From Xavierhoops

[Litehouse]

Fastest growing university in the nation, alumni base set to double in next 15-20 years, over 50,000 students, top-20 media market in rabid college football state, both Jordan boys playing hoops there, 3 bowl appearances last 4 years, UCF is a no-brainer.

Just look at where there athletics were 15 years ago and where they are now and it's ludicrous. Add in their insane growth and it becomes clear that it's not just a "good run". They're on the come.

15 years ago Daunte Culpepper was their starting QB and I haven't heard anything about them since he graduated.  If adding UCF is what it takes to keep the Big East together, then fine, we aren't really in a position to complain much right now.  But it's another move to weaken basketball for lousy football.

[Benny B]

Fastest growing university in the nation, alumni base set to double in next 15-20 years, over 50,000 students, top-20 media market in rabid college football state, both Jordan boys playing hoops there, 3 bowl appearances last 4 years, UCF is a no-brainer.

Just look at where there athletics were 15 years ago and where they are now and it's ludicrous. Add in their insane growth and it becomes clear that it's not just a "good run". They're on the come.

Don't forget the most important factor --- the Orlando TV market is #19 nationwide.

[Dr. Blackheart]

UCF beat ACC football stalwart Boston College 30-3 two weeks ago....and then turned around and lost to Fla. International.  Maybe it should be FI to the BE?

[Pakuni]

Don't forget the most important factor --- the Orlando TV market is #19 nationwide.

The size of the TV market matters only if the school/team looms large in the market.
Chicago is the #3 market in the nation, but nobody here has Big East basketball fever  because DePaul is largely irrelevant in the market.
I can't imagine many households in Orlando are tuning in to watch UCF on Saturdays if the Gators and/or Seminoles are playing.

[brewcity77]

The size of the TV market matters only if the school/team looms large in the market.
Chicago is the #3 market in the nation, but nobody here has Big East basketball fever  because DePaul is largely irrelevant in the market.
I can't imagine many households in Orlando are tuning in to watch UCF on Saturdays if the Gators and/or Seminoles are playing.

UCF's alumni base is growing by leaps and bounds, however. They are estimated to have a base of 170,000 and awarded their 200,000th degree last year, just 5 years after awarding their 150,000th. Put them in a BCS conference and earning a couple BCS berths (they could do that from the Big East) and while they won't surpass UF or FSU any time soon, they could carve out a very sizable chunk within 10-15 years.

When people look at UCF as a throwaway, they are looking at them now. Remember their football program is just 15 years old. They became ranked for the first time in basketball last year. They average nearly 40,000 fans a game for football.  Over the course of the next two decades, no one in the country has more growth potential than UCF. They would potentially be a huge boon to the Big East.

[mu03eng]

I think the ACC is holding out for ND and Texas also.  They aren't going to add Rutgers and UConn when there's still a chance they can get those 2.  If they had to, ND would take the ACC over the Big Tweleven.

You said this in the other thread but I still hold its simply not true, ND prefers the Big 10.  The only people really pushing the ND-ACC story is ESPN because they have a vested interest in getting ND in the ACC for their own programing purposes.  ESPN doesn't have that same interest if ND goes Big 10 hence the slanted reporting.  The only reports of ND to the ACC are from ESPN and their associated sycophants.

[brewcity77]

You said this in the other thread but I still hold its simply not true, ND prefers the Big 10.  The only people really pushing the ND-ACC story is ESPN because they have a vested interest in getting ND in the ACC for their own programing purposes.  ESPN doesn't have that same interest if ND goes Big 10 hence the slanted reporting.  The only reports of ND to the ACC are from ESPN and their associated sycophants.

If I were a ND fan, I'd probably favor the ACC too. While the Big Ten is a better football conference and has more rivalries for them (UM, MSU, Purdue, even Indiana) the truth is they simply aren't in a position to compete. If Notre Dame were still a national power, I'd say go for the Big Ten. But if they want a chance to compete, they are better off in the ACC. They can't realistically compete with the Ohio States, the Wisconsins, or the Nebraskas of the football world. They have a better chance taking aim at teams like FSU, Virginia Tech, or Miami that may still be good but aren't what they once were (like ND).

Football is Notre Dame's main priority, and everyone knows a middle-of-the-road team like them has a better chance of reaching a conference title game and beyond in the ACC than they do in the Big 10. No matter what they may have done to MSU last week, they just can't compete at the Big 10 level anymore.

[bilsu]

15 years ago Daunte Culpepper was their starting QB and I haven't heard anything about them since he graduated.  If adding UCF is what it takes to keep the Big East together, then fine, we aren't really in a position to complain much right now.  But it's another move to weaken basketball for lousy football.

Sure based on history they have not been good in basketball. However, there is a possibility that joining the Bog East results in an uptick in their basketball program. Of course you can point to South Florida as evidence it would not. It stinks to lose Pittsburg and Syracuse, but I think that means we will generally finish two spots higher in the standings and that is not all bad.

[Pakuni]

If I were a ND fan, I'd probably favor the ACC too. While the Big Ten is a better football conference and has more rivalries for them (UM, MSU, Purdue, even Indiana) the truth is they simply aren't in a position to compete. If Notre Dame were still a national power, I'd say go for the Big Ten. But if they want a chance to compete, they are better off in the ACC. They can't realistically compete with the Ohio States, the Wisconsins, or the Nebraskas of the football world. They have a better chance taking aim at teams like FSU, Virginia Tech, or Miami that may still be good but aren't what they once were (like ND).

Football is Notre Dame's main priority, and everyone knows a middle-of-the-road team like them has a better chance of reaching a conference title game and beyond in the ACC than they do in the Big 10. No matter what they may have done to MSU last week, they just can't compete at the Big 10 level anymore.

All of which is why Notre Dame remains independent. The moment they join a conference they lose what makes them "special" in many people's eyes - most notably that of their alumni - and become just another middle-of-the-road ACC/Big 1? team. They also lose the right to make their own schedule, have their own national television deal and do whatever they see fit under their own terms.
Notre Dame, unlike probably every other school out there, doesn't need a conference affiliation to remain relevant. Heck, Notre Dame doesn't even need to win to remain relevant. Quality teams of ND's choosing will always be willing to schedule them because officials at those schools know a game against Notre Dame will draw more media attention than nearly every other game on the schedule, put paying customers in seats and out eyes on television sets. As for fear of being locked out of a BCS-only bowl/championship system, I don't think that'll ever happen. The TV networks will insist upon Notre Dame having a chance to participate, just as they did under the current BCS format.

The only real benefit for Notre Dame to join a conference is that it might bring in a few more million dollars and protect its non-football sports. But those other sports are an afterthought in South Bend. they're not going to trade away all the benefits of football independence for the sake of helping the field hockey and soccer teams. and while nobody minds making more money, ND football already brings in $57 million. They aren't hard up, and are unlikely to trade away their independence and p*ss off their alumni -  most of whom prefer independence - for the sake of a few million more.

[Lennys Tap]

Sorry Brew, but saying that Notre Dame can't compete at the Big 10 level in football is absurd. They're in the third year of a "re-emphasizing" program under Kelly. If they went to the Big 10 next year they'd enter with their program ahead of Minnesota, Northwestern, Purdue Illinois and Indiana and on equal footing with Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Iowa and Nebraska and behind Ohio State and Wisconsin. How does that make them noncompetitive?

[Pakuni]

Sorry Brew, but saying that Notre Dame can't compete at the Big 10 level in football is absurd. They're in the third year of a "re-emphasizing" program under Kelly. If they went to the Big 10 next year they'd enter with their program ahead of Minnesota, Northwestern, Purdue Illinois and Indiana and on equal footing with Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Iowa and Nebraska and behind Ohio State and Wisconsin. How does that make them noncompetitive?

Oh .... and they looked pretty competitive against the Big 10 on Saturday.

[GGGG]

The only real benefit for Notre Dame to join a conference is that it might bring in a few more million dollars and protect its non-football sports.

A few million?  Joining the B10 would double their $$$.  However pissing off their alumni in the process might just give that all back.

[Pakuni]

A few million?  Joining the B10 would double their $$$.  However pissing off their alumni in the process might just give that all back.

Joining the Big 1? would make Notre Dame another $57 million?
I'm slightly skeptical of that claim.
According to a Chicago Tribune story from a year ago, Notre Dame would make about $5 million more from joining the Big 10. Sure, that's nothing to sneeze at, but it's not money Notre Dame needs, and probably not enough to outweigh all its perceived benefits of independence.

[Litehouse]

You said this in the other thread but I still hold its simply not true, ND prefers the Big 10.  The only people really pushing the ND-ACC story is ESPN because they have a vested interest in getting ND in the ACC for their own programing purposes.  ESPN doesn't have that same interest if ND goes Big 10 hence the slanted reporting.  The only reports of ND to the ACC are from ESPN and their associated sycophants.

I disagree.  I think ND would prefer the ACC.  If they join the Big Ten they're just another midwest college in a midwest conference, nothing to differentiate themselves.  They relate more to the east coast, and would rather have the east coast exposure.  Then they can differentiate themselves as the midwest option in the east coast conference.

[GGGG]

Joining the Big 1? would make Notre Dame another $57 million?

I was under the impression that NBC paid them about $9M, and that the Big Ten would pay about $20M.

[brewcity77]

I was under the impression that NBC paid them about $9M, and that the Big Ten would pay about $20M.

I'm sure it's still less than their cut of the BTN would be, but don't they get another chunk from the Big East basketball contract? It certainly wouldn't even out, but doesn't it get them to $13M combined (or is $4M the football schools...)?

[mu03eng]

I disagree.  I think ND would prefer the ACC.  If they join the Big Ten they're just another midwest college in a midwest conference, nothing to differentiate themselves.  They relate more to the east coast, and would rather have the east coast exposure.  Then they can differentiate themselves as the midwest option in the east coast conference.

ND doesn't fancy themselves a midwestern school.  They view themselves as a US school and independent of anything so provincial as regional alignment and/or branding.  They have their own tv contract for gods sake.  This would be all about eye balls and reputation.  The Big 10 has a much bigger academic rep than the ACC and a much better network than the ACC.  And while OSU has had issues of late with ethics Miami has a terrible reputation going back years and I doubt that ND wants to be associated with that on a regular basis.

[Skatastrophy]

ND doesn't fancy themselves a midwestern school.  They view themselves as a US school and independent of anything so provincial as regional alignment and/or branding.  They have their own tv contract for gods sake.  This would be all about eye balls and reputation.  The Big 10 has a much bigger academic rep than the ACC and a much better network than the ACC.  And while OSU has had issues of late with ethics Miami has a terrible reputation going back years and I doubt that ND wants to be associated with that on a regular basis.

So you're saying that ND would intentionally choose the weaker conference?

They're in the BEast for everything but Football, why would they suddenly make a decision of academics over competition when that hasn't been the case in the past?

[muhs03]

ND doesn't fancy themselves a midwestern school.  They view themselves as a US school and independent of anything so provincial as regional alignment and/or branding.  They have their own tv contract for gods sake.  This would be all about eye balls and reputation.  The Big 10 has a much bigger academic rep than the ACC and a much better network than the ACC.  And while OSU has had issues of late with ethics Miami has a terrible reputation going back years and I doubt that ND wants to be associated with that on a regular basis.

The B1G's academic reputation is much better than the ACC's, yes, but ND is not a research giant like so many of the B1G schools are. ND prides itself on its undergraduate experience - something more in-line with the ACC, for sure. Besides, its not about academics anyways (see Nebraska). ND would prob take a B1G invite over an ACC invite because of traditional rivalries, money and exposure...not academics.

[Pakuni]

I was under the impression that NBC paid them about $9M, and that the Big Ten would pay about $20M.

OK. You weren't clear that you meant exclusively NBC revenues vs all Big 1? revenues.

Big 10 schools got about $20 million apiece in shared revenues (TV, B10 network, bowl money, gate, etc.), according to the Chicago Tribune. I've seen it listed as high as $22 million elsewhere.

NBC pays Notre Dame $15 million a year for TV rights to football, according to the New York Times. The Big East basketball TV contract reportedly nets teams $2 million per year. The NCAA tournament payout for Big East members this year reportedly was $1.2 million. Notre Dame currently does not have to share any of its other revenues (i.e. gate, merchandise) nor do they share whatever bowl payouts they receive, unlike Big 1? schools. Those figures vary, or are unavailable, but safe to say for ND it's in the millions of dollars.
So, given all that, the Trib's estimate of a $3-5 million net gain for Notre Dame seems, if anything, optimistic.

[PJDunn]

The B1G's academic reputation is much better than the ACC's, yes, but ND is not a research giant like so many of the B1G schools are. ND prides itself on its undergraduate experience - something more in-line with the ACC, for sure. Besides, its not about academics anyways (see Nebraska). ND would prob take a B1G invite over an ACC invite because of traditional rivalries, money and exposure...not academics.

I'm not sure the B10's academic reputation is that much better than the ACC.  Clemson is a joke, but then the B10 added a glorified junior college with Nebraska...FSU and Ohio State are pretty much on par, Virginia and North Carolina are on par with the two best state schools the B10 has (Michigan and Illinois), Duke is every bit as prestigious as North Carolina.  They may be a bit weaker, but not by much.  At the end of the day, ND's decision will be guided by $$.  Just like the rest of the slime pit that is college athletics.

[77ncaachamps]

What private schools can really thrive in D1 athletics OUTSIDE a BCS?

Stanford, Southern Cal, Boston College, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Duke are all in BCS conferences.

[bilsu]

OK. You weren't clear that you meant exclusively NBC revenues vs all Big 1? revenues.

Big 10 schools got about $20 million apiece in shared revenues (TV, B10 network, bowl money, gate, etc.), according to the Chicago Tribune. I've seen it listed as high as $22 million elsewhere.

NBC pays Notre Dame $15 million a year for TV rights to football, according to the New York Times. The Big East basketball TV contract reportedly nets teams $2 million per year. The NCAA tournament payout for Big East members this year reportedly was $1.2 million. Notre Dame currently does not have to share any of its other revenues (i.e. gate, merchandise) nor do they share whatever bowl payouts they receive, unlike Big 1? schools. Those figures vary, or are unavailable, but safe to say for ND it's in the millions of dollars.
So, given all that, the Trib's estimate of a $3-5 million net gain for Notre Dame seems, if anything, optimistic.

I think ND's footbal TV contract was signed quite a while ago. I am not sure when it ends. Prices have gone up since then, so it is possible a new contract could pay a lot more money. However, I am not sure if Notre Dame is as valuable a product as it was when it signed the current contract and therefore they might not get as much when it is time for a new deal.

[PE8983]

Kelly's in his 2nd year.

[muhs03]

Kelly's in his 2nd year.

And will be bringing in some VERY good recruits next year. Of course, this has been said before with previous coaches but....