Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This is life.  If you have great tickets for a Packer/Bears game where the face is $200, you sold them outside the stadium for $300 but you reject an offer from your friend to sell them for $400, would you be disappointed?  Yes.  Would you still be happy that you made $100 for doing nothing?  Yes.

He was billed as a 5 star recruit.  There are many 5 star recruits that look solid their freshmen year.  You expect a 5 star to be pretty polished in most areas and needing some a little work in other areas.  Blue came in very raw on offense as a 5 star freshmen guard.  So yes, I was disappointed.  We all saw potential and everyone expected a big bump from a year in the weight room and more practice.

We expected a big bump this year and we got a very tiny bump.  Without added a jumper, I still think the kid could be a 14ppg player if he could finish around the rim.  But as it stands, he has disappointed again.

This is life man.  He has huge potiential and he isn't close to where he could be.  Every first pick in the draft is expected to be an all star.  Being a role player would be a disappointment.  When I move on from my job and get my next pay bump, people are going to expect that I do bigger and better things than my previous place.  This isn't a popularity contest. 

- Junior was pretty highly ranked coming out of high school, and he is a decent role player, but it has taken him 3 years to get there.

- Jamail Jones can't even find the court as a soph.

- Jamil Wilson is very inconsistent, and his minutes reflect that.

A lot of highly recruited guys take time to develop. That's just the way it is.

Vander is no more special or worse than any of these guys. It takes some time. Cut the kid some slack.

[ringout]

They were just talking about this on SportsNation. Michelle Beadle said it was "sad."

Beadle and Cowsh*t only talk stupidity, so this 6 page thread is officially stupid.

[MUMac]

- Junior was pretty highly ranked coming out of high school, and he is a decent role player, but it has taken him 3 years to get there.

- Jamail Jones can't even find the court as a soph.

- Jamil Wilson is very inconsistent, and his minutes reflect that.

A lot of highly recruited guys take time to develop. That's just the way it is.

Vander is no more special or worse than any of these guys. It takes some time. Cut the kid some slack.

You could add EWill to the list from the past two years.

[Hards Alumni]

- Junior was pretty highly ranked coming out of high school, and he is a decent role player, but it has taken him 3 years to get there.

- Jamail Jones can't even find the court as a soph.

- Jamil Wilson is very inconsistent, and his minutes reflect that.

A lot of highly recruited guys take time to develop. That's just the way it is.

Vander is no more special or worse than any of these guys. It takes some time. Cut the kid some slack.

Especially kids from Wisconsin.  Give him some time.

[ErickJD08]

- Junior was pretty highly ranked coming out of high school, and he is a decent role player, but it has taken him 3 years to get there.

- Jamail Jones can't even find the court as a soph.

- Jamil Wilson is very inconsistent, and his minutes reflect that.

A lot of highly recruited guys take time to develop. That's just the way it is.

Vander is no more special or worse than any of these guys. It takes some time. Cut the kid some slack.

Junior was not as high as Blue was on the recruiting ranking.  Junior was billed as a pass first PG.  He was hurt his first year and played only a handful of minutes in the games he played in.  He came into his sophomore year and as the season progressed, he continued to play better and better.  This year, it is clear that he is a stronger finisher around the rim and the offense runs better with him on the court.

JJ can't find the court.  You're right.  I expect 4 star players to take a year to develop and maybe two.  If he isn't contributing on this team next year, then he will be a disappointment.

PT and contributions are not really a critical aspect for me.  A situation can dictate a bad player getting PT and even average players can fill some stats.  The point I have been making throughout this entire thing is that he is not developing that well on offense.  The kid has played a CRAPLOAD of minutes his freshmen year and this year.  This has not resulted in a "hands down" better player on offense.  He still makes terrible decisions when driving.  He still can not finish around the rim.  He still turns the ball over at a high rate.  He still is a poor shooter.  It is so clear that when a team can match his athletism, he performs poorly on the offensive end.  This is because his skillset is not as advanced as his athletism.

I truly believe that we will see Jamil really grow in the next couple of weeks with the more PT he gets.  I think you will see him start churning out more 10+ point games.  As for Blue, at this stage, my hope is that something just clicks and he learns to finish around the rim.  As I said before, I think he can still be very dangerous on offense if he just figured out how to make a layup in traffic.  Until then, he will be a nonfactor on offense.  And in my eyes, you can't be a good/great player if you are a nonfactor (or negative) on one side of the floor.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Junior was not as high as Blue was on the recruiting ranking.

Wrong. Using RSCI, which averages all rankings, Junior was #47, JWilson was #40, Blue was #48 and Jones was #74. 

Blue was rated a 5 star by Rivals only. One list left him out ofthe the top 100 completely.

[reinko]

Wrong. Using RSCI, which averages all rankings, Junior was #47, JWilson was #40, Blue was #48 and Jones was #74. 

Blue was rated a 5 star by Rivals only. One list left him out ofthe the top 100 completely.

Facts are for nerds.

[ErickJD08]

Wrong. Using RSCI, which averages all rankings, Junior was #47, JWilson was #40, Blue was #48 and Jones was #74. 

Blue was rated a 5 star by Rivals only. One list left him out ofthe the top 100 completely.

I stand corrected.  At the end of the day, Junior has made big stride from the time he started playing for MU til now.  Blue hasn't developed very well on offense.  Hopefully he starts to show it because if he does, we could be really tough to beat on offense.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I stand corrected.  At the end of the day, Junior has made big stride from the time he started playing for MU til now.  Blue hasn't developed very well on offense.  Hopefully he starts to show it because if he does, we could be really tough to beat on offense.

Junior gets credit for taking a big stride?

Blue is arguably already a better player and he is a year younger.

Oh, and as far as Jamil avg. 10pts per game for the rest of the year, I'll take that bet. Name the stakes.

[ErickJD08]

Junior gets credit for taking a big stride?

Blue is arguably already a better player and he is a year younger.

Oh, and as far as Jamil avg. 10pts per game for the rest of the year, I'll take that bet. Name the stakes.

And JC shouldn't get credit because???

JC is a PG.  They do different things but if we are grading on PG position (Blue plays that position at times) JC is a better PG.  The offense runs so much smoother with JC in at PG.  And again, if you don't think getting an injury that prevents you from playing stuns your development, that's fine.  I think it does.  So I think that is why his play was so bad his freshmen year, but then you saw him get better his sophomore year.  And this year he is better.  I also think that PT helps accelerate development and JC has about 15 more minutes of PT than Blue. 

As for Jamil, I said Jamil will START getting 10+ games.  I don't think he will do that on a consistent basis from here on out.  If he minutes stick to about 21-24pg, I think he will average about 8 points, 6 rebounds.  I see his game improving though and I thought in the beginning of the season, he looked a bit out of place.  Once he settles into a role, he will start producing more.

I am just confused as to why you have to start other players when its obvious that Blue's offensive development/skillset isn't where it should be.  Oh well.

[MerrittsMustache]

I am just confused as to why you have to start other players when its obvious that Blue's offensive development/skillset isn't where it should be.  Oh well.

Where should his offensive skillset be? At the end of last season, if someone told you that on January 4, Blue would be averaging 9.4 points, shooting 43% from the floor, and would be doubling his assist per game average, would you have complained?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I am just confused as to why you have to start other players when its obvious that Blue's offensive development/skillset isn't where it should be.  Oh well.

Here's where I'm at: (and then we can drop the subject for a while)
- Vander's offensive skills are raw and still unrefined
- He's not where I hoped he'd be at this point, but I still see a lot of upside

I think we both agree on this. Easy.

With this said, there is a discrepancy with how much heat the kid takes (in my opinion).

When he makes mistakes (missed lay-up, turnover, missed high 5, etc.) there are several posts/threads about it with insightful opinions like "He can't make a lay-up!".

Every other player seems to get the benefit of the doubt, that's why I bring them up.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Where should his offensive skillset be? At the end of last season, if someone told you that on January 4, Blue would be averaging 9.4 points, shooting 43% from the floor, and would be doubling his assist per game average, would you have complained?

Yes, because he is a 5* player.

[ErickJD08]

Where should his offensive skillset be? At the end of last season, if someone told you that on January 4, Blue would be averaging 9.4 points, shooting 43% from the floor, and would be doubling his assist per game average, would you have complained?

I wouldn't complain... I would want to see how he is doing it though.  First off, the struggles against higher competition.  Against teams from major conferences, he is averaging 7.5ppg and shooting 35% and his A/T ratio is 1:1.  That is not very good.  On top of that, the majority of his shots he takes are from drives.  You should have a better percentage when you shoot layups.

His skill set should be something... anything.  Typically during the development of a player's offense, you see them develop something that they can depend on.  Three point shooting, mid range shooting, or layups.  Then, they build on it.  He had nothing he could depend on last year, and he is in the same position this year.  With his ability to get to the rim, I would have thought he would have improved his finishing skills.  He didn't.  Fine.  But he didn't really improve his shooting either.  So again, he is stuck being ineffective on offense.

I hope my opinion of him changes after tonight because we are going to need him.  But with the size in the lane, based on what I have seen,  he is going to be swatted about 3 times with at least one resulting in a fast break layup or three and a bunch of contested missed layups.

[MerrittsMustache]

Did anyone notice that at one point late in the 1st half, Vander came out of the game and high fived Buzz, the coaching staff and then went the entire length of the bench delivering "slaps of 5?"

[🏀]

Did anyone notice that at one point late in the 1st half, Vander came out of the game and high fived Buzz, the coaching staff and then went the entire length of the bench delivering "slaps of 5?"

Delivering '5s'? No wonder we lost the game, Blue is too busy trying to get on ESPN again to care about the game.

DERP DERP DERP DERP DERP DERP

[ringout]

Did anyone notice that at one point late in the 1st half, Vander came out of the game and high fived Buzz, the coaching staff and then went the entire length of the bench delivering "slaps of 5?"

Good for Vander.  Stick it in your ear Mike Kelley.  No More Access for You!

[Hoopaloop]

I'm sure others who watched saw Mike Kelly roll replay of Vander coming out of game and Wilson offering him a handshake/five..several times and Vander just ignored him...

If I'm Wilson, I pull Vander aside and tell him if I offer you a 5..several times and you blow me off 3 times...next time I'm gonna punch you in the mouth.  Which we all know Wilson could destroy Vander if it came to blows...

+1

It wasn't the only time this game that he did it.  There was a point on the baseline when several teammates tried to give him some love and he looked right at them and walked away.  He has done it in other games as well.  Seems as though he is a moody individual.  Show your teammates some love, accept their well wishes.  This kind of behavior can put a cancer in the locker room.

[MU B2002]

Yawn.  So now he is a cancer?  What a joke.

[MUMac]

+1

It wasn't the only time this game that he did it.  There was a point on the baseline when several teammates tried to give him some love and he looked right at them and walked away.  He has done it in other games as well.  Seems as though he is a moody individual.  Show your teammates some love, accept their well wishes.  This kind of behavior can put a cancer in the locker room.

I was looking for similar comments from you in the thread discussing when Jae not only did not give the love back to Junior on Saturday, but yelled at him.  Jae is a cancer as well, right?

[brewcity77]

+1

It wasn't the only time this game that he did it.  There was a point on the baseline when several teammates tried to give him some love and he looked right at them and walked away.  He has done it in other games as well.  Seems as though he is a moody individual.  Show your teammates some love, accept their well wishes.  This kind of behavior can put a cancer in the locker room.

Seriously? What is your obsession with reviving dead threads? This was 11 days old. The discussion to be had was had a week and a half ago.

Okay...new term. Any time someone bumps a thread that is 10+ days old and clearly dead, it will heretofore be known as "Hooping". So instead of asking why someone bumped that old thing, we can ask "Hey man, why you Hooping?"

[jtrash37]

Seriously? What is your obsession with reviving dead threads? This was 11 days old. The discussion to be had was had a week and a half ago.

Okay...new term. Any time someone bumps a thread that is 10+ days old and clearly dead, it will heretofore be known as "Hooping". So instead of asking why someone bumped that old thing, we can ask "Hey man, why you Hooping?"

LOVE IT!

[GGGG]

I'm just happy that Ners and Chicos agreed on something.

[ringout]

I'm just happy that Ners and Chicos agreed on something.

HE IS NOT CHICOS!

[leever]

HE IS NOT CHICOS!

But he'd like to be.