Blue's FT motion

[MUMac]

That's OK.  Unless Mac wants to do this, it's way too much trouble on my end.

While that was likely the best post ever by esotericmindguy, I agree with Sultan.  Far too much trouble. But I appreciate the sentiment.

[GGGG]

While that was likely the best post ever by esotericmindguy,

Not a high bar to jump over...

[esotericmindguy]

Fact of the matter is, every time you're backed into a corner in a discussion you two just simply claim that the opposing poster just simply doesn't know basketball. Pretty convenient.

BTW, since our Blue discussion Vander has played 6 minutes under his average, Buzz obviously doesn't know basketball and is clearly just focusing on the offensive end.

[GGGG]

<sigh>

You *still* don't seem to get what I have been saying regarding Blue.  I have been saying that Blue has played very well...better than most people seem to think.  I fully acknowledged that he played poorly against UWM and Vandy, and that Mayo should get more minutes.  But yesterday was a typical example of the lack of understanding of what Blue brings to the floor....he has a solid game (as I said, not a great game) with a nice overall stat line.  Too many turnovers (although hardly excessive) and missed FTs though.  Furthermore, he had another very nice defensive effort, preventing penetration by Nova's guards...keeping them far out on the perimeter.

But people focus on the negative...including people literally calling him a "punk" because he didn't slap hands with a teammate.  Furthermore, I think a lot of this crap was fueled by the ridiculous comments by Mike Kelly including the "well, everyone around here is calling for Mayo to start and you have to be concerned about how that would affect him."  What?  That's just silly.  Mayo is *deservedly* playing more because of his offense, and Blue doesn't seem to have a problem.

I'm sorry, but when I see comments like that, I seriously have to wonder how much people know the game.  Go back to Wes Matthews sophomore year.  His stats are almost identical to Blue's this year...  Wes played more...scored more...turned the ball over more...  Blue has more assists and steals.  They shot almost identical.  Yet Wes grew to become an NBA regular!!!! 

11-12 Blue: 27.3 min, 9.6 pts, 4.1 rebs, 3.3 assts, 1.8 steals, 2.3 TOs, 43.1 FG%, 28.6 3FG%
06-07 Wes: 31.2 min, 12.6 pts, 5.3 rebs, 2.2 assts, 1.4 steals, 2.5 TOs, 43.8 FG%, 28.8 3FG%  

I don't remember *anyone* saying nearly the same types of things about Wes as they do about Vander.  It's almost inexplicable.

[4everwarriors]

The explanation is simple. Blue matriculated with greater credentials and a corresponding higher ceiling than Wes. Thus, the frustration. And, I think it shows not just with fans, but, it's obviously that Vander is troubled as well. I wonder just how happy he is at Marquette.

[GGGG]

The explanation is simple. Blue matriculated with greater credentials and a corresponding higher ceiling than Wes. Thus, the frustration. And, I think it shows not just with fans, but, it's obviously that Vander is troubled as well. I wonder just how happy he is at Marquette.

I agree that part of it was higher expectations.  I also think that Blue is more emotional and less mature than Wes was.  But that should color what they both objectively bring (brought) to the floor at this stages of their careers.

[We R Final Four]

Sultan--VB is leading the team in TOs.  66% FT shooter.  43% from the floor and 29% from 3s.  I don't think it is reasonable to think that these numbers will improve over the 'harder' part of the schedule.

Again, these cannot be the production numbers that you have prviously stated when you said that you expect a significant jump between his Frosh and Soph year is it?  I know, I know..he's a shutdown corner and you can't put a number on that.

[esotericmindguy]

I don't think they are close personally, and Sultan I know it's hard for you to imagine but I do understand your argument and choose to disagree. Its funny how you're using stats to evaluate Vander's performance vs. Wes, but I was told by you to look beyond the box score to see what Blue offers. Furthermore, if you look at Vander's stats vs top competition it's not even comparable to Wes. Blue entered conference last year with the same numbers as this year and finished much much lower. Wes significantly improved his stats during conference play his sophomore year, based on Blue's performance year to date I highly doubt he'll do that. I'd think someone with such a high level of basketball knowledge would be able to pick up on that. At this point calling him marginal or average is at the very least an opinion you can argue, don't you agree?

One thing I do agree with is the high five thing, he's very competitive and didn't want to give a high five after missing two more free throws.

I'll do my best in 2012 to write acceptable posts for you and mac to, sigh, have to waste you valuable time on responding.

[GGGG]

Again, these cannot be the production numbers that you have prviously stated when you said that you expect a significant jump between his Frosh and Soph year is it? 

Did I say that?  I literally just went through all of my posts since June and I didn't see anything that say I thought he would make a "significant jump."  I said that he would be improved...which he has...and that he would drive this board crazy...which he has.

If you can find it, I would happily admit that I have been wrong so far - his improvement has clearly not been "significant."

[GGGG]

I don't think they are close personally, and Sultan I know it's hard for you to imagine but I do understand your argument and choose to disagree. Its funny how you're using stats to evaluate Vander's performance vs. Wes, but I was told by you to look beyond the box score to see what Blue offers. Furthermore, if you look at Vander's stats vs top competition it's not even comparable to Wes. Blue entered conference last year with the same numbers as this year and finished much much lower. Wes significantly improved his stats during conference play his sophomore year, based on Blue's performance year to date I highly doubt he'll do that. I'd think someone with such a high level of basketball knowledge would be able to pick up on that. At this point calling him marginal or average is at the very least an opinion you can argue, don't you agree?

Maybe we just have different definitions of the word marginal.  I view D Wilson as marginal.  I view Jamail Jones as marginal.  I don't view a starter that plays 20+ minutes a game, and defends as well as he does, as marginal.

[We R Final Four]

Did I say that?  I literally just went through all of my posts since June and I didn't see anything that say I thought he would make a "significant jump."  I said that he would be improved...which he has...and that he would drive this board crazy...which he has.

If you can find it, I would happily admit that I have been wrong so far - his improvement has clearly not been "significant."

Vander is definately going to see an increase in minutes next year.  I don't think from 19 mpg to 25 mpg is that much of a stretch.  What other options are there?  Like it or not, him and Junior are essentially tied as the guards with the second most experience.

And I think he improves quite a bit going into year two.

Ok--cannot agree with you that VB has improved quite a bit.

[ErickJD08]

Ok--cannot agree with you that VB has improved quite a bit.

Burn.

[GGGG]

Ok--cannot agree with you that VB has improved quite a bit.

I would agree that "quite a bit" is a stretch.  BTW, if you REALLY wanted to knock me you could have pointed out in the same thread that I thought that Jamail would play a larger role than Mayo.

Burn.

Yeah...whatever will I do to live that down.

[MUMac]

Sultan--VB is leading the team in TOs.  66% FT shooter.  43% from the floor and 29% from 3s.  I don't think it is reasonable to think that these numbers will improve over the 'harder' part of the schedule.

Again, these cannot be the production numbers that you have prviously stated when you said that you expect a significant jump between his Frosh and Soph year is it?  I know, I know..he's a shutdown corner and you can't put a number on that.

It's interesting that you brought up the %'s.  I compared the stat lines of Mayo and Blue.  Mayo is significantly better at FT %, 3 Pt. % and TO's.  FG % is nearly identical, they have taken the same number of shots, Blue has made one more than Mayo.  Outside of that, though, Blue's stats are significantly better than Mayo's in every other category.  Rebounds (offense and defense), assists, blocks and steals.  They are similar size and play similar positions for MU.  Mayo is a year + older than Blue and some are saying they think Mayo will leave for the league early. 

That is the frustration that I and others have with the constant harping on Blue.  He has deficiencies on offense.  But, it seems as though every time people are critical of him, they do not consider the other aspects of his game. 

[ErickJD08]

I would agree that "quite a bit" is a stretch.  BTW, if you REALLY wanted to knock me you could have pointed out in the same thread that I thought that Jamail would play a larger role than Mayo.



Yeah...whatever will I do to live that down.

It's all good and fun. First, no way anyone could have predicted Mayo's early production. Second, I too thought Blue was going to make a big step. I thought all it would take is one off season to lifting and practice to be more effective around the basket. That certainly hasn't been the case. I was wrong too. Funny thing is that people want to believe that he is progressing so badly that they don't realize how far away he really is.

[ErickJD08]

It's interesting that you brought up the %'s.  I compared the stat lines of Mayo and Blue.  Mayo is significantly better at FT %, 3 Pt. % and TO's.  FG % is nearly identical, they have taken the same number of shots, Blue has made one more than Mayo.  Outside of that, though, Blue's stats are significantly better than Mayo's in every other category.  Rebounds (offense and defense), assists, blocks and steals.  They are similar size and play similar positions for MU.  Mayo is a year + older than Blue and some are saying they think Mayo will leave for the league early. 

That is the frustration that I and others have with the constant harping on Blue.  He has deficiencies on offense.  But, it seems as though every time people are critical of him, they do not consider the other aspects of his game. 

So what you are saying is that every time someone is critical of the kid, they need to finish the statement with "he plays good defense and rebounds well".

And BTW, one other stat Blue leads Mayo in is minutes. Blue plays 35% more than Mayo. Quite frankly, I don't think either one of them have been outstanding against higher competition. We can bring up stats but it is clear that Mayo brings a TON more to the table on the offensive end. Mayo can shoot the 3 (which is important because we don't have a ton of shooters) , mid range, and can finish. I would be perfectly happy with Buzz continually doing the situational subbing with those guys.

[We R Final Four]

I would agree that "quite a bit" is a stretch.  BTW, if you REALLY wanted to knock me you could have pointed out in the same thread that I thought that Jamail would play a larger role than Mayo.



Yeah...whatever will I do to live that down.

Sultan, I REALLY don't want to knowck you, that is not what this is-at least for me.  I just hope that Vander becomes the player that you think that he will.

[MUMac]

So what you are saying is that every time someone is critical of the kid, they need to finish the statement with "he plays good defense and rebounds well".

If that's what you got out of that, well, that explains a lot of the frustrating debates ... 

[ErickJD08]

If that's what you got out of that, well, that explains a lot of the frustrating debates ... 

How about explaining?  You just said he has defeciencies on offense but people ignore other aspects of the game. Therefore, you get frustrated when people criticize a part of his game without saying something that he does well.

Would love to read about another interpretation of what you said.

[MUMac]

How about explaining?  You just said he has defeciencies on offense but people ignore other aspects of the game. Therefore, you get frustrated when people criticize a part of his game without saying something that he does well.

Would love to read about another interpretation of what you said.

Where did I state the frustration you say above?  Have you read any of the threads on Blue this year?  You must have, you are one of his biggest critics.  Just go back and read the responses, that should help you understand.  One side acknowledges deficiencies, but also recognizes his strengths and values.  The other side tends to be focused solely on the offensive deficiencies and does not acknowledge the other aspects of his game.  If you don't understand, frankly there is nothing I could say to help you any longer. 

[ErickJD08]

It's interesting that you brought up the %'s.  I compared the stat lines of Mayo and Blue.  Mayo is significantly better at FT %, 3 Pt. % and TO's.  FG % is nearly identical, they have taken the same number of shots, Blue has made one more than Mayo.  Outside of that, though, Blue's stats are significantly better than Mayo's in every other category.  Rebounds (offense and defense), assists, blocks and steals.  They are similar size and play similar positions for MU.  Mayo is a year + older than Blue and some are saying they think Mayo will leave for the league early. 

That is the frustration that I and others have with the constant harping on Blue.  He has deficiencies on offense.  But, it seems as though every time people are critical of him, they do not consider the other aspects of his game. 

I read your posts but you see to forget your own words. The second paragraph references the frustration I quoted you on.

[MUMac]

I read your posts but you see to forget your own words. The second paragraph references the frustration I quoted you on.

See, you made up words in your response.  Making up a comment on your part does not constitute my forgetting my own words.  Hard to forget them when I did not say them.

Have at the response if you like.  I think the board can do without further silliness, so I am done.

[ErickJD08]

See, you made up words in your response.  Making up a comment on your part does not constitute my forgetting my own words.  Hard to forget them when I did not say them.

Have at the response if you like.  I think the board can do without further silliness, so I am done.

Lol. I just owned you. That's all.

[ringout]

Lol. I just owned you. That's all.

Are you having a nice dream?