Why the Jae Crowder love?

[ErickJD08]

Mac--the things I describe happen every single game from VB.

To answer your question, they happen waaaaay too many times for my taste.

Finally, someone on this board that sees that same crap I do.

I know people can read box scores really well. Box scores do not tell the whole story. We R nails it. He makes stupid decisions We R described every game. And he has been doing them since game 1. That is my frustration, not hate.

[ErickJD08]

As I said, give me the number of times.  Include proof that it doesn't happen to anyone else. 

I will save you the time.  You don't have anything.  You don't like Blue, so you remember the times he does it.  You like DJO, Mayo, Crowder, JC and Gardner, so you will not remember when they do the same thing.  Blue does the things you describe.  So do all the others.

The funny thing, Mayo is loved by all - and I really like his potential - but watch his game.  Watch the number of times the same things you describe happens to him (or he actually turns it over).  But, that won't matter, because he can score.  That is all that matters to you.  Well, check the box score the past few weeks ...

You're right. Mayo does make these mistakes although not as often as Blue. And I am sure those mistakes will reduce as THE FRESHMEN plays more. Mayo is just a freshmen though so he is making freshmen mistakes. And if he continues to make those mistakes next season, people will jump on him too.

No one else really makes those mistakes though on a per game basis.  And when people say he jumps up in air not knowing what to do, we can make that determination when he makes a crappy pass from the air. Typically, you will see players make crisp kick out passes while in the air because they knew where they were going with the ball right when they took off. Vander often makes bad ones.

[We R Final Four]

As I said, give me the number of times.  Include proof that it doesn't happen to anyone else. 

I will save you the time.  You don't have anything.  You don't like Blue, so you remember the times he does it.  You like DJO, Mayo, Crowder, JC and Gardner, so you will not remember when they do the same thing.  Blue does the things you describe.  So do all the others.

The funny thing, Mayo is loved by all - and I really like his potential - but watch his game.  Watch the number of times the same things you describe happens to him (or he actually turns it over).  But, that won't matter, because he can score.  That is all that matters to you.  Well, check the box score the past few weeks ...

Well at least you are not making some wild ass assumptions.  You like him.  You don't like him.  Everyone loves this guy.  Everyone hates this guy.  I am explaining to someone who did not watch the Cuse game, that Blue's mistakes are not always quanitified in the stat book. I was discussing the Cuse game from yesterday.  I am not sure what you are asking for exists.  When Vb does something stupid but it doesn't make it into the stat book, you say show me the facts?  Watch the games I guess.

[bilsu]

Crowder is the best player on this team. He is the only player that a season ending injury to would have been worse than a season ending injury to Otule.

[🏀]

Crowder is the best player on this team. He is the only player that a season ending injury to would have been worse than a season ending injury to Otule.

Disagree. If Jae was the best player, then we will miss his presence next year.

That won't be the case. His slow defensive footwork and rotations will be gone and his inability to create offense won't hamper the team.

[MUMac]

Well at least you are not making some wild ass assumptions.  You like him.  You don't like him.  Everyone loves this guy.  Everyone hates this guy.  I am explaining to someone who did not watch the Cuse game, that Blue's mistakes are not always quanitified in the stat book. I was discussing the Cuse game from yesterday.  I am not sure what you are asking for exists.  When Vb does something stupid but it doesn't make it into the stat book, you say show me the facts?  Watch the games I guess.

As I stated, you've got nothing.  Thanks for the confirmation.

[MerrittsMustache]

LA--what the box score does not show you the number of times VB jumps into the air, realizes he has no idea what he is going to do, and attempts to make a weak pass that at the last second is tipped out of bounds by Cuse.  Box score=non event.

When VB throws the most deliberate pass that Cuse momentarily steals, bounces off their foot and out of bounds--MU ball.  Box score=non event.

Neither of these plays and the close proximity of missed layups do not show up in the box score.  If you want to defend VB based on box score go ahead.  If you want to see what fans are talikng about, watch him play.  It is far from exceptional.

Those plays show up as "non events" in the box score because, quite simply, they're not events.

When watching the St. John's game, I'd like for you to keep track of a new stat for each player:  "Shoulda been a turnover" (or SBT). I look forward to reading your findings.

[MUMac]

Those plays show up as "non events" in the box score because, quite simply, they're not events.

When watching the St. John's game, I'd like for you to keep track of a new stat for each player:  "Shoulda been a turnover" (or SBT). I look forward to reading your findings.

Crean had deflections; Buzz has paint touches;  We R has "shoulda been a turnover".

[JTBMU7]

I'll take a guess as to why people love Jae...

16.5 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 50% from the floor, 70% from the line, and 37% from 3...

Arguably the best and most valuable player on the team. I cannot see how there would be any discussion otherwise.  

[MU B2002]

I'll take a guess as to why people love Jae...

16.5 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 50% from the floor, 70% from the line, and 37% from 3...

Arguably the best and most valuable player on the team. I cannot see how there would be any discussion otherwise.  

I love him because of the way he yells "and 1" but in this case I wish he would yell "+1".

[We R Final Four]

Crean had deflections; Buzz has paint touches;  We R has "shoulda been a turnover".

No Mac--real turnovers, as in leading the team in turnovers.  And if he keeps playing exceptional (as some claim) at point, he will leave DJO in his dust for the TO title.  I think 0-4 from the line yesterday was real.  And pretty sure that 42% from the field this year is real.

[MerrittsMustache]

No Mac--real turnovers, as in leading the team in turnovers.  And if he keeps playing exceptional (as some claim) at point, he will leave DJO in his dust for the TO title.  I think 0-4 from the line yesterday was real.  And pretty sure that 42% from the field this year is real.

Blue has a much better A:TO ratio than DJO (1.57 to 1.08) and is second on the team in steals. Odd you didn't mention those figures.

Blue is shooting 42.4% from the field. DJO isn't much better at 44.0%. Mayo is shooting 42.3%. Junior is shooting 41.6%. Vander is far from being Marquette's only backcourt player who has a mediocre FG%.

[77ncaachamps]

Disagree. If Jae was the best player, then we will miss his presence next year.

That won't be the case. His slow defensive footwork and rotations will be gone and his inability to create offense won't hamper the team.

With Otule in the center, I doubt this would happen.

Regarding hampering the team defensively, Todd, Vander and DJO's gambles on passes have equally done so.

[We R Final Four]

Blue has a much better A:TO ratio than DJO (1.57 to 1.08) and is second on the team in steals. Odd you didn't mention those figures.

Blue is shooting 42.4% from the field. DJO isn't much better at 44.0%. Mayo is shooting 42.3%. Junior is shooting 41.6%. Vander is far from being Marquette's only backcourt player who has a mediocre FG%.

When you have a history of hitting big time shots like DJO, you get some slack.  Let me know when VB hits a big shot EVER.

[GGGG]

Merrits point is that the numbers aren't as bad as people are making them out to be.  They're consistent with other players on the team.  He is the best rebounding guard, second in assists, and on a per game basis, actually behind DJO in turnovers.  No one is arguing he is the best player on the team.  People are just arguing that his contributions aren't "marginal" and in fact are quite valuable.

[LON]

When you have a history of hitting big time shots like DJO, you get some slack.  Let me know when VB hits a big shot EVER.

He was the only one to make a shot for a 13:41 stretch of the game.  Stepped right into his 3 and nailed it.

He also seems to know that 1 v 3 or 1 v 4 fast breaks aren't a good time to try and go to the rim.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I'll take a guess as to why people love Jae...

16.5 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 50% from the floor, 70% from the line, and 37% from 3...

Arguably the best and most valuable player on the team. I cannot see how there would be any discussion otherwise.  

Can't believe it took this long. If Crowder isn't our best player, who is?

[MUMac]

No Mac--real turnovers, as in leading the team in turnovers.  And if he keeps playing exceptional (as some claim) at point, he will leave DJO in his dust for the TO title.  I think 0-4 from the line yesterday was real.  And pretty sure that 42% from the field this year is real.

Changing the topic?  You were upset that the stats did not show the "shoulda's".  Please try to stay on your own topic.  Now bringing up FT shooting as your defense?  You still cannot provide facts on your original argument, so if I were you, I would probably want to change the discussion as well.

As for the TO's, he is tied for 1st with DJO and 2 ahead of Junior.  You may recall (or maybe not), both those players were suspended for 1 game.  I wonder if that impacts the TO/game totals?  Hmmm ... it does.  He then is 3rd in the team in TO's.  TO/game is a much more valuable statistic.  

It's not news that Vander has flaws.  No one I know is arguing that.  All the complaints you have with Vander, I have as well.  I see his strengths and am actually pleased that as the season has progressed, he has played more to his strengths.  The issue I have is Vander get's slammed by posters, such as yourself, while other's with flaws are given a pass.  Has been that way from day 1.  He is a valuable contributor.  Yet, you seem not to understand that.

[MUMac]

When you have a history of hitting big time shots like DJO, you get some slack.  Let me know when VB hits a big shot EVER.

What big time shots did DJO hit 16 games into his sophomore season?

[Henry Sugar]

I'll take a guess as to why people love Jae...

16.5 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 50% from the floor, 70% from the line, and 37% from 3...

Arguably the best and most valuable player on the team. I cannot see how there would be any discussion otherwise.  

Count me as +1.  Not to mention the Washington game and the WVU game last year, plus the argument Tim made last year that Crowder was the key to beating Syracuse in the tourney.

This is a topic?

[MerrittsMustache]

It's not news that Vander has flaws.  No one I know is arguing that.  All the complaints you have with Vander, I have as well.  I see his strengths and am actually pleased that as the season has progressed, he has played more to his strengths.  The issue I have is Vander get's slammed by posters, such as yourself, while other's with flaws are given a pass.  Has been that way from day 1.  He is a valuable contributor.  Yet, you seem not to understand that.

Very well said.

In previous Vander discussions, I've said that he reminds me of a smaller version of Terrence Williams from Louisville - not a tremendous shooter/scorer but a guy who contributes in a lot of different ways. Just for comparison...

Blue as a soph: 27.3 min, 8.9 pts, 4.3 reb, 3.6 ast, 0.3 blks, 1.6 stl, 1.57 A/TO, 42.4% FG, 29.4% 3P, 62.3% FT, 1.21 PPS

TW as a soph: 33.0 min, 12.4 pts, 7.0 reb, 3.8 ast, 0.7 blks, 1.3 stl, 1.59 A/TO, 36.7% FG, 26.1% 3P, 60.4% FT, 0.98 PPS

By his senior season, Williams was arguably the most valuable player on one of the best teams in the country. Not saying that will necessarily be the case with Blue, but just because Blue's game isn't where some fans believe it should be, that doesn't mean it won't ever get there.

[MerrittsMustache]

Count me as +1.  Not to mention the Washington game and the WVU game last year, plus the argument Tim made last year that Crowder was the key to beating Syracuse in the tourney.

This is a topic?

IMO, Crowder hasn't progressed since the end of last season. That's what is so frustrating. That and his unwillingness to put a body on somebody and actually box them out.

[Hards Alumni]

IMO, Crowder hasn't progressed since the end of last season. That's what is so frustrating. That and his unwillingness to put a body on somebody and actually box them out.

I completely agree.  I think Jae thinks his game is great since he fills up the stat sheet.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The funny thing, Mayo is loved by all - and I really like his potential - but watch his game.  Watch the number of times the same things you describe happens to him (or he actually turns it over).  But, that won't matter, because he can score.  That is all that matters to you.  Well, check the box score the past few weeks ...

The fact that he can score and is a threat from three point territory is a HUGE difference. Scoring is not all that matters, but even if Mayo does not score at all he's affecting the success of our offense in a positive way. Not sure you can say that about Blue...although I have to say that Vander has played much better since BE play began. I thought he was decent against Nova and at least contributed against Syracuse. Frankly, I don't remember enough of the Georgetown game (repressed memory) but I don't recall him playing particularly poorly.

[Henry Sugar]

IMO, Crowder hasn't progressed since the end of last season. That's what is so frustrating. That and his unwillingness to put a body on somebody and actually box them out.

To respond to your two specific concerns.

Last season - 11.8 ppg / 6.8 rpg.  This season - 16.5 / 7.3.  

Against Syracuse - five defensive rebounds.  Against GU - six defensive rebounds.   In fact, he's nationally ranked at defensive rebounding percentage and is the best defensive rebounder on the team.  

Beyond that, he's the most efficient player on the team.  He's nationally ranked at block percentages and steal percentages.  He's nationally ranked at protecting the ball.  Crowder isn't just arguably the best player on Marquette.  He's arguably one of the best players in the country.  

Seriously, this is a topic?