Chicago look around

[Sir Lawrence]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/23/sports/ncaabasketball/college-hoops-fans-in-chicago-area-must-look-around.html?_r=1

"Marquette looks to be the horse to ride....."

Dan McGrath surveys the Chicago college hoops scene.

[Lighthouse 84]

Dan McGrath is always a good read.  Even better when he talks Marquette.

[GGGG]

Hoo...I wonder what the DePaul boards think of that...

[dgies9156]

Hoo...I wonder what the DePaul boards think of that...

Who the heck cares? When they become relevant again, maybe someone will notice.

Maybe not!

[MU82]

Dan is a friend and former colleague, not to mention a proud MU alum. My only quibble with this piece is this: Why is Indiana automatically more likely to produce Final Four teams than Marquette?

Even if one accepts that Indiana's tradition is superior to ours, tradition does not equal success. If it did, UCLA would be in the Final Four every year, Notre Dame would win every national football title, the Packers would be in the Super Bowl more than once every 15 years, the Yankees would never lose a playoff series, etc.

Based on all evidence so far, I'll take my chances at Marquette with Williams over Indiana with Crean.

[ringout]

Dan is a friend and former colleague, not to mention a proud MU alum. My only quibble with this piece is this: Why is Indiana automatically more likely to produce Final Four teams than Marquette?

Even if one accepts that Indiana's tradition is superior to ours, tradition does not equal success. If it did, UCLA would be in the Final Four every year, Notre Dame would win every national football title, the Packers would be in the Super Bowl more than once every 15 years, the Yankees would never lose a playoff series, etc.

Based on all evidence so far, I'll take my chances at Marquette with Williams over Indiana with Crean.

Crean went with the path of least resistance.  Great HS hoops players, who automatically want to go to IU.  Whether his coaching style, personality and ability translate that to Final 4s, we'll see.  Buzz is making up for lack of local talent by with strategic recruiting in hoops hotbeds.  You don't need local talent to win.  (See Kansas).

[WellsstreetWanderer]

The article was a look at the Chicago Hoops scene and had to include everybody. well written and a good perspective on the Chicago basketball stage.

[Golden Avalanche]

Dan is a friend and former colleague, not to mention a proud MU alum. My only quibble with this piece is this: Why is Indiana automatically more likely to produce Final Four teams than Marquette?

Even if one accepts that Indiana's tradition is superior to ours, tradition does not equal success. If it did, UCLA would be in the Final Four every year, Notre Dame would win every national football title, the Packers would be in the Super Bowl more than once every 15 years, the Yankees would never lose a playoff series, etc.

Based on all evidence so far, I'll take my chances at Marquette with Williams over Indiana with Crean.

Pretty simple, really: Their coach has been to a Final Four. Ours hasn't yet.

[Dawson Rental]

Dan is a friend and former colleague, not to mention a proud MU alum. My only quibble with this piece is this: Why is Indiana automatically more likely to produce Final Four teams than Marquette?

Even if one accepts that Indiana's tradition is superior to ours, tradition does not equal success. If it did, UCLA would be in the Final Four every year, Notre Dame would win every national football title, the Packers would be in the Super Bowl more than once every 15 years, the Yankees would never lose a playoff series, etc.

Based on all evidence so far, I'll take my chances at Marquette with Williams over Indiana with Crean.

The state of Indiana has always produced more than its share of HS B-ball talent, and many, if not most, of them think first of IU as the place to play their college ball.  Given that, anytime MU is regularly outperforming IU, we're way ahead of the game.  The only way it ever happens is when we have an exceptional coach which appears to be the case now.  With Crean taking advantage of several above average classes of talent in Indiana, it will be especially tough for the next four to five years.

[tower912]

Pretty simple, really: Their coach has been to a Final Four. Ours hasn't yet.

Which one has won more tourney games without Dwyane Wade?

[MUMac]

Pretty simple, really: Their coach has been to a Final Four. Ours hasn't yet.

So, if Crean were here and Buzz at IU, then MU would be more likely to go to a Final 4?  I am guessing that fact had little to no impact in the comment.  More likely the difference in talent level and ability to attract it within the state had a MUCH bigger impact.

[mr.MUskie]

The state of Indiana has always produced more than its share of HS B-ball talent, and many, if not most, of them think first of IU as the place to play their college ball.  Given that, anytime MU is regularly outperforming IU, we're way ahead of the game.  The only way it ever happens is when we have an exceptional coach which appears to be the case now.  With Crean taking advantage of several above average classes of talent in Indiana, it will be especially tough for the next four to five years.

How come Indiana's farmboys are better basketball players than Wisconsin's farmboys?  Both states are largely rural, have comparable mid-size cities (Milw/Indy), (Madison/Gary), yet Indiana produces far more players than Wisconsin.  Why?

[Benny B]

How come Indiana's farmboys are better basketball players than Wisconsin's farmboys?  Both states are largely rural, have comparable mid-size cities (Milw/Indy), (Madison/Gary), yet Indiana produces far more players than Wisconsin.  Why?

Because everyone in Indiana plays basketball.

[4everwarriors]

And everyone in Wisconsin plays cribbage.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Because everyone in Indiana plays basketball.

"Most do, but not all go out for the team."

[NersEllenson]

So, if Crean were here and Buzz at IU, then MU would be more likely to go to a Final 4?  I am guessing that fact had little to no impact in the comment.  More likely the difference in talent level and ability to attract it within the state had a MUCH bigger impact.

Take anything Golden Avalanche writes with a grain of salt - it is all written from the perspective of:  Tom Crean is a GOD, Buzz Williams sucks...you will notice the common theme in all of his posts.

As we all know - Crean left MU because he couldn't land consistent top talent - about 1 in 3 classes was decent.  He could not land consistent Top 100, back to back talent...at MU.  Hell he couldn't even get it done at It's Indiana, It's Indiana, until he got cozy with the Indiana Elite AAU coach and Board of Directors...so much so that ESPN did an expose piece on the borderline sleaziness of it.

And as for the original comment by Avalanche - because "their coach has been to a Final Four, ours has not."  Comedy.  Should have said - their coach rode D-Wade to a Final Four, but other than that, in 12 years as a head coach at a Division 1 program, he has won exactly 1 NCAA tourney game.  Buzz already has 3 NCAA wins in 3 years.  So Tom Crean has been a head coach exactly 4 times longer than Buzz, yet has a total of 5 NCAA tourney wins (with D-Wade). 

I'll never understand why some are intent on discrediting the merit of our current coach, to try to champion our previous coach.  Don't hate Crean at all, just those who belittle our current coach due to some bizarre desire to champion a man who chose to leave MU.

[Golden Avalanche]

So, if Crean were here and Buzz at IU, then MU would be more likely to go to a Final 4?  I am guessing that fact had little to no impact in the comment.  More likely the difference in talent level and ability to attract it within the state had a MUCH bigger impact.

Disagree. McGrath being a MU guy knows that Wisconsin is barren in terms of talent so can't imagine him basing it on that alone. The writer also knows that since Al, Marquette's main prospects have mostly all come from out of state. What's the next step?

Coaching. Media members will always fall back on what has been accomplished before. It's the reason many picked Butler last year in the NCAAs to do some damage (even with a weaker team than the previous season) since a Final Four coach in Stevens was at the helm. Turns out, they were right.

If you've gotten a team to that level, you will be seen as more likely to do it again then any random young coach doing it once in the media's eyes. The pool is limited for those who have done it. The pool is enormous for those who had the "potential" to earn a berth and never did.

Go with the safer bet: the guy who's done it before.

[GGGG]

How come Indiana's farmboys are better basketball players than Wisconsin's farmboys?  Both states are largely rural, have comparable mid-size cities (Milw/Indy), (Madison/Gary), yet Indiana produces far more players than Wisconsin.  Why?

Well, I live in Indiana.  It is much more ingrained in the culture here and people play it from a very early age.  The youth coaching is also very good because IMO they focus on fundamentals very early.  

[MountainCreekHouse]

How come Indiana's farmboys are better basketball players than Wisconsin's farmboys?  Both states are largely rural, have comparable mid-size cities (Milw/Indy), (Madison/Gary), yet Indiana produces far more players than Wisconsin.  Why?

I too live in Indiana. I agree that people just play it more here. Whenever I go home for breaks during the school year (back home to Indy), whether its fall break, thanksgiving break, or winter break, it is very unusual for me and my buddies not to play basketball at least once. None of us played in high school either, which kind of tells you how much people play there.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I know this will be an unpopular view, but I think IU will make a final 4 before MU.

MU has made 1 final four in the past 30+ years, and that was with a once in a generation player.

The stars have to align perfectly for MU to make it. IU has a bigger margin for error.

[MUMac]

Disagree. McGrath being a MU guy knows that Wisconsin is barren in terms of talent so can't imagine him basing it on that alone. The writer also knows that since Al, Marquette's main prospects have mostly all come from out of state. What's the next step?

Coaching. Media members will always fall back on what has been accomplished before. It's the reason many picked Butler last year in the NCAAs to do some damage (even with a weaker team than the previous season) since a Final Four coach in Stevens was at the helm. Turns out, they were right.

If you've gotten a team to that level, you will be seen as more likely to do it again then any random young coach doing it once in the media's eyes. The pool is limited for those who have done it. The pool is enormous for those who had the "potential" to earn a berth and never did.

Go with the safer bet: the guy who's done it before.

Do you really think this post makes sense?  WOW.

[Golden Avalanche]

Do you really think this post makes sense?  WOW.

Help me?

[NersEllenson]

Help me?

Can't help a lost cause...don't waste your time Mac!

[MUMac]

Help me?

Go back and use backspace all the way through.  Then type NT.  That would make sense.  What you posted did not. 

[Golden Avalanche]

Go back and use backspace all the way through.  Then type NT.  That would make sense.  What you posted did not. 

It's fine to think I'm stupid (which you do). It's fine to think I'm an ass (which you do). But, at the least, you could explain your different thoughts rather then offer nothing. The condescension just after the Christmas greeting is especially ironic.

My main point, explained above, is when it comes to predictions you will find media members more often than not selecting those who have accomplished the milestone in question. Do you not see why they take the safer bet?

Personally, I think Buzz has more talent present and near future then Crean. If you agree, which I'm sure you will, what other reason than the coach would McGrath assert that Indiana will reach the Final Four before Marquette does next?