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Author Topic: #14 On Rivals.com  (Read 5441 times)

TedBaxter

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If You Aren't All In For Marquette Basketball, Move On

brewcity77

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 11:50:58 AM »
I'll be curious to see how the various outlets react if Jamil Wilson is a breakout star. He certainly has the talent. They ask who other than DJO can shoot the three...Crowder, Wilson, Gardner...and personally, I disagree about the idea that we can't finish top-3. I wouldn't lock it in, but it's definitely possible.

NersEllenson

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 11:53:18 AM »
Thanks for posting.  Decent analysis - but one GLARING omission - no mention of Davante Gardner.  Gardner is going to be a weapon this year - and very well could provide that 3rd scorer the article states MU needs.

Interesting that this author chose to put Juan Anderson and Mayo as reserves, but no mention of Jamail.  I'm hoping the light bulb goes on for Jamail and he develops the tenacity/intensity needed to see the court under Buzz - as the potential certainly seems there.  Same with Jamil Wilson.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

MUBurrow

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 11:54:08 AM »
I agree though that we need another guard that can stretch defenses. As much as I like the promise of Jae, JW, and DG all stepping outside and hitting a bomb, they strike me as good shooters for their positions.  They have some unique talents and cause matchup problems, but I don't know how often you are going to draw up plays for those guys to step outside or how often they are going to be in good positions to launch. Then again I havent seen the range out of JW or DG yet, and Jae's were almost seemingly all of trailers last year.

Brewtown Andy

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 12:00:01 PM »
I'll be curious to see how the various outlets react if Jamil Wilson is a breakout star. He certainly has the talent. They ask who other than DJO can shoot the three...Crowder, Wilson, Gardner

I know it's being talked about, but I'll believe that Gardner has the green light to shoot the 3 when I see it.
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QuetteHoops

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2011, 12:00:10 PM »
The article also said that we were 30-8 and took first place in the Pac 10 last year...Looks like we can stop worrying about conference realignment.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2011, 12:15:32 PM »
I know it's being talked about, but I'll believe that Gardner has the green light to shoot the 3 when I see it.

+1.

I know Buzz likes versatility, but giving a big guy like that permission to spot up outside is a bit risky. Especially a young big man.

As a senior, maybe you trust his shot selection. As a soph., I don't know that I want him looking for a jumper. Just seems like an invitation for him to "go soft"- ie players that fall in love with their own jumper.

brewcity77

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2011, 12:25:37 PM »
I don't think he'll shoot the three a lot, but I think there will be plays where it's an acceptable option. Probably as a trailer on the break. Gardner is too good at shooting from range to take it away completely.

DrDestiny911

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 12:26:07 PM »
I honestly think that was a pretty generous ranking of the team. I believe we're good but its cool to see some real respect from the media outlets. I really don't see a top 3 finish as a possibility and I am still not 100% sold on Gardner being a reliable option throughout the season. I just think he's a bit too streaky

MarquetteDano

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2011, 12:34:08 PM »
I honestly think that was a pretty generous ranking of the team. I believe we're good but its cool to see some real respect from the media outlets. I really don't see a top 3 finish as a possibility and I am still not 100% sold on Gardner being a reliable option throughout the season. I just think he's a bit too streaky

I think Gardner will be the third highest scorer on the team.  And that's with him prob only averaging 20 min per game.  I am not concerned about Gardner's offensive streakiness as he can score at will.  It is conditioning, defense, and defensive rebouding (he is a realy good offensive rebounder however) that will dictate whether or not he stays on the floor or not.

If he averages 20 min per game, I say he averages 11ppg, which will probably be good for our third scoring option mentioned in the article.

4everwarriors

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2011, 12:36:14 PM »
Ox ain't shootin' no threes in games that count for real.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

NersEllenson

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2011, 12:44:11 PM »
I think Gardner will be the third highest scorer on the team.  And that's with him prob only averaging 20 min per game.  I am not concerned about Gardner's offensive streakiness as he can score at will.  It is conditioning, defense, and defensive rebouding (he is a realy good offensive rebounder however) that will dictate whether or not he stays on the floor or not.

If he averages 20 min per game, I say he averages 11ppg, which will probably be good for our third scoring option mentioned in the article.

+1000

Gardner was basically the country's most efficient offensive scorer last year.  If he gets 20 minutes, I definitely agree that he likely would average right around 11ppg.

And I believe OX will shoot some 3's in games as a trailer.  He probably is the team's 3rd best three point shooter after DJO and Crowder...
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

Stretchdeltsig

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2011, 03:52:29 PM »
Looking at the amount of talent Marquette has this year, it's possible to see scores of 80 to 100 throughout the year.

Brewtown Andy

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2011, 06:02:35 PM »
I don't think he'll shoot the three a lot, but I think there will be plays where it's an acceptable option. Probably as a trailer on the break. Gardner is too good at shooting from range to take it away completely.

If Gardner's distance shooting is going to be limited to the Lazar Hayward Patented Trailer Three Point Shot, like most of Crowder's were last year, then it's fair to say MU has no reliable shooters other than DJO.
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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2011, 07:50:06 PM »
Pretty decent evaluation, but blanket statements like:

Quote
A top-three finish in the Big East isn't going to happen

really irritate me. I hope the players are reading quotations like that too. Is a top 3 finish probable? Maybe not. But it surely isn't out of the question.

avid1010

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2011, 08:10:00 PM »
If Gardner's distance shooting is going to be limited to the Lazar Hayward Patented Trailer Three Point Shot, like most of Crowder's were last year, then it's fair to say MU has no reliable shooters other than DJO.

have we seen a poor 3pt shooting team under buzz?  i guess i look at three things:
1. history of buzz coached teams shooting the three well, and the fact that players develop so well under buzz
2. the post presence of gardner and to a lesser extent otule (i'm probably higher on otule than most on this site)
3. the fact that buzz places such an emphasis on paint touches, and 3pt shots off a paint touch carry a much higher percentage

i think DJO has a green light anytime he has space, but off a paint touch guys like Junior, Crowder, Jones (he's looked confident the little i've seen him this summer/fall), J. Wilson will be able to hit the open shot at an effective percentage.  i'm not holding my breath on Vander, but he shot it well enough in high school to keep a defender honest.  sounds like Mayo may be the freshman with the most to offer as well if his defense allows him to get on the court. 

brewcity77

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2011, 08:25:14 PM »
If Gardner's distance shooting is going to be limited to the Lazar Hayward Patented Trailer Three Point Shot, like most of Crowder's were last year, then it's fair to say MU has no reliable shooters other than DJO.

Seriously, Gardner can shoot. Watching him at the Pro-Am a few times over the summer and then at the scrimmage last week, the guy has a good stroke. It looks odd because he gets so little lift off the ground on his jumper, but he can shoot. Over the summer, he was a better shooter from range than Junior or Blue, and more consistent than Jones (though not as good as JJ when he's hot).

The guy doesn't look like your prototypical three-point shooter, but neither did 6'10" Steve Novak. If he can hit it, that's a good thing, not an indictment of the team.

Brewtown Andy

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2011, 09:14:39 PM »
Seriously, Gardner can shoot. Watching him at the Pro-Am a few times over the summer and then at the scrimmage last week, the guy has a good stroke. It looks odd because he gets so little lift off the ground on his jumper, but he can shoot. Over the summer, he was a better shooter from range than Junior or Blue, and more consistent than Jones (though not as good as JJ when he's hot).

The guy doesn't look like your prototypical three-point shooter, but neither did 6'10" Steve Novak. If he can hit it, that's a good thing, not an indictment of the team.

I'm not saying he CAN'T hit it.

I'm saying I don't know if Buzz is feeling super excited about running plays out of time outs late in games to get Gardner a look at a 25 footer, AND that I don't think that there's anyone on the team who I feel comfortable being the target of a play to get a 3 in a late game situation right now other than DJO.

That's all.

Not saying that Jae won't get more wing time or that Jamil and/or Jamail won't show something. I'm talking about things that we know about the team right now.
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brewcity77

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2011, 09:35:34 PM »
I'm not saying he CAN'T hit it.

I'm saying I don't know if Buzz is feeling super excited about running plays out of time outs late in games to get Gardner a look at a 25 footer, AND that I don't think that there's anyone on the team who I feel comfortable being the target of a play to get a 3 in a late game situation right now other than DJO.

That's all.

That I'd agree with. I don't think we'll script many plays designed to go to Gardner, but I do think he will have opportunities to step out to receive a pass, and I think he will definitely have some open opportunities bringing up the back in transition.

I'd guess that DJO, Jae, and Jamil will all have far more threes than Gardner, but I could see him getting the right opportunities and maybe taking 25-30 threes for the season. I see it more as a wide-open look situation, or exploiting a defense.

spartan3186

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2011, 09:59:34 PM »
Ox ain't shootin' no threes in games that count for real.

I thought that about Kinsella at one point  ;D

Brewtown Andy

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2011, 07:23:06 AM »
That I'd agree with. I don't think we'll script many plays designed to go to Gardner, but I do think he will have opportunities to step out to receive a pass, and I think he will definitely have some open opportunities bringing up the back in transition.

I'd guess that DJO, Jae, and Jamil will all have far more threes than Gardner, but I could see him getting the right opportunities and maybe taking 25-30 threes for the season. I see it more as a wide-open look situation, or exploiting a defense.

If I'm remembering the flow of Buzz's offense correctly, the third or fourth pass usually has the 5 stepping out to the top of the key as part of the rotation. It's entirely possible that Gardner will get the green light whenever his guy doesn't follow him close enough.  It's also possible that once Big East play starts, he'll never be open for that shot, but it'll attract enough defenders that the rest of the floor opens up.
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avid1010

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2011, 07:29:01 AM »
If Gardner can hit from 15'+ and is capable of guarding the other teams 5 spot, that is a huge game-changer for MU.  That allows MU to post up someone like J. Wilson at the 3 spot, and teams won't be able to double down or across.  He doesn't have to hit the three to really open up the lane/post for everyone else...if he can sit elbow extended and hold his defender honest it gives Buzz a ton of different options when he's in the game.  I still think the biggest thing for him will be his defense, as it will be for the entire team.  After watching MU under Buzz the last few years the least of my concerns is scoring the ball...

Lennys Tap

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2011, 09:09:55 AM »
Gardner hitting 3s or passing/shooting from the high post would be a nice change of pace but his bread and butter should always be underneath where he can use his skill and bulk to score easy baskets and draw fouls.

ErickJD08

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2011, 09:26:55 AM »
For sure MU can hold down the top 5 spot.  There is a big "if" though.  If those guys who are suppose to knock down three's, will do so.  From all my basketball watching, I feel like the best formula for success is 1. being able to force the defense to collapse through inside presence or dribble/drive and then 2. knocking down the three when the defense collapses.  If we can do that, we will win a bunch of games.

Of course solid defense is key too but for some reason, I am not too worried about have a weak defense this season.
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GGGG

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Re: #14 On Rivals.com
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2011, 11:25:32 AM »
The article didn't mention Crowder, Wilson or Gardner shooting the three because this was the sentence:

"The Golden Eagles need another guard to show he can hit 3-pointers."

In other words, who is going to replace Buycks as our best three point shooter in terms of percentages this year?  Gardner may take some threes, but he aint jackin' up 100 three point shots.  Jamil shot under 30% from three his one year in Oregon, so I am not sure if we can count on him at this point.  (Although he might definately emerge as that threat.)

I think this is a legitimate concern that they bring forward, and there are really no good answers because the other two guards (Blue and Junior) aren't great at it, and everyone else is unprooven.  (Mayo, Jamail, etc.)

 

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