Big East to Implode Sunday? Mass Exodus being Predicted

[Tulsa Warrior]

SMU and TCU would give the BE a strong foothold in the Dallas-Forth Worth Metroplex.  A few as two and as many as four of these schools will be part on of the Big East -- Navy, Army, Air Force, Temple, Central Florida and SMU.

[muhs03]

SMU and TCU would give the BE a strong foothold in the Dallas-Forth Worth Metroplex.  A few as two and as many as four of these schools will be part on of the Big East -- Navy, Army, Air Force, Temple, Central Florida and SMU.

The BE markets are so overrated its amazing. The BE supposedly has NYC, all of Jersey, Philly, DC and Chicago. With that said, why did the slow, boring B10 brand of basketball outdraw the BE when comparing conference tournaments just last year? I was lead to believe that MSG was the end all, be all? I guess America didnt like UConns story....

[Aughnanure]

I'm fine with basketball only, but ten teams just isn't enough. Once the excitement fades, you'll end up with a conference that averages 2-4 bids a year, like the A-10. I'm not saying the quality won't be there, just that the bids won't be.

DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Notre Dame
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
Temple
UMass
Richmond
George Mason
St. Louis

I know, Temple and UMass have football. Well, if they aren't in the Big East, they'll be parking their football in the MAC anyway. We already have Notre Dame, and to a lesser extent, Villanova, so why not? Butler, Richmond, and George Mason have all shown sustained NCAA success over the years and the ability to compete at this level. And St. Louis brings a nice market, history, and extends us west a little bit. If people would rather Creighton, VCU, Missouri State, George Washington, or Old Dominion, I can see an argument over SLU for any of them, but the simple truth is that there are high-level teams out there. We should be putting together a conference that can be considered one of the best in the country from day one, not one that's destined to fall to obscurity.

George Mason really does nothing for me. If a school in the DC/MD/VA area gets added it would be George Washington, and thats not happening.

Even with that, I think Creighton, Wichita St & Charlotte are better options and of course Memphis if they'd be interested.

My DREAM 16-Team Conference w/ only BBall-onlies and A-10 schools


BIG EAST

EAST: St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, UMass

ATLANTIC: Georgetown, Villanova, Temple, Richmond

MIDWEST: Xavier, Dayton, Butler, Notre Dame

WEST:  Marquette, DePaul, St. Louis, Creighton

[bamamarquettefan]

I have to believe we win our division most years in that set up

[Litehouse]

With that said, why did the slow, boring B10 brand of basketball outdraw the BE when comparing conference tournaments just last year? I was lead to believe that MSG was the end all, be all? I guess America didnt like UConns story....

What the hell are you talking about?  Check the middle of p. 3
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/bdf2030046a3609298bddcc110a6426c/2011_NCAA_mens_basketball_attendance.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=bdf2030046a3609298bddcc110a6426c
Big East Conference Tournament
Total Attendance - 155,000
Per Session - 19,375

Big Ten Conference Tournament
Total Attendance - 86,767
Per Session - 17,353

And the tickets were more expensive too...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/03/10/big-east-basketball-tourney-most-expensive-among-bcs-conference-tourneys/

[Benny B]

The BE markets are so overrated its amazing. The BE supposedly has NYC, all of Jersey, Philly, DC and Chicago. With that said, why did the slow, boring B10 brand of basketball outdraw the BE when comparing conference tournaments just last year? I was lead to believe that MSG was the end all, be all? I guess America didnt like UConns story....

Although you didn't explicitly compare the Big East to the Pokey Little Puppy, your answer deserves the same response.

There are two obvious reasons - along the lines of so obvious it would pain to see a Marquette alum not fully grasp it - and one secondary (and related) reason the B1? tourney outdraws the Big East tourney, and it has nothing to do with the markets:

1) Population - Vast numbers of Big 1? alumni in Chicago and Indianapolis vs. Big East in NYC - speaking in terms of those in close proximity to where the tournaments are played, not a Big East alum who lives in Stamford.

2) "Student Accessibility" - Every [original] Big Ten school except Minnesota is within a four hour drive of Indianapolis or Chicago.

3) Convenience - Have you been to Indianapolis?  I would challenge you to find a more ideal location for a major sporting event than downtown Indy.  They have everything: freeway accessibility from four directions, plenty of 2- through 5-star lodging, night life, restaurants, parks, well-shaved bums, paddle-boat rentals, night life, a zoo, monuments and landmarks, the NCAA HQ, a shopping mall, night life, ample parking, state-of-the-art NFL and NBA facilities, a major convention center --- ALL WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF EACH OTHER.  
(Note: I mention night life multiple times because many people seem to think that's a mistake if I only say it once.)

EDIT:  By the way, MSG is not the "end all be all," it is the Mecca of Basketball... semantics are important because the analogy is quite apropos: if you've seen pictures or heard stories of the Hadj, it's understandable why most only make the pilgrimage once.

[Skatastrophy]

There are two obvious reasons - along the lines of so obvious it would pain to see a Marquette alum not fully grasp it - and one secondary (and related) reason the B1? tourney outdraws the Big East tourney, and it has nothing to do with the markets:

Do you mean "reasons that the Big Tweleven tourney *should* outdraw the BEast tourney?"  Because they were nowhere near outdrawing the BEast tourney...

[muhs03]

I meant television, not physical attendance.

[jmct]

Sitting on the wooden bleacher seats at the Naval Academy watching MU play in front of 2,500 fans would be cool.  The BE basketball is a bigger stage than Leigh, Bucknell, etc.   

Navy's AD has made it very clear that they are interested in the BE only for football.    They will stay in the Patriot League for all other sports.

[Benny B]

Do you mean "reasons that the Big Tweleven tourney *should* outdraw the BEast tourney?"  Because they were nowhere near outdrawing the BEast tourney...

Mea culpa... when I hear "outdraw" that means physical attendance.  I think of television when I hear terms like "ratings" or "viewership."

However, it would not surprise me if the Big 1? outdrew - physically with butts in seats - the Big East tourney on a game average basis (since the Big East has more games).  If indeed true, it also wouldn't surprise me if the Big 1? tournament garnered higher ratings than the Big East tourney, given that more Big East games occur during the week and the Big Ten championship game is on SS (when nothing else is on); however, I bet if you could somehow normalize ratings for day-of-week & time-of-day, the Big East would be a far-and-away winner.

I meant television, not physical attendance.

My bad, but understanding you're talking TV now, I'm interested in reviewing your source on the ratings figures.

[Pakuni]

I meant television, not physical attendance.

Television viewership really wasn't all that far apart this year (3.3 million viewers for BE, 3.7 million for Big 10).
Add to the fact that the Big 10 game featured two school with massive enrollments (a combined 100,000 ... 65,000 more than those in the BE matchup), alumni bases and are THE school in 6th and 7th largest states in the country, is it really all that much of a surprise?

[Litehouse]

However, it would not surprise me if the Big 1? outdrew - physically with butts in seats - the Big East tourney on a game average basis (since the Big East has more games).

Read my post above.  Big East "outdrew" the Big Ten by every measure.

As far as TV ratings, the Big Ten championship game is in a more desirable time-slot (Sunday afternoon vs. Sat. night), is the lead in for the selection show, and as Pakuni mentioned, featured massive state schools from populous states.  I'm suprised it's as close as it was. (3.3 vs. 3.7)

[NersEllenson]

I meant television, not physical attendance.

Lame.  Yeah - most people use the word "outdraw" when referring to TV ratings.  Why don't you just go back to the Syracuse board and hang out there...your continued defense of CUSE, and dismissal of the now existing members/package of the Big East is growing tiresome.

[muhs03]

Lame.  Yeah - most people use the word "outdraw" when referring to TV ratings.  Why don't you just go back to the Syracuse board and hang out there...your continued defense of CUSE, and dismissal of the now existing members/package of the Big East is growing tiresome.

LOL. What?!? Man, If Im as insufferable as you when I turn middle-aged, shoot me.

[Benny B]

Read my post above.  Big East "outdrew" the Big Ten by every measure.

As far as TV ratings, the Big Ten championship game is in a more desirable time-slot (Sunday afternoon vs. Sat. night), is the lead in for the selection show, and as Pakuni mentioned, featured massive state schools from populous states.  I'm suprised it's as close as it was. (3.3 vs. 3.7)

Yes, I get that the physical attendance was higher.  I was saying IF the Big 1? outdrew - be that anytime now, in the past or future - it wouldn't surprise me for the reasons mentioned above.

As far as the TV ratings, you're dead on with the lead-in factor to SS.  In fact, the 3.7 might be the peak figure, not the start or average, which takes advantage of the portion of the nearly 8 million people tuning in early for SS.  The Big East championship game's ratings don't have the luxury of being artificially inflated by replays of the World Series of Poker on Sat night.

Nevertheless, I was able to find that total viewership for the BE Tournament was nearly 19 million viewers.  Marquette/Villanova actually had 1.5 million tuned in on Wed night.  For two schools whose combined alumni base is probably a tenth of the average Big Ten school, they drew more than half as many viewers for a quarterfinal game as the Big 1? did for their championship.  Not too shabby.

Still haven't found (still waiting) total viewership for the Big Ten Tournament.

[NersEllenson]

LOL. What?!? Man, If Im as insufferable as you when I turn middle-aged, shoot me.

Hopefully by the time you are middle aged you will be man enough to come out of the closet, instead of pretending to be something you are not:  An MU fan 1st a Syracuse fan 2nd.

Pretty clear in this thread you've been outed on your lame statement about the Big 10 "outdrawing" the Big East - yet you still can't be honest about your intention. 

I wonder if 1 reason CUSE left the Big East was due to being bounced in the NCAA tourney by a meek program like Marquette?  2 defeats to such an inferior school, program, and city - may have been enough to make CUSE want to leave?  Cuse getting all kinds of Top 50 recruits yet Boheim couldn't beat Buzz Williams's JUCO kids and Buzz's squad in just his 3rd year on the job? 

Later Speakeasy..

[GGGG]

LOL. What?!? Man, If Im as insufferable as you when I turn middle-aged, shoot me.

You must not run afoul of the "Ners Loyalty Test!" (tm)

[MUCam]

You must not run afoul of the "Ners Loyalty Test!" (tm)

I actually considered dropping the "MU" in "MUCam" after failing the test some months ago.

[avid1010]

I meant television, not physical attendance.

out-draw in TV???

[muhs03]

out-draw in TV???

Am I not allowed to be hung-over after yesterday's sports events?

[MUMac]

Am I not allowed to be hung-over after yesterday's sports events?

I reread your comments and I can see how everyone was confused.  As I reread, I could tell you meant viewers and misstated, until I read the MSG comment.  That brought everyone, I included, to believe it was attendance.  Taking the MSG out, it is clear that it was a misstated word.

As for the viewership, though, the schedule is a huge factor in that.  The BE is on TV from Tues-Sat, with the bulk of the games at night.  The BE is a Thurs-Sun event with the bulk of the games during the day.  The Sunday spot is the prime spot - just before the Tournament Selection.  The BE is on a Saturday Night. 

In addition, the BE is on ESPN, while the B1? is on CBS as a lead in to the Tournament Selection.  I would expect, given that scheduling and networks that the B1? would have a larger viewership.  In fact, I am surprised the viewership spread was so close.

[NersEllenson]

I reread your comments and I can see how everyone was confused.  As I reread, I could tell you meant viewers and misstated, until I read the MSG comment.  That brought everyone, I included, to believe it was attendance.  Taking the MSG out, it is clear that it was a misstated word.

As for the viewership, though, the schedule is a huge factor in that.  The BE is on TV from Tues-Sat, with the bulk of the games at night.  The BE is a Thurs-Sun event with the bulk of the games during the day.  The Sunday spot is the prime spot - just before the Tournament Selection.  The BE is on a Saturday Night. 

In addition, the BE is on ESPN, while the B1? is on CBS as a lead in to the Tournament Selection.  I would expect, given that scheduling and networks that the B1? would have a larger viewership.  In fact, I am surprised the viewership spread was so close.

The bigger question is why all the hate (by MUHS03) toward the Big East and Big East markets and Madison Square Garden - and glorification of the Big 10??  Kind of bizarre for an MU fan to belittle the Big East when most around here have been freaking out over the potential dissolving of the Big East...

[GGGG]

I think his point is that if individual markets meant so much, the BE wouldn't be at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to television revenue.  And I have argued this from the beginning whenever we were talking about BE expansion or the basketball schools seperating off.  The key isn't what "market" a program is in...it matters how passionate a fan-base is and how that turns into eyeballs.  IOW, this is why the B10 takes Nebraska and not Rutgers.

So yeah...the BE markets are overrated if people in those markets aren't engaged.

[muhs03]

I think his point is that if individual markets meant so much, the BE wouldn't be at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to television revenue.  And I have argued this from the beginning whenever we were talking about BE expansion or the basketball schools seperating off.  The key isn't what "market" a program is in...it matters how passionate a fan-base is and how that turns into eyeballs.  IOW, this is why the B10 takes Nebraska and not Rutgers.

So yeah...the BE markets are overrated if people in those markets aren't engaged.

Pretty sure I was still drunk when I woke up this morning, but this is pretty much what I was trying to say.

[avid1010]

Pretty sure I was still drunk when I woke up this morning, but this is pretty much what I was trying to say.

I apologize for questioning someone who thinks it's cool to talk about being drunk when he wakes up in the morning.  You are the coolest.