Fight at the end of Xavier-Cinci game

[GGGG]

And....time for the DA to get involved.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/ncaa/12/12/Xavier.Cincinnati.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a9&eref=sihp

[Golden Avalanche]

If you think that is what started this thing, well, words cannot describe.

Maybe it was Holloway's taunting of the bench, coming down the court, getting in Guyn's face, throwing a punch at the same time Lyons comes over and takes down Guyn?  Nah, all Guyn's fault.   

These suspensions are a joke.  Holloway, Lyons and Wells should all be gone longer for X.  Gates and Mbodj should be a minimum of 10 games. 

Actually, it all started mid last week when Kilpatrick of Cincinnati was on the radio publicly dressing down Tu Holloway's talent.

Right then, you knew some crap would happen during the game. That is why Holloway was so active in his taunting of the Leprechaun's bench.

[PVMagic]

Actually, it all started mid last week when Kilpatrick of Cincinnati was on the radio publicly dressing down Tu Holloway's talent.

I grew up in Cincinnati a mile from where Xavier plays.  This sort of thing is typical (actually, the rivalry has toned down over the last few years since Huggy Bear's departure until these recent incidents).  The players are very familiar with each other from playing in the offseason (a big reason I think XU was able to upset #1 UC more than once was that they weren't at all physically intimidated, which I thought was one of the reasons those UC teams excelled).  I'm not surprised there was jawing, always is, but I'm surprised it kept going as long as it did.  Ugly day for the Queen city and one of the best rivalries in college basketball.

[MUMac]

It's quite a jump to take the statement that Dieters is going "to review the incident" and surmise that he's grandstanding.

However, I do not think it's out of bounds for a DA or prosecutor to get involved if the incident itself crosses the line of "activities expected in the course of competition".  Regardless of whether it happens in a back alley, a liquor store, a high school playground or in a basketball arena, the DA's responsibility is to prosecute a crime.

For anyone who wants to excuse assault and battery simply because it happened in a sporting environment, please answer this... if Tiger Woods maliciously squared his driver in the back of Phil Mickelson's head, would you recommend that the DA in such jurisdiction simply "mind his own business" because it happened during a sporting event?

It wasn't a statement. It was a question.  Didn't you catch the "?"?

[wadesworld]

Actually, it all started mid last week when Kilpatrick of Cincinnati was on the radio publicly dressing down Tu Holloway's talent.

Right then, you knew some crap would happen during the game. That is why Holloway was so active in his taunting of the Leprechaun's bench.

I have heard this is the case, but I have also heard that the interviewer worded the question so that it was pretty difficult for Kilpatrick to answer.  I didn't hear the interview so I don't know, and maybe I'm just misremembering hearing that or was just told wrong, but wasn't it something about asking him whether Tu would start on Cinci's team?  What is a kid on Cinci supposed to say?  If he says "Yes, he would start on our team," then it could come off as a lack of confidence in his starting point guard, even though that wouldn't be the case at all since Tu is "the best point guard (player?) in the country" (don't tell JFB that...).  If I was in the position and asked that question, I would probably try to dodge the question and say how great Tu is but that we have a great point guard as well, blah blah.  But that's not the best question to ask someone before they go into a game with a rival.

And as Cronin said in his post game press conference, grow up.  If that was the case and Tu felt disrespected by the answer so much that he felt he had to jaw at the Cinci bench all game, then the kid isn't as tough as he tries to make himself sound.  Nowhere near it.

Plus, with his comments in the hallway after he made a fool of himself in the press conference with this article (posted here earlier), it seems pretty clear he went into the game with the intention of starting something, regardless of what was said by a Cinci player on the radio or not:

"From Cincinnati Enquirer:

"We're grown men over here," Holloway explained. "We got a whole bunch of gangsters in the locker room. Not thugs, but tough guys on the court."

Holloway readily admitted to taunting the UC bench, coaches and players, as the clock wound down. "I talked to that whole staff. I said this is my city. I'm cut from a different cloth. None of them guys on their team is like me. I let the whole staff know none of them was like me," he said.

If you watch Holloway play, that's evident. No one is like him. He is often the best player on the floor. He doesn't need to prove a thing. "Isn't the play enough?" I asked Holloway, in a hallway near the Xavier locker room, after the press conference.

"That's what the Crosstown Shootout is about," he said. "Guys getting ejected, guys throwing elbows."

I thought it was about a basketball game.

"You don't let people disrespect you. That's what I'm about. I don't regret anything that happened," said Holloway"

Complete fool, if you ask me.

[MUMac]

Actually, it all started mid last week when Kilpatrick of Cincinnati was on the radio publicly dressing down Tu Holloway's talent.

Right then, you knew some crap would happen during the game. That is why Holloway was so active in his taunting of the Leprechaun's bench.

So some quotes made Tu act like an idiot?  A pretty weak player, then.

[Lennys Tap]

I have heard this is the case, but I have also heard that the interviewer worded the question so that it was pretty difficult for Kilpatrick to answer.  I didn't hear the interview so I don't know, and maybe I'm just misremembering hearing that or was just told wrong, but wasn't it something about asking him whether Tu would start on Cinci's team?  What is a kid on Cinci supposed to say?  If he says "Yes, he would start on our team," then it could come off as a lack of confidence in his starting point guard, even though that wouldn't be the case at all since Tu is "the best point guard (player?) in the country" (don't tell JFB that...).  If I was in the position and asked that question, I would probably try to dodge the question and say how great Tu is but that we have a great point guard as well, blah blah.  But that's not the best question to ask someone before they go into a game with a rival.

And as Cronin said in his post game press conference, grow up.  If that was the case and Tu felt disrespected by the answer so much that he felt he had to jaw at the Cinci bench all game, then the kid isn't as tough as he tries to make himself sound.  Nowhere near it.

Plus, with his comments in the hallway after he made a fool of himself in the press conference with this article (posted here earlier), it seems pretty clear he went into the game with the intention of starting something, regardless of what was said by a Cinci player on the radio or not:

"From Cincinnati Enquirer:

"We're grown men over here," Holloway explained. "We got a whole bunch of gangsters in the locker room. Not thugs, but tough guys on the court."

Holloway readily admitted to taunting the UC bench, coaches and players, as the clock wound down. "I talked to that whole staff. I said this is my city. I'm cut from a different cloth. None of them guys on their team is like me. I let the whole staff know none of them was like me," he said.

If you watch Holloway play, that's evident. No one is like him. He is often the best player on the floor. He doesn't need to prove a thing. "Isn't the play enough?" I asked Holloway, in a hallway near the Xavier locker room, after the press conference.

"That's what the Crosstown Shootout is about," he said. "Guys getting ejected, guys throwing elbows."

I thought it was about a basketball game.

"You don't let people disrespect you. That's what I'm about. I don't regret anything that happened," said Holloway"

Complete fool, if you ask me.

+1

[karavotsos]

Obviously, the fight was horrible and stupid.

Regarding Tu Holloway's comments, I don't understand why Xavier let him and Lyons go into an NCAA-style press conference after the game.  Stupid.  I don't remember players going to press conferences like that even after regular games.  Maybe they just don't show them, but I wouldn't think that if players regularly had post-game pressers there would be film up somewhere of these things.

In any case, even if it was the norm to have post-game pressers for players, there's no way I would have let it happen as a coach/AD.  Think about how fired up Buzz was after they beat Georgetown.  He was a grown man and a coach, and he did not even know how to speak post-game.  He chewed out McIlvaine so bad, McIlvaine is still afraid to ask him a question post-game, and its three years later.  You expect a kid to handle it better, after he's just been in a fight?  That's idiotic.

Finally, I just think its funny how everyone quotes the gangster comment, and no one says anything about the team motto being, 'zip 'em up.'  I think 'zip 'em up' is the more problematic rhetorical phrase.  Maybe its just me.

[Marqus Howard]

Obviously, the fight was horrible and stupid.

Regarding Tu Holloway's comments, I don't understand why Xavier let him and Lyons go into an NCAA-style press conference after the game.  Stupid.  I don't remember players going to press conferences like that even after regular games.  Maybe they just don't show them, but I wouldn't think that if players regularly had post-game pressers there would be film up somewhere of these things.

In any case, even if it was the norm to have post-game pressers for players, there's no way I would have let it happen as a coach/AD.  Think about how fired up Buzz was after they beat Georgetown.  He was a grown man and a coach, and he did not even know how to speak post-game.  He chewed out McIlvaine so bad, McIlvaine is still afraid to ask him a question post-game, and its three years later.  You expect a kid to handle it better, after he's just been in a fight?  That's idiotic.

Finally, I just think its funny how everyone quotes the gangster comment, and no one says anything about the team motto being, 'zip 'em up.'  I think 'zip 'em up' is the more problematic rhetorical phrase.  Maybe its just me.

I agree with most of what you said, especially the part about "zip 'em up," but I think it's fairly commonplace for players to speak after the games, especially wins. I believe Vander and Jae spoke after the Green Bay game, for example. It might not be the best idea, but it happens. They have to learn somehow.

[CTWarrior]

Where were the referees in all of this?  The first time Holloway was yapping at the Cinci bench he should have been warned.  The second time he should have been T'd up.  That would have ended it right there.  There are 3 refs and I find it hard to believe they didn't hear this nonsense before it escalated out of hand.

Ultimately you blame the participants, of course (and whatever happened to your mom telling you 1,000 times as a kid that "sticks and stones may break your bones, but names will never hurt you"?  What do they say now, "You gotta keep it real"?  Yes, my total understanding of hip-hop culture comes from 5 year old Chappelle show reruns).  The referees could have nipped this in the bud a lot earlier.  Especially when the game became one-sided, they could have doled out T's without worrying about affecting the outcome of the game.

[Golden Avalanche]

So some quotes made Tu act like an idiot?  A pretty weak player, then.

There have been questions about his mental make-up from the time he committed to Indiana. Wouldn't shock me that it would set him off.

In fact, I still think there's some residual issues between Holloway and MU after last year's NCAA game. We're blessed to have kids who don't react to little bullcrap most of the time, Amoroso excluded.

[Norm]

There have been questions about his mental make-up from the time he committed to Indiana. Wouldn't shock me that it would set him off.

In fact, I still think there's some residual issues between Holloway and MU after last year's NCAA game. We're blessed to have kids who don't react to little bullcrap most of the time, Amoroso excluded.

And MU pretty much shut down Holloway in that game if I remember correctly.

[LON]

Yep, he's real tough:

It was arguably Tu Holloway's worst game of his career at Xavier.  And maybe the worst night of his basketball life.

In the waning moments of a loss to Marquette in the NCAA Tournament this past March, Holloway was crying on the bench.  Just 5 points to go with 5 turnovers.  And the tears would reappear over the summer, at times when nobody was watching Holloway shoot jumpshots alone inside Cintas Center.  The tears would come back, just thinking about that night in Cleveland.  "I had faith that there would be better days ahead," Holloway told me over the summer, after he decided to return to school for his senior season.

http://www.local12.com/content/local_sports/commentary/story/Zachs-Blog-December-3rd/wFlga9vMj0i5krS9vthkkQ.cspx

[Steve Buscemi]

In the waning moments of a loss to Marquette in the NCAA Tournament this past March, Holloway was crying on the bench. 

No cryin' allowed in gangsta's paradise!