Is Vander Blue Heading For The Same Treatment As Dominic James/Scott Merritt?

[Golden Avalanche]

I think those two were the most divisive players I've seen in my 15 years of closely watching the program. For each guy, there was a contingent of fans who would never, ever see the positive aspects of their play. They saw ups and downs in their career but to this day its the contemptible fan reactions I remember most about DJ and SM.

Are we seeing the early stages of Vander joining that duo?

[MUMac]

I made that point in another thread and Merritt'sMustache added Buycks to the list.  I think it is appropriate to include Buycks in that list.

To answer your question, yes.  Pretty sad, too.

[mu03eng]

I made that point in another thread and Merritt'sMustache added Buycks to the list.  I think it is appropriate to include Buycks in that list.

To answer your question, yes.  Pretty sad, too.

On this particular forum, maybe....but I'm waiting to see what rumblings I see at games.  I think he could end up in this unfortunate group but I don't think we can tell until the end of this year.  This is why underselling and overdelivering is ALWAYS the way to go.

[tower912]

Big fan of Dominic James, always frustrated by Merritt.   But I thank them both for their contributions to MU hoops.  Just as I will one day thank Vander.

[ringout]

Merritt and Dom both had pretty good freshman years, and didn't seem to progress at the same rate in later years.  While I was not an aggressive detractor of them, I was disappointed that they didn't progress from seemingly good 1st years.

Vander's 1st year PT was based on D.  Any O he gave us was a bonus.  I think Vander has more upside.

[CTWarrior]

I always liked Merritt (a solid but imperfect player) and always really liked James but was not fond of Blue the player at all last year.  I never understood why he was getting so many minutes while he was just killing us on the offensive end of the floor.  If he so much as touched the ball on a possession, our chances of scoring seemingly went down 50%.

So now I have lowered expectations for him.  He was a young freshman a little over his head last year.  He's had a year to figure things out.  I feel like he is going to be a very useful player for us, just not the superstar the hype from a little over a year ago would have led us to believe.  I loved that steal and pass to win the game against Norfolk State on Monday.  That says a lot about the kid that he shrugged off a bad night and made a big play at winning time.  

Right now he is a good player in an up and down full court game.  He's got to find his niche in the grind-it-out halfcourt games we're liable to play against some of our better opponents and when the BEast season starts.

In the end, I think if he continues to play the way he did last year he'll be a polarizing figure, but if he improves like players usually do he won't.

[MisterJaylenBrownMU]

I'm amazed by how many of these threads keep popping up.  Does it even register that the more threads that exist questioning why people are disappointed with a player, the more chances people have to justify why they aren't bullish on Blue, and the more it seems like there's a vitriol in the community for the guy?

For everything posted on the internet, there will always be someone that says the polar opposite just to get a reaction.  I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about what Blue's ceiling is, how much he can progress this year, what he means to this year's team, and what he needs to do to take that next step.  It's a divisive issue because he's potentially important to this team's upside and he's (in my opinion) not far from making that next step and becoming a dangerous offensive weapon.  But the internet isn't the best place to have that conversation if you're bugged by negative opinions on a player.

I'm just saying.  If you don't like the conversation, don't start it.  

[DienerTime34]

This is more of a battle between posters who support Marquette 100% no matter what and those who lose their minds at a moment's notice.

For the rational people, we all love DJ, Merritt and Blue, except in the following cases: DJ shooting a free throw or fading three feet to the side on a 3-pointer, Merritt with his travel spin move in the lane or Vander shooting 0-for-7.

[Aughnanure]

This is more of a battle between posters who support Marquette 100% no matter what and those who lose their minds at a moment's notice.

For the rational people, we all love DJ, Merritt and Blue, except in the following cases: DJ shooting a free throw or fading three feet to the side on a 3-pointer, Merritt with his travel spin move in the lane or Vander shooting 0-for-7.

You may be misremembering, but DJ was pretty clutch in multiple games hitting threes and free throws. He got a bad rap for FTs b/c of his poor free throw shooting start his senior yr.

I would also add McNeal to this list, he was always easy for people to jump on b/c of his TOs. DJ will forever remain my favorite part of that team for 4 yrs, and it does hurt to hear that he got sour about how MU fans treated him.

[77ncaachamps]

It was sad to see the lack of development TC and staff did with Scott.
It was like they signed him to add to the arsenal but he got quickly overlooked with Diener and Novak.

[ringout]

This is more of a battle between posters who support Marquette 100% no matter what and those who lose their minds at a moment's notice.

For the rational people, we all love DJ, Merritt and Blue, except in the following cases: DJ shooting a free throw or fading three feet to the side on a 3-pointer, Merritt with his travel spin move in the lane or Vander shooting 0-for-7.

You are spot on.  Merritt not using his bulk in the lane was mindbending.

[dw3dw3dw3]

You are spot on.  Merritt not using his bulk in the lane was mindbending.

+1, I would add that VB and DJ are at a similar junction during their sophomore years. With all the hype DJ had coming back, his play was somewhat of a disappointment after the Duke win in KC that year. It was difficult for him to accept that he was not an all around 20ppg point guard. When he figured out defense and quarterbacking were going to be his calling card during his junior/senior years, he shot up 10 rungs in my all-time MU player list to Top 5 territory (post 1996). Ultimately if he continued to play like Chris Thomas (and Chris Thomas was a much better shooter), we wouldn't have made it to the NCAA's. It was amazing how many possessions ended up in 25-30 ft bombs those couple years, even more amazing was that we kept winning for the most part with those wasted possessions.

Vander's offensive game may change to where he's an all around threat, but I kind of think we would have seen some glimpses of that last year. His ability to change a game with defense like Dominic, I believe, will be where he has the most value to MU.

[brewcity77]

I think much of this comes from massive expectations. DJ was Crean's highest rated recruit, #36 RSCI as I remember. Merritt was the rare top-100 hometown big man. And Blue is hyped as the five-star gold-medal winner. In the past decade, have there been any MU players that came in with more fanfare, and thus had more room for criticism, than those three?

We're seeing shades of another local, Jamil Wilson, being lined up for similar treatment. It makes me wonder if Deonte Burton might face similar detractors if he isn't a superstar from day one. And maybe this kind of pressure, as much as the crazy father, was the reason Jeronne Maymon felt UT was a better fit.

 

[muball]

remember that Merrit had the shoulder problem which really impacted his game in the post. Funny how people read the hype on an unproven HS star and then expect miracles and if they dont meet the high expectations people say they failed. Well I for one would take a DJ or Scott on my team anytime as would most coaches. So just let VB work his way thru college and he may not meet your expectations but remember those are yours and not those of his teammates and coaches.

[caltruda]

There seems to be one player like this in every four-year cycle... when I was in school it was Shannon Smith, a gifted offensive player whom O'Neill never trusted due to defensive lapses before he transferred across town.

Merritt was always a face-up 4, whose play elevated with Jackson being the traditional 5 because they knew proper spacing.

I understood the grousing about DJ, but was also disappointed in it. It's damn hard to run an offense, and Tony Miller spoiled me rotten in terms of guttiness, guile and the clutch 3-pointer.

I think Blue is closer to turning the corner than we give him credit for. Prior to the title game, he was 21 for 34 from the field. He's had at least two assists in all five games. He's had at least four steals in two of them. We can argue the quality of the opponent, but still, he was doing a lot of things right.

The zone flustered him... and the team... but his 0-fer gets the most scrutiny because penetrating the lane sometimes comes down to decision-making and sometimes lacking patience. I think he'll be fine.

[Eye]

I have positive thoughts on DJ's career because he capped it with a strong senior season, despite less-than-expected sophomore and junior seasons. If he doesn't get injured in the UConn game I think MU at-worst makes a regional final that year, and maybe more. That and he gave it a go in the tourney that year when he was obviously less than 100 percent.

I have neutral thoughts on SM's career. Never became the go-to post-player you thought he could become after his first two years. One of those guys who was better as a complimentary player than a go-to guy.

I have positive thoughts on VB at this point because of his improvements since last March.

[Marqevans]

Dominic had his best year as a freshman.  Vander I believe had his worst year as a freshman. I think the sky is the limit for Vander as he improves each year.  He may end up being the go to guy next year!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

James wasn't mistreated like Merritt was...not even close. And Vander, as far as I can gauge, has never been mistreated. He can't shoot. Is that mistreating him? James was criticized for more than just poor shooting. Until he was a senior I had never, ever seen a guy feign injuries as much as he did. It was a joke. and he changed the pronunciation of his name because of dominique Wilkins. That's so lame its not even funny. The treatment Merritt got was absurd. People didn't care for James, but he wasn't mistreated. It seems to me that Vander is not a victim of the fanbase, but expectations. I personally think he'll be Ok...but just OK.

[MarkMiller]

James wasn't mistreated like Merritt was...not even close. And Vander, as far as I can gauge, has never been mistreated. He can't shoot. Is that mistreating him? James was criticized for more than just poor shooting. Until he was a senior I had never, ever seen a guy feign injuries as much as he did. It was a joke. and he changed the pronunciation of his name because of dominique Wilkins. That's so lame its not even funny. The treatment Merritt got was absurd. People didn't care for James, but he wasn't mistreated. It seems to me that Vander is not a victim of the fanbase, but expectations. I personally think he'll be Ok...but just OK.

Uh ... OK.

[MU Avenue]

James wasn't mistreated like Merritt was...not even close. And Vander, as far as I can gauge, has never been mistreated. He can't shoot. Is that mistreating him? James was criticized for more than just poor shooting. Until he was a senior I had never, ever seen a guy feign injuries as much as he did. It was a joke. and he changed the pronunciation of his name because of dominique Wilkins. That's so lame its not even funny. The treatment Merritt got was absurd. People didn't care for James, but he wasn't mistreated. It seems to me that Vander is not a victim of the fanbase, but expectations. I personally think he'll be Ok...but just OK.

PuertoRicanNightmare, you write that Dominic James would "feign injuries," and that you had never seen any player do so as much as he.

That is stupid, just plain stupid.

Many of us grew frustrated at times with James' play, especially his inconsistency and his unreliable shooting from the floor and the free-throw line.

But to accuse anyone of faking injuries is insultingly stupid. James suffered severe cramping and sustained many injuries. We all saw it and we all know it.

Also, stop the "People just didn't care for James" nonsense/crap. James was and remains a terrific guy, an outstanding athlete and a pretty fine basketball player.

Do all of us a favor: Never speak on our behalf and never declare how we feel or felt about anyone.

You want to know what is "so lame?" Your empty, unfair attack on a good guy who played hard but was the victim of being overhyped.

[GGGG]

James wasn't mistreated like Merritt was...not even close. And Vander, as far as I can gauge, has never been mistreated. He can't shoot. Is that mistreating him? James was criticized for more than just poor shooting. Until he was a senior I had never, ever seen a guy feign injuries as much as he did. It was a joke. and he changed the pronunciation of his name because of dominique Wilkins. That's so lame its not even funny. The treatment Merritt got was absurd. People didn't care for James, but he wasn't mistreated. It seems to me that Vander is not a victim of the fanbase, but expectations. I personally think he'll be Ok...but just OK.

Are you trying to prove the point of this thread.  Did James feign his broken foot too???

Pathetic.

[Blackhat]

Vander is pretty bad against good competition.   It appears he doesn't have a top level game or mental makeup.     DJ came out of the gates strong and you could tell he was a good player.   Don't get the same vibe with Vander especially when he sometimes seems to be dribbling and shooting with a paw on his drives.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

James wasn't mistreated like Merritt was...not even close. And Vander, as far as I can gauge, has never been mistreated. He can't shoot. Is that mistreating him? James was criticized for more than just poor shooting. Until he was a senior I had never, ever seen a guy feign injuries as much as he did. It was a joke. and he changed the pronunciation of his name because of dominique Wilkins. That's so lame its not even funny. The treatment Merritt got was absurd. People didn't care for James, but he wasn't mistreated. It seems to me that Vander is not a victim of the fanbase, but expectations. I personally think he'll be Ok...but just OK.

You forgot to add that James wore his arm sleeve simply for vanity, and his tall socks were a move to get more noticed on the court.

Those were your gripes as well, right?

[lab_warrior]

James wasn't mistreated like Merritt was...not even close. And Vander, as far as I can gauge, has never been mistreated. He can't shoot. Is that mistreating him? James was criticized for more than just poor shooting. Until he was a senior I had never, ever seen a guy feign injuries as much as he did. It was a joke. and he changed the pronunciation of his name because of dominique Wilkins. That's so lame its not even funny. The treatment Merritt got was absurd. People didn't care for James, but he wasn't mistreated. It seems to me that Vander is not a victim of the fanbase, but expectations. I personally think he'll be Ok...but just OK.

I'm going to go ahead and FEIGN taking this post seriously. 

[MU B2002]

You forgot to add that James wore his arm sleeve simply for vanity, and his tall socks were a move to get more noticed on the court.

Those were your gripes as well, right?

And that those kids need to sit down and cheer so the rest of us can see.