BE Targetting Central Florida and SMU

[GGGG]

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/10/big_east_targets_smu_and_centr.html

Along with previous schools mentioned Temple and Navy.

Basketball is clearly not the priority.  (Not that I blame them....but it makes you think of the options as a basketball school.)

[brewcity77]

Right now it's all about survival. Though I'd rather see Temple as a full member. They'd make both football and basketball better. Don't really like the idea of adding Villanova football, though. Just coming from FCS, they likely won't be very competitive. Much rather see that go to Navy or Army.

Glad to hear some progress. With how fast things have been going, 2 days of silence since Sunday seemed like an eternity.

[Canadian Dimes]

i do not understand why Temple would not be invited for basketball..  they have a long rich history and have really been on the upswing recently and as recently as 20 years agao were one of the top teams in the nation for a few years under chaney.

If the answer is Nova...well that is BS

[GGGG]

Again, if they add SMU and Central Florida for all sports, but do not add Temple's basketball program, I think it is time for the bball schools to look at other alternatives.  The BE as we know it is dead.  Imagine SMU playing Central Florida on the MSG floor instead of Syracuse playing Pitt.  The brand is sullied.

I would much rather be with Georgetown, Nova, St. Johns, Xavier and Dayton in a conference of basketball-first schools who are *just like us.*  Not a conference that views basketball as a diversion between football seasons.

[bilsu]

Again, if they add SMU and Central Florida for all sports, but do not add Temple's basketball program, I think it is time for the bball schools to look at other alternatives.  The BE as we know it is dead.  Imagine SMU playing Central Florida on the MSG floor instead of Syracuse playing Pitt.  The brand is sullied.

I would much rather be with Georgetown, Nova, St. Johns, Xavier and Dayton in a conference of basketball-first schools who are *just like us.*  Not a conference that views basketball as a diversion between football seasons.

You will get your wish sooner or later. Let us hope it is later.

[GGGG]

Why do we want to "hope it is later?"  I see no advantage whatsoever in remaining in a newer version of CUSA.

[StillAWarrior]

Why do we want to "hope it is later?"  I see no advantage whatsoever in remaining in a newer version of CUSA.

I would also prefer to see it come sooner, because I'm convinced that it's going to happen eventually.  I think that one of the worst things that can happen for Marquette is for the Big East to bring in other football schools.  In my opinion, it would be far better for Marquette if the Big East implodes in the near future with the remaining football schools leaving, than to have new football schools join the conference and create football stability.  This is based upon my opinion that the hybrid conference will never be stable and eventually the basketball only schools will have to make their own way.  My preference is that they make their own way under the name "Big East" because the football schools leave, rather than as "Generic Basketball Conference" because the football schools don't value the basketball schools.

I'm one who believes that the Big East brand has quite a lot of value as a basketball conference, even if the football schools leave.  I know that Sultan disagrees with me about how much value, but that's an honest difference of opinion. 

[Litehouse]

The only advantage of sticking around is maintaining games with Louisville, Cincy, UConn and WVU.  We just may have to put up with the UCF, TCU and SMU games as a trade-off.

Also, we need to wait for the football schools to leave, if we leave on our own we lose the Big East name and MSG rights.  I think that's important.

[MerrittsMustache]

Again, if they add SMU and Central Florida for all sports, but do not add Temple's basketball program, I think it is time for the bball schools to look at other alternatives.  The BE as we know it is dead.  Imagine SMU playing Central Florida on the MSG floor instead of Syracuse playing Pitt.  The brand is sullied.

I would much rather be with Georgetown, Nova, St. Johns, Xavier and Dayton in a conference of basketball-first schools who are *just like us.*  Not a conference that views basketball as a diversion between football seasons.

Agree 100%.

[TallTitan34]

Seriously SMU?  I don't care how dirty Memphis is or what there academic situation is.  This is an athletic conference.  Add Memphis.

[GGGG]

It's not so much that I don't think it doesn't have any value, I just don't think we should be tied to the brand at all costs.  I mean, a basketball only conference that is called the Big East and plays its tournament at MSG does have value over a conference called Conference East and plays its tournament in Philadelphia.  The question is by what margin is it more valuable?

[chapman]

Again, if they add SMU and Central Florida for all sports, but do not add Temple's basketball program, I think it is time for the bball schools to look at other alternatives.  The BE as we know it is dead.  Imagine SMU playing Central Florida on the MSG floor instead of Syracuse playing Pitt.  The brand is sullied.

I would much rather be with Georgetown, Nova, St. Johns, Xavier and Dayton in a conference of basketball-first schools who are *just like us.*  Not a conference that views basketball as a diversion between football seasons.

Agree.  And if the football schools actually don't want Temple basketball I'd take them in this conference without hesitation even if they're not exactly like the rest.  The product is much better by going this route instead of replacing Pitt and Syracuse's basketball programs with TCU, SMU and UCF.  When we're looking to add a "travel partner" to meet TCU's demands I think we're past the tipping point.

[79Warrior]

Again, if they add SMU and Central Florida for all sports, but do not add Temple's basketball program, I think it is time for the bball schools to look at other alternatives.  The BE as we know it is dead.  Imagine SMU playing Central Florida on the MSG floor instead of Syracuse playing Pitt.  The brand is sullied.

I would much rather be with Georgetown, Nova, St. Johns, Xavier and Dayton in a conference of basketball-first schools who are *just like us.*  Not a conference that views basketball as a diversion between football seasons.

Agree completely. The brand is clearly diluted with Cuse and Pitt gone. The hybrid conference is not going to work longer term. Need to get the best 10-12 hoops only schools and move on.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Seriously SMU?  I don't care how dirty Memphis is or what there academic situation is.  This is an athletic conference.  Add Memphis.

TOTALLY agree!  How are they any dirtier than UConn?  And they'd add a new state to the mix.  And their basketball team is, you know, good.

[kmwtrucks]

I would stick with the 6 Football schools.  Losing Uconn, Ville, Cincy, WV, could not be replaced by Xavier and Dayton ST louis and butler.  Also you might lose Notre Dame as well.

You fight to survive becuase you never know what is going to happen down the Road.  If MU keeps getting better they will have more options.  Does it make it 5 years?  Does it make it 20 years?  You never know.  You can always goto the BBALL conf, once you go BBALL you can never go back to a football Conf.

Also if you add a school for just football, you really need to add 2.

[kmwtrucks]

I think that for the Big East to get stable you need to get to 12 Football schools.  I would do Temple, CF, SMU, for all sports and Navy and AFA for football.  This would give you 12 and 18.

I think that would be good enough to keep their BCS tie in, which is the end game to stay alive. 

[StillAWarrior]

It's not so much that I don't think it doesn't have any value, I just don't think we should be tied to the brand at all costs.  I mean, a basketball only conference that is called the Big East and plays its tournament at MSG does have value over a conference called Conference East and plays its tournament in Philadelphia.  The question is by what margin is it more valuable?

I agree.  My point wasn't to suggest that you didn't think it had value, but rather to simply acknowledge that we have differing opinions on the value.  No problemo.

[MerrittsMustache]

The next question would be: How is this new bball-only conference formed?

1) Do MU, Georgetown, St. John's and Nova bolt the BE to join the newly named and much improved Atlantic 14? Do Seton Hall, DePaul and Providence get included? The A-17? (I'd assume ND would deem themselves to be above joining what was a mid-major conference)

2) Do the bball-only schools bolt the BE and try to get schools like Xavier, Dayton, Butler (i.e. the strongest of the mid-majors) to bolt their conferences and join them in a new conference?

3) Do they vote in opposition of adding new members and try to drive the football schools out so they keep the BE name and invite other schools to join? (not sure if this is even a feasible option)


Just curious as to how people see it coming to life.

[Aughnanure]

The next question would be: How is this new bball-only conference formed?

1) Do MU, Georgetown, St. John's and Nova bolt the BE to join the newly named and much improved Atlantic 14? Do Seton Hall, DePaul and Providence get included? The A-17? (I'd assume ND would deem themselves to be above joining what was a mid-major conference)

2) Do the bball-only schools bolt the BE and try to get schools like Xavier, Dayton, Butler (i.e. the strongest of the mid-majors) to bolt their conferences and join them in a new conference?

3) Do they vote in opposition of adding new members and try to drive the football schools out so they keep the BE name and invite other schools to join? (not sure if this is even a feasible option)


Just curious as to how people see it coming to life.

4) None of the above. Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia all bolt the Big 12. Big East loses automatic AQ, football schools either go somewhere else or stick around and put their football in another league (like Temple, UMass in A-10).

[NersEllenson]

The next question would be: How is this new bball-only conference formed?

1) Do MU, Georgetown, St. John's and Nova bolt the BE to join the newly named and much improved Atlantic 14? Do Seton Hall, DePaul and Providence get included? The A-17? (I'd assume ND would deem themselves to be above joining what was a mid-major conference)

2) Do the bball-only schools bolt the BE and try to get schools like Xavier, Dayton, Butler (i.e. the strongest of the mid-majors) to bolt their conferences and join them in a new conference?

3) Do they vote in opposition of adding new members and try to drive the football schools out so they keep the BE name and invite other schools to join? (not sure if this is even a feasible option)


Just curious as to how people see it coming to life.

The big if at this point is if Mizzou goes to SEC.  That happens, and there is NO doubt Lville gets a Big 12 invite, with Cincy and WVU good possibilities too.  

If I'm an MU administrator involved in this process - I try to delay/stall the addition of UCF, SMU, etc...and other football schools to the Big East - who would devalue the basketball brand of the Big East's current non-football playing schools...and reduce the voting power of the basketball only schools.  

As for UCONN and Rutgers - tough luck to them - they have been trying to get out of the Big East for awhile, and if it goes down like above - they'll have to figure out what they are going to do..

[bilsu]

I would like the Big East to survive with football. Although, I am not a big college football fan, I do believe football raises the stature of the conference. I may be wrong, but I took the reason for adding SMU was a way to keep TCU in the mix. I really hope we add Temple for all sports. According to what I read on the basketball boards Central Florida is the fastest growing University in the US. They may not be good in basketball now, but I would think they would have the potential to become very good. I would also take Memphis, but I think the biggest probelm with that is Louisville and Cincy do not want them and therefore they are not on the radar and I do not expect them to be. No one knows the future, but replacing Syrarcuse and Pitt with Temple and C. Florida in the long run might not be that bad. Temple I believe based on wins is in the top ten all-time in basketball. Although, I believe Syracuse will still be good after Bohiem(sp), usually the program takes a hit when a coaching legend leaves the program. I believe the move to the Big East will have a more positive effect on Central Florida's basketball program than Pitt will have moving to the ACC. I actually believe Pitt will see a decline, but maybe that is only wishfull thinking. As far as future stability, the instability ends when the four super conferences get to their desired team level. Hopefully, they decide that is 14 teams vs 16 teams.

[bilsu]

The big if at this point is if Mizzou goes to SEC.  That happens, and there is NO doubt Lville gets a Big 12 invite, with Cincy and WVU good possibilities too.  

If I'm an MU administrator involved in this process - I try to delay/stall the addition of UCF, SMU, etc...and other football schools to the Big East - who would devalue the basketball brand of the Big East's current non-football playing schools...and reduce the voting power of the basketball only schools.  

As for UCONN and Rutgers - tough luck to them - they have been trying to get out of the Big East for awhile, and if it goes down like above - they'll have to figure out what they are going to do..

I think Louisville and Cincy will get an invite, but I am not sure they will accept it. They are basketball schools first and I think they prefer to remain in Big East, if it can survive with football. The teams that want to leave are Uconn, who nobody really wants, and West Virginia. I think we lose West Virginia if Misouri turns down SEC. Missouri goes to SEC and West Virginia does whatever Louisville and Cincy do and they could very easily decide to stay in Big East. The best thing in my opinion would be for Missouri to jump to SEC, which might cause other Big 12 teams to again try to leave. Missouri stays and the Big 12 survives for sure and West Virginia goes to SEC and that is when Big East implodes.

[GGGG]

Louisville and Cincinnati would be crazy to turn down the B12.  More money and who would you rather have come into your home stadium?  Texas and Oklahoma?  Or Central Florida and SMU?  Nothing says "small potatos" more than what BE football is morphing into.

Not to mention that the B12 basketball conference really isn't *that* bad.  Add Louisville and Cincy to a mix of Kansas, KSU and Texas?  Not shabby.

[bilsu]

Louisville and Cincinnati would be crazy to turn down the B12.  More money and who would you rather have come into your home stadium?  Texas and Oklahoma?  Or Central Florida and SMU?  Nothing says "small potatos" more than what BE football is morphing into.

Not to mention that the B12 basketball conference really isn't *that* bad.  Add Louisville and Cincy to a mix of Kansas, KSU and Texas?  Not shabby.

Reality is often crazy.

[GOO]

Without a big buy out in place, this is all meaningless bs.  Is ESPN  involved in this process?  I hope so.  espn was involved in PItt and SU to the ACC! 
Need a big buy out now and Tv deal to add teams.  anything less should be a no vote on expansion by the B-ball schools.  also a provision that the bsketball schools cannot be voted out and have a right to disband the conference at a point in time and keep the BE name.  Else we should not approve adding the SMU's, etc.