Freshman eligibility and class requirements

[Niv Berkowitz]

Did anyone catch the interview w/Bobby Knight on ESPN Outside the Lines two weeks ago? They were talking about the rule not allowing high school kids to go straight to the NBA and how the NCAA's rule on class requirements is a joke.

Knight said that freshman only have to pass nine credit hours in the first semester to be eligible to play the entire season. Now, if these kids plan to play sophomore year, they have problems. But, for those that only plan to play a year, Knight said this totally defeats the purpose of making the kids attend college. He said that college players should be college students and that the NCAA is being hypocritical not to change this requirement.

I had no idea of that rule. So technically, these players that are being saved from the NBA so they can experience college, only need to take three classes and they are good for the year. Is Knight's interpretation accurate? If so, it may explaing Oden's "Rock History" class.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

i think the one year removed from high school rule is ridiculous

coach k said it right when he said that if a man thinks he is ready for a job right out of high school and does not need college to let him go.  If he thinks he is so good let him test the water.  No one is going to tell a high school senior to not apply for a job before going to college but it would not make much sens to apply because of your extreme inexperience.  However, if for some odd reason you are eligable and are capable of performing at those high stakes good for you - go make millions

it ruins the college game and tarnishes recruiting classes. 

Until the NBA makes a rule like the NFL that you need to be out of college three years before you can enter the draft they will continue to get ridiculed for it.

[SoCalwarrior]

I don't think the NCAA should make any knee jerk decisions until there is a genuine problem.  Remember, this is an NBA rule, not an NCAA one.  And this is the first year.  A lot of student-athletes take a lighter load their first semester to ease into the demands.  Should the NCAA change the rules for the thousands of student athletes just because the NBA is keeping a few players out until they are 19?

[DJO's Pump Fake]

I agree with what your saying but only 9 credit hours?  At marquette you need 12 credits to even be considered a full time student.  So the NCAA is saying that with only 9 credit hours you can be a part time student and a full time athlete?  They are supposed to be STUDENT-ATHLETES not Part student Full athlete

[TJ]

Some schools use trimesters, where 8 credits can be considered full time, but there's 3 "semesters" so you still end up with 24 in the end (same as MU's minimum for full time).  Some schools use quarters.  The NCAA is in a very difficult position making blanket rules to affect every institution.  Just because it's a light load at MU, doesn't mean that's the same everywhere.

[Virginia Warrior 77]

I agree with Warrior55.  It turns college basketball into the NBA's farm system.  There's a difference between a student-athlete taking a lighter load first semester with the intention of making it up in later semesters and making progress toward a degree vs an athlete with no intention of ever getting a degree and who should be playing in the NBA just marking time and doing the minimum so they can play basketball until they comply with the NBA's silly, arbitrary rule.

[Niv Berkowitz]

Yeah, the 9-hour thing? I'm just saying what I remember hearing Knight say.

I agree you need to give students time to become student athletes, but nine friggin' credits? That's an utter joke.

Let's say you are Oden and are gonna come out after one year. The NBA requires that he be a certain age. It's the NCAA's obligation to at least make some sort of effort that the kid is an actual "student", and not using the school as a place to play, and the school making all that coin off him while not letting him go to class. That's not a student athlete.

I'm not naive to think classes and grades aren't manipulated and stuff, I just hate the NCAA's double speak about "looking after the benefit of the kids"...and then they add a 12th game to the football season, and then they allow "students" to complete 9-credits and that's it. OH...but they'll happily let you play during the conference-regular season and NCAA Tourney. I mean, it's not like the NCAA makes money off that or anything.

Always the dollars. Always the dollars.

[TJ]

Yeah, the 9-hour thing? I'm just saying what I remember hearing Knight say.

I agree you need to give students time to become student athletes, but nine friggin' credits? That's an utter joke.

Let's say you are Oden and are gonna come out after one year. The NBA requires that he be a certain age. It's the NCAA's obligation to at least make some sort of effort that the kid is an actual "student", and not using the school as a place to play, and the school making all that coin off him while not letting him go to class. That's not a student athlete.

I'm not naive to think classes and grades aren't manipulated and stuff, I just hate the NCAA's double speak about "looking after the benefit of the kids"...and then they add a 12th game to the football season, and then they allow "students" to complete 9-credits and that's it. OH...but they'll happily let you play during the conference-regular season and NCAA Tourney. I mean, it's not like the NCAA makes money off that or anything.

Always the dollars. Always the dollars.

I meant to mention, since Oden specifically has been brought up, that Ohio State is on a "Quarter" schedule and not "Semesters."  Have issue with the specific class selection if you want, but 9 credits is probably full time there.

[Virginia Warrior 77]

Yeah, the 9-hour thing? I'm just saying what I remember hearing Knight say.

I agree you need to give students time to become student athletes, but nine friggin' credits? That's an utter joke.

Let's say you are Oden and are gonna come out after one year. The NBA requires that he be a certain age. It's the NCAA's obligation to at least make some sort of effort that the kid is an actual "student", and not using the school as a place to play, and the school making all that coin off him while not letting him go to class. That's not a student athlete.

I'm not naive to think classes and grades aren't manipulated and stuff, I just hate the NCAA's double speak about "looking after the benefit of the kids"...and then they add a 12th game to the football season, and then they allow "students" to complete 9-credits and that's it. OH...but they'll happily let you play during the conference-regular season and NCAA Tourney. I mean, it's not like the NCAA makes money off that or anything.

Always the dollars. Always the dollars.

I meant to mention, since Oden specifically has been brought up, that Ohio State is on a "Quarter" schedule and not "Semesters."  Have issue with the specific class selection if you want, but 9 credits is probably full time there.

And he is majoring in Rock & Roll History, with a minor in basketball.

[Dish]

Most athletes, from what I understand, actually take the 9 hour/12 hour load. To be eligible for your sophomore season, you must meet the NCAA and your institution's eligibility requirements prior to the start of classes your sophomore year.

The majority of athletes take one/two summer sessions and make up their time then. Matta has gone on record as saying that Oden is keeping his options open, and if he comes back next year, he will make up his class schedule this summer to make him eligible for next season.

[TJ]

Yeah, the 9-hour thing? I'm just saying what I remember hearing Knight say.

I agree you need to give students time to become student athletes, but nine friggin' credits? That's an utter joke.

Let's say you are Oden and are gonna come out after one year. The NBA requires that he be a certain age. It's the NCAA's obligation to at least make some sort of effort that the kid is an actual "student", and not using the school as a place to play, and the school making all that coin off him while not letting him go to class. That's not a student athlete.

I'm not naive to think classes and grades aren't manipulated and stuff, I just hate the NCAA's double speak about "looking after the benefit of the kids"...and then they add a 12th game to the football season, and then they allow "students" to complete 9-credits and that's it. OH...but they'll happily let you play during the conference-regular season and NCAA Tourney. I mean, it's not like the NCAA makes money off that or anything.

Always the dollars. Always the dollars.

I meant to mention, since Oden specifically has been brought up, that Ohio State is on a "Quarter" schedule and not "Semesters."  Have issue with the specific class selection if you want, but 9 credits is probably full time there.

And he is majoring in Rock & Roll History, with a minor in basketball.

Like I said, have issue with his class selection if you like - but the 9 credits is ok. 

[Niv Berkowitz]

9-credits is o.k. too...BUT, my beef is that per the NCAA, you don't have to take ANY in the second semester at all. That's my big problem.

Like you said, if Oden wants to come back, he can take basket weaving or AIDS Awareness (like Katzenmoyer did) and be eligible next year.

[MUCHI814]

I dont understand how someone that isn't a full time student can receive a scholarship.  It's kinda bs that a normal kid has to take 12 credits to receive any financial aid and these kids can get full rides only taking 9, seems a little unfair.

[MikeyT42]

students have to take at least 12 credits to be elgible..... their first semester they just have to PASS 9 credits. So they have to enroll in 12 credits in the spring semester to stay elgible,

[spartan3186]

It's kinda bs that a normal kid has to take 12 credits to receive any financial aid and these kids can get full rides only taking 9, seems a little unfair.

Ok TJ is 100% correct on this, they are not referring to MU in general, they are making a blanket statement to cover ALL schools. Take DePaul for instance, I have a few good friends who go there who take around 9 hours a trimester, and on some semesters they will only take 6 credit hours and they are still full time students, it all depends on how the school is organized. 9hours/trimester*3 trimesters=27 credit hours (the equivalent of taking 4 classes one semester and 5 the next semster, exactly what I did my freshman year). The point is they have to be eligible at their school as a full-time student, the NCAA just made a blanket rule.

[DAtruth]

this is a nba rule..imo..ncaa needs to counter with rule of their own.. like..if you leave for the nba any sooner than the end of your sophomore year you must pay for a 4 year scholarship to the college who offered you a 4 yr scholarship..then you make the fresh. athletes attend more than 6 hrs of class to b eligible for the season..which is really absurd!!! these rules would do 1 of 3 things..get kids to stay in school longer(actually attending a few classes)..get the nba to drop their rule..or the kids coming out of h.s. will look to play overseas for a yr..which i have no problem with..wasting scholarships is just crazy to me..academic institutions right???

however if this rule isnt changed and tc would leave in next few yrs for any reason i want bob huggins...i seen beasley in the mcdonalds all american showcases..how did he get that kid to go to kansas state? he makes no bones about, it it isnt his job to tutor the kids and drag them to class..but he would turn mu into an nba factory quik!!!!

[CTWarrior]

I don't know that the NCAA neds to address this.  I agree that it is hypocritical, but what are we talking about here?  The NBA rules affects a maximum of maybe 10 kids a year, and usually much less.  Just not that big a deal.

[Niv Berkowitz]

Yeah, the NBA needs to create a farm system for guys that don't want to go to college, because let's face it, college isn't for every player out there. That's just the way it is. This system works for hockey and baseball. Do the same w/hoops instead of making college hoops a joke for some freshman superstars.

DAtruth - say it ain't so! You want Thuggy Bear at MU? Dear God no. There are more important things than being known as a good basketball team. Look at Cinci's reputation after years of Huggins. Nobody respects that place at all. Also, you can only have so many one-and-done players on your squad. Ultimately, you have to graduate players or you lose scholarships now. We'll see how things work out at K.State. The reason Huggy's gone at Cinci is because the new administration wanted the kids to start graduating.

[DAtruth]

as of now a lot of the draft predictions have ohio state having 3 freshmen go in the 1st round...i think it is a big deal..how much is a yrs tuition these days?

[DAtruth]

thanks for reminding me about that niz..thats somthing else the ncaa is going to have to change..there is no way you can control if and when your players go pro.. unless you recruit div 2&3 type of players..flunking out is 1 thing going on to make millions and millions is completely another...its a mess..something has to b done

huggins isnt a stand up guy or anything but im willing to change my thoughts and percepti9ons if the times call for it

[muwarrior87]

the NBA has the NBDL for people that aren't at a level high enough for playing in the NBA. I agree that the year after high school rule is just plain insane and it shouldn't be used. Coach K did say it well from the post above. there is just no reason to have this kind of rule and if players want to try and enter the NBA draft but aren't ready, let them go into the NBDL for a year or two if they don't wanna go to college and then some team can pick them up when they're ready to make that step. Baseball does it and i think basketball needs to pick up some sort of farm system or expand the NBDL so these guys don't have to go to college if they don't want to. I would hope they would want an education but whatever.

[Niv Berkowitz]

It just so happens Pat Forde has an article on ESPN.com today about prep players, the NBA and the NCAA and who benefits from the current system.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2816835&sportCat=ncb&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2