner, how well he played last night, how he plays in general.  Then you bring up Vander and bash him.  WTF does he have to do with the comments made to that point about DG other than to a) get a knock in on VB and b) get a knock in on a poster who may have disagreed with you in the past?

Just sayin'

Completely agreed. We actually had a legitimate, intelligent thread going on. Then Ners has to come in and turn it into yet another thread about what is wrong with Vander Blue and how intelligent Ners himself is. That's great. Guess I'll just stop reading the thread here. Would put Ners on ignore, but the problem is that whenever he(/she?) posts the entire thread goes on a tangent and never comes back. So I supposed I'll just stop reading threads once Ners posts in them and assume they're about Vander from that point on.

[Skatastrophy]

What does that even mean? Your not a "huge fan" of the only offensively productive post player we've had since RJax?

DG is exciting offensively, but it's tough to be really high on a center that plays D with his hands instead of his feet.