[Enlund's Blog] Marquette No. 21 in preseason coaches poll

[brewcity77]

Maybe it's just me, but I think the BCS comment was completely in line. Yes, there was exaggeration, hyperbole, and dare I say a touch of sarcasm, but over the past few years, there have been a number of "Buzz to..." rumors that Katz has helped perpetuate. Three this year, I seem to remember a couple last year too. When the same thing happens 5-6 times over a 2-year period, it's safe to say you have a trend.

That said, I usually enjoy Katz and think he does a pretty good job. But in this case, strictly the article in question in this article, he's off base. Trying to say that our non-con SOS is no better than WVU, Georgetown, or Notre Dame is just ridiculous. This is all about top end name teams. Replace Vandy with Duke, Wisconsin with MSU, and Washington with UCLA and we'd be rated higher, even though the teams we're playing are just as tough or tougher.

[g0lden3agle]

+1.  He is very unbiased and tells it like it is.

In my opinion, I hope analysts never stop speculating that Buzz will go somewhere else.  If we're being completely honest here, outside of the Marquette community, not many people look at Marquette as a destination job (especially now that the BE is imploding).  If there are bigger state schools with a history of success who are looking for someone to rebuild a program that is close to where Buzz grew up, I, for one, hope Buzz is discussed as a potential candidate to fill that position.  The day he is not being discussed as such, is the day that we are underachieving.  I would much rather have a successful program and worry about our coach leaving at the end of the year than have an unsuccessful program and not have to worry whether we will have the same coach the next season.  If we're not worrying our coach will leave for another job, then chances are we're hoping he's fired.  Just my opinion.

Very well said!

[StillAWarrior]

Maybe it's just me, but I think the BCS comment was completely in line. Yes, there was exaggeration, hyperbole, and dare I say a touch of sarcasm, but over the past few years, there have been a number of "Buzz to..." rumors that Katz has helped perpetuate. Three this year, I seem to remember a couple last year too. When the same thing happens 5-6 times over a 2-year period, it's safe to say you have a trend.

I really don't disagree...in fact, I even added to the schools that lab-warrior listed.  But, I really have two issues with the original post.  Even if we agree to ignore the initial hyperbole, I don't think these reports make him a "joke."  Katz is a college hoops writer.  If he doesn't write about rumors relating to the job searches being conducted by BCS programs, or about rumors relating to one of the hottest young coaches, he absolutely is not doing his job.  As we speak, there's a thread on this board calling out the new beat reporter because he doesn't use twitter and his blogs are canned, but we've got people calling Katz a "joke" because he bothers to report/blog on the biggest coaching searches going on in his business (which happen to be some of the biggest stories).  Second, this past year, most of what I could find by Katz was fairly skeptical that Buzz was going anywhere.

I'm not sure if I've ever defended Katz on here, and I'm pretty certain that I've never responded to the "Katz is a rodent" posts or stuff like that.  I think he's good, but don't really care one way or the other whether other people like him.  I read a comment that didn't match with what I recall, so I responded.  I think the Katz hate on this board (to the extent that there is any) comes from two things:  1) he is a rodent, after all, and 2) he seemed to have been very tight with Crean.  Although I don't hate the guy, I'll concede that these are two valid reasons to dislike him.  In my opinion, constantly saying that "Buzz to _____" is not a valid reason to dislike him, because I don't think that he's really done too much of that (I don't think saying "Oklahoma is considering Buzz" is the same as saying "Buzz to Oklahoma").

[Rubie Q]

In my opinion, constantly saying that "Buzz to _____" is not a valid reason to dislike him, because I don't think that he's really done too much of that (I don't think saying "Oklahoma is considering Buzz" is the same as saying "Buzz to Oklahoma").

Maybe this is an issue of semantics, but I'd cite this as an example of what BTA and lab_warrior and BrewCity are talking about:

This is Katz's post from the day Arkansas fired John Pelphrey.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6212623

At the end, he discusses the early candidates to replace Pelphrey. The first he names is Mike Anderson, which: yeah. Obviously. And then he quickly moves to No. 2:

If Anderson turns the job down, Marquette coach Buzz Williams, who has Arkansas ties, is expected to be high on Long's list. If they can't land Williams, the Hogs will look for another established head coach.

I remember reading that and thinking: where the hell did that come from? What Arkansas ties? And, apparently, I wasn't the only one, because Arkansas fans thought it came out of nowhere too:

http://www.arkansasexpats.com/2011/3/16/2054086/quick-arkansas-basketball-coaching-search-update

[StillAWarrior]

Maybe this is an issue of semantics, but I'd cite this as an example of what BTA and lab_warrior and BrewCity are talking about:

This is Katz's post from the day Arkansas fired John Pelphrey.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6212623

At the end, he discusses the early candidates to replace Pelphrey. The first he names is Mike Anderson, which: yeah. Obviously. And then he quickly moves to No. 2:

If Anderson turns the job down, Marquette coach Buzz Williams, who has Arkansas ties, is expected to be high on Long's list. If they can't land Williams, the Hogs will look for another established head coach.

I remember reading that and thinking: where the hell did that come from? What Arkansas ties? And, apparently, I wasn't the only one, because Arkansas fans thought it came out of nowhere too:

http://www.arkansasexpats.com/2011/3/16/2054086/quick-arkansas-basketball-coaching-search-update

Yeah, I understand what they're talking about.  I just don't think that it makes him a joke.  I think it means he's doing his job.  It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone when a reporter says, "[hot young coach] will be high on [hiring school's] list."  And as far as I recall, Buzz was on a lot of those lists.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If Crean Buzz would quit leaking his name out there, then this wouldn't be an issue, right?

[mviale]

Isn't this year 4 of the Tom Crean regime?

[Brewtown Andy]

Yeah, I understand what they're talking about.  I just don't think that it makes him a joke. 

How about this?

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/37357/3-point-shots-mizzou-tourney-no-lock

3. Marquette returned Saturday from its three days outside Milwaukee, staying at a campground in log cabins, practicing in elementary and middle schools and bonding in preparation for a Big East top-five run. Roles are being defined and already there were some positive vibes coming out of the experience. Junior Cadougan is the lock at the point, Darius Johnson-Odom is his sidekick and the Golden Eagles are expecting consistent play out of Jae Crowder inside with lot of pressure on 6-foot-11 center Chris Otule, wing Vander Blue and Oregon transfer Jamil Wilson to produce to ensure the Eagles max their potential.

[StillAWarrior]

How about this?

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/37357/3-point-shots-mizzou-tourney-no-lock

It's a bit of a silly statement...everyone knows DJO is the stud on the team.  I'd venture a guess that even Katz knows that.  I think the "newsiest" thing in there that he was trying to get across is that Junior is a lock (which some other national writers have missed) and then it's a stupid choice of words after that.  Aside from using the word "sidekick" to describe DJO (which I interpret to mean that he thinks Junior/DJO are going to be the two main players), do you find fault with anything else in there?  Again, I think it's good when national writers are mentioning your program.

[Lennys Tap]

If Crean Buzz would quit leaking his name out there, then this wouldn't be an issue, right?

Yeah, right. Crean having his buddies report that he's the leading candidate at a school that doesn't want him (Illinois) is the same as school sources telling writers who they want (Arkansas, Oklahoma re Buzz).

On another subject, this is year 4 of the Buzz Williams Experiment. When can we expect a thumbs up or down from the Great Equivocator?

[Brewtown Andy]

It's a bit of a silly statement...everyone knows DJO is the stud on the team.  I'd venture a guess that even Katz knows that.  I think the "newsiest" thing in there that he was trying to get across is that Junior is a lock (which some other national writers have missed) and then it's a stupid choice of words after that.  Aside from using the word "sidekick" to describe DJO (which I interpret to mean that he thinks Junior/DJO are going to be the two main players), do you find fault with anything else in there?  Again, I think it's good when national writers are mentioning your program.

I find fault with saying MU is expecting "consistent" play from a guy voted as one of the 15 best players in the Big East by the BE coaches.

[g0lden3agle]

I find fault with saying MU is expecting "consistent" play from a guy voted as one of the 15 best players in the Big East by the BE coaches.

While it may not have been the intent of the author, I agree that the consistency is the only thing that was keeping Crowder back from top 15 last year.  I read it more as "consistently great".

[StillAWarrior]

I find fault with saying MU is expecting "consistent" play from a guy voted as one of the 15 best players in the Big East by the BE coaches.

So, you think Jae will be inconsistent?  Obviously, you don't, so I'm not entirely sure why you find fault with Katz's statement.  I think it's pretty clear in the context, consistent is being used as a positive (i.e, consistently good).  I guess he didn't use the same word/superlative you'd have picked, but I don't think the word he used was incorrect or a slight to Jae.  Understatement, perhaps, but not inaccurate.  

But, fair enough...you think that Katz is a joke.  That's your right.  I think he typically gives Marquette positive and fair coverage.

[MUMac]

I find fault with saying MU is expecting "consistent" play from a guy voted as one of the 15 best players in the Big East by the BE coaches.

Starting with Vanderbilt and going through all of BE play, including the BE Tourney, below are Crowder's game by game stats (Points and rebounds).  I can see exactly what Katz meant by consistency.  Pretty obvious.

Game Vanderbilt WVU Rutgers Pitt ND Louisville DePaul ND UCONN Syracuse Nova USF Georgetown SJU Seton Hall UCONN Providence Cincy Seton Hall Providence WVU Louisville

Decision L W W L W L W L L W L W L L W W W L L W W L

Points 8 29 15 10 18 8 18 15 10 25 9 14 4 15 12 7 12 3 1 10 4 10

Rebounds 11 8 7 7 7 5 9 8 9 7 4 4 7 9 9 11 13 3 3 4 9 3

In those 22 games, MU was 11-11.  Crowder averaged 14.9 ppg/8 rbg in the victories and 8.5 ppg/6.3 rbg in the losses.  Not pinning the losses on him, as he played well in some of the losses.  But, to Katz' point, a key to MU is that it needs Crowder to be more consistent as a SR.  Fair point.

To put it in perspective, last year, Jimmy Butler scored in double digits, all but two games.  And MU won those two games.

[StillAWarrior]

But, to Katz' point, a key to MU is that it needs Crowder to be more consistent as a SR.  Fair point.

I also think it's worth pointing out that Katz said, "the Golden Eagles are expecting consistent play out of Jae Crowder inside..."  To a certain extent, the quality (or lack thereof) of Katz's reporting here depends on what he was told by a source at Marquette.  If Buzz (or someone else with the program) said simply that they expect Crowder to be more consistent this year, it's hard to find too much fault with Katz.  If the same source said that Crowder looks fantastic, is greatly improved and that they really expect big things from him this year, then Katz's reporting sucks in this case.  I'm willing to admit that both are quite possible; as is the possibility that nobody told him anything.

[PGsHeroes32]

I dont get people problems with either comments. Yes, Jae needs to be consistent if we are going to win as many games as most of us think. Yes, DJO is definitely the star of the team but thats not what Katz meant with calling him Juniors sidekick. He was just saying that Junior has looked good enough to "lock" himself in at PG and run the offense.......DJO is the "sidekick" because hes the second starter guard and the one Junior will be feeding the ball too.

He wasn't saying it like Junior is better than DJO.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yeah, right. Crean having his buddies report that he's the leading candidate at a school that doesn't want him (Illinois) is the same as school sources telling writers who they want (Arkansas, Oklahoma re Buzz).

On another subject, this is year 4 of the Buzz Williams Experiment. When can we expect a thumbs up or down from the Great Equivocator?

My Crean/Buzz comparison was mostly tongue in cheek.

As far as the "4 year" thing, I'm very high on this year's team and I really like Buzz (check my posts, even going back to last season).

With this said, even if MU wasn't very good the past couple of seasons, I still would have stood by the fact that you have to give a coach a chance to get his own players into the system. Buzz finally has that, and I'm very optimistic.

[lab_warrior]

I really don't disagree...in fact, I even added to the schools that lab_warrior listed. 

I thank you for that, I realize I had forgotten more than HALF of the schools Katz MADE UP rumors of Buzz going to.

Katz is a college hoops writer.  If he doesn't write about rumors relating to the job searches being conducted by BCS programs, or about rumors relating to one of the hottest young coaches, he absolutely is not doing his job.

Agreed, completely, but my point is that reporting rumors that YOU MAKE UP out of thin air isn't "reporting".  So, technically, he's not doing his job.  (See:  Miller, Judith; New York Times; "weapons of mass distruction in Iraq"-stories)

Second, this past year, most of what I could find by Katz was fairly skeptical that Buzz was going anywhere.

No, the tone of it was basically like a cheerleader urging respective BCS schools to hire Buzz, because he has "roots" in Arkansas.  Roots meaning that he speaks with a drawl like other AK citizens, apparently.

I'm pretty certain that I've never responded to the "Katz is a rodent" posts or stuff like that. 

I haven't either, but it is one more really juicy reason to crank up the DISLIKE.

In my opinion, constantly saying that "Buzz to _____" is not a valid reason to dislike him, because I don't think that he's really done too much of that (I don't think saying "Oklahoma is considering Buzz" is the same as saying "Buzz to Oklahoma").

It is when there's no evidence that some of these universities had any interest in Buzz at all.  Maybe Oklahoma had interest, but I am pretty sure that most of Katz' stuff was along the lines of "I think Buzz would be a perfect fit here because ____ (wink wink, hire him!)"  The key word there is "constantly."  I'm just wondering why he didn't diversify more, he should have made up all this stuff about Brad Stevens, Mark Few, etc.

I apologize  for the FJM treatment--not trying to be anything other than clarifying why I think the guy is a "joke."  I'm perfectly fine with others thinking he's a good reporter, nor do I disagree with the idea that Buzz having his name in the mix all of the time is a good thing, so long as that "mix" isn't a complete figment of Katz' imagination.  Frankly, I see Katz as somebody like Scott Templeton from Season 5 of "The Wire".  He's reporting partially and/or wholly made up stuff--stuff that grabs readers and is great  talk radio fodder.

[StillAWarrior]

It is when there's no evidence that some of these universities had any interest in Buzz at all.  Maybe Oklahoma had interest, but I am pretty sure that most of Katz' stuff was along the lines of "I think Buzz would be a perfect fit here because ____ (wink wink, hire him!)"  The key word there is "constantly."  I'm just wondering why he didn't diversify more, he should have made up all this stuff about Brad Stevens, Mark Few, etc.

Well, I don't really see any point of going much further with this.  It's clear that there's not much I can say.  Faced with the fact that Katz never mentioned Buzz's name in connection with many of the BCS searches and that many times when Katz did mention Buzz it was to dispel rumors that he would leave, you respond by claiming that Katz is simply MAKING UP rumors in the first place.  You've taken the "discussion" to a point that it's impossible to respond.  I can't prove he didn't MAKE UP the "rumors" and you can't prove that he did.  It's a bit of a stalemate, and probably best to leave it at that.

[brewcity77]

I dont get people problems with either comments. Yes, Jae needs to be consistent if we are going to win as many games as most of us think. Yes, DJO is definitely the star of the team but thats not what Katz meant with calling him Juniors sidekick. He was just saying that Junior has looked good enough to "lock" himself in at PG and run the offense.......DJO is the "sidekick" because hes the second starter guard and the one Junior will be feeding the ball too.

He wasn't saying it like Junior is better than DJO.

It was a poor choice of words. Robin, Sancho Panza, Kato, Tonto, those are sidekicks. At worst, DJO would be Caddy's partner. Certainly not his sidekick.

[ATL MU Warrior]

it is evident that we all REALLY need the season to start

[StillAWarrior]

it is evident that we all REALLY need the season to start

And what's that supposed to mean?  Maybe some of us only SORT OF need the season to start, and there might be a few who don't need the season to start AT ALL.  And don't the capitalize the first word of a sentence where you're from?

On second thought...

[MattyWarrior]

When is someone at JSO going to update the roster and the rest of the blog. There is so little content in their weekly sports
section they could run two weeks worth of stories on the players, featuring a different player each day going right up to the first game. Take some iniative and do some reporting with some local flavor..

[ATL MU Warrior]

And what's that supposed to mean?  Maybe some of us only SORT OF need the season to start, and there might be a few who don't need the season to start AT ALL.  And don't the capitalize the first word of a sentence where you're from?

On second thought...

At least spell check your post before taking a lame shot at someone's grammar/spelling. 

[Lennys Tap]

My Crean/Buzz comparison was mostly tongue in cheek.

As far as the "4 year" thing, I'm very high on this year's team and I really like Buzz (check my posts, even going back to last season).

With this said, even if MU wasn't very good the past couple of seasons, I still would have stood by the fact that you have to give a coach a chance to get his own players into the system. Buzz finally has that, and I'm very optimistic.

Just reread my post and I'm afraid that my attempt at humor came out a bit snippy. Sorry about that, but I confess that while there are obvious similarities (both coach basketball, both at Marquette) I think at the core TC and Buzz are dissimilar and bordering on antithetical.