Football Is Needed To Remain Elite

[chapman]

I would want a fball team regardless if we were good or not.

Can only imagine how quickly this tune would change when we win one game in three years playing FCS and D2 teams and are ridiculed by Badger fans after getting blown out by UW-Platteville. 

[Big Papi]

Its too late to start a football program now but if we had started one 10 years ago or earlier, there is a better chance that the Big East conference would have remained intact. 

The problem with the Big East has always been that they don't have enough football programs.  Ten football programs would have provided more stability, and with twelve even more.  ACC football is no better than the Big East but they have stability and that is why Pitt and Syracuse have decided to leave.  Plus the football programs end up with more shared revenue then the non-football programs and even if we are still bleeding red at least it gets you into a discussion if everything starts to fall apart. 

I think no matter how you slice it, going to a basketball only league will be a huge step down. 

 

[brewcity77]

Its too late to start a football program now but if we had started one 10 years ago or earlier, there is a better chance that the Big East conference would have remained intact. 

The problem with the Big East has always been that they don't have enough football programs.  Ten football programs would have provided more stability, and with twelve even more.  ACC football is no better than the Big East but they have stability and that is why Pitt and Syracuse have decided to leave.  Plus the football programs end up with more shared revenue then the non-football programs and even if we are still bleeding red at least it gets you into a discussion if everything starts to fall apart. 

I think no matter how you slice it, going to a basketball only league will be a huge step down.

Because a 10-year-old Marquette football program after a 40-year hiatus would have done more for the Big East than a Villanova football program that seems largely responsible for pushing Pitt out of the league?

The only way our football program would have been relevant enough is if we hadn't gotten rid of it in 1960, or brought it back within 2-3 years. That ship sailed before most of us were even born.

[Guy Fieri's Dad]

Because a 10-year-old Marquette football program after a 40-year hiatus would have done more for the Big East than a Villanova football program that seems largely responsible for pushing Pitt out of the league?

The only way our football program would have been relevant enough is if we hadn't gotten rid of it in 1960, or brought it back within 2-3 years. That ship sailed before most of us were even born.

Just because a the program was killed in the 60's doesn't mean it can't be revived. Really football is a long term goal that couldn't be rushed into for all the reasons everybody (money, stadium etc.). However, long term they may need to be resolved if a basketball only conference that is nationally prominent isn't possible. To say those issues are impossible to overcome is just wrong (might not be easy but not nearly impossible).

It would be nice if we had a program just so we wouldn't have to listen to all those "I couldn't get into nd so I went to mu students" or the its ok to cheer for wisco cuz we don't have a team, people drone on all fall. Obviously this is not a reason to start a program but would be a benefit of having one.

[Brewtown Andy]

Just because a the program was killed in the 60's doesn't mean it can't be revived.

The creation of Title IX in the 1970s created a very large money wall that just gets bigger every year, so it kind of does mean it can't be revived.

Really football is a long term goal that couldn't be rushed into for all the reasons everybody (money, stadium etc.). However, long term they may need to be resolved if a basketball only conference that is nationally prominent isn't possible. To say those issues are impossible to overcome is just wrong (might not be easy but not nearly impossible).

I'm not saying they're impossible. I'm saying they're equivalent to Don Quixote tilting at windmills: Pointless and insane.

It would be nice if we had a program just so we wouldn't have to listen to all those "I couldn't get into nd so I went to mu students" or the its ok to cheer for wisco cuz we don't have a team, people drone on all fall. Obviously this is not a reason to start a program but would be a benefit of having one.

These people are dragging you down in life. ESPECIALLY anyone who thinks it's okay to cheer for Bucky under any circumstances.

I'm not saying this for my health: You need to read this before you keep going on and on.

[LON]

Just because a the program was killed in the 60's doesn't mean it can't be revived. Really football is a long term goal that couldn't be rushed into for all the reasons everybody (money, stadium etc.). However, long term they may need to be resolved if a basketball only conference that is nationally prominent isn't possible. To say those issues are impossible to overcome is just wrong (might not be easy but not nearly impossible).

It would be nice if we had a program just so we wouldn't have to listen to all those "I couldn't get into nd so I went to mu students" or the its ok to cheer for wisco cuz we don't have a team, people drone on all fall. Obviously this is not a reason to start a program but would be a benefit of having one.

And a benefit to having 3 hands would be picking my nose, scratching my ass and my balls all at the same time...that doesn't mean I want to be able to do that.

/not sure what this means
//it's equally as dumb as the call for having MU football

[brewcity77]

I'm not saying this for my health: You need to read this before you keep going on and on.

Maybe he doesn't get the whole "link embedded in text" thing you got going there.

universitypark, click the link below:

http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2011/9/20/2437616/marquette-football-undefeated-since-1960-and-staying-that-way









.

[Guy Fieri's Dad]

Already read it. None of it refutes my argument that all of those issues can be worked out with time and planning. I'm not advocating starting a program this second because that's insane, I agree. But, with planning all of the issues can be overcome and there are lots of cases where this has been done and that makes a squad viable.

Let me spell it out short term equals failure. Long term with proper planning equals possible. To argue otherwise is to deny that money can be raised eventually (it could), stadium could be found (it could no matter the cost if school committed long term to it it eventually could be paid for "its called borrowing or leans"), title IX other schools dealt with it (so possible) really its where money comes back into the argument and having the necessary funding for other women's programs so that a football squad would even be legal.

Is it possible today no with proper planning long term yes.

[GGGG]

I think Marquette should build a roof over the entire campus.  Absurd you say?  Hey, "long term planning equals possible."

(And I actually think my idea is more possible than football is.)

[brewcity77]

Already read it. None of it refutes my argument that all of those issues can be worked out with time and planning. I'm not advocating starting a program this second because that's insane, I agree. But, with planning all of the issues can be overcome and there are lots of cases where this has been done and that makes a squad viable.

Let me spell it out short term equals failure. Long term with proper planning equals possible. To argue otherwise is to deny that money can be raised eventually (it could), stadium could be found (it could no matter the cost if school committed long term to it it eventually could be paid for "its called borrowing or leans"), title IX other schools dealt with it (so possible) really its where money comes back into the argument and having the necessary funding for other women's programs so that a football squad would even be legal.

Is it possible today no with proper planning long term yes.

The stadium isn't just about money (though that's a huge roadblock) it's about geography. Where do you put it? Where are you going to get scholarship money to offset Title IX? Even if you raise the money for a football program, stadium, and scholarships (unlikely, but if you so) you still need more money to start another 4-5 programs of women's sports. That won't be such an easy sell.

Don't say "maybe we can, maybe if we plan", give legitimate answers. The problem is that there aren't any. That's why Broeker dismissed this out of hand on WSSP. It has no basis in reality.

Until you tell us where you can put a 25,000+ seat stadium and where you can get money for not just football scholarships but also all the Title IX sports you'll have to start, stop wasting time with this thread. Without concrete answers, you're just sucking up bandwidth.

[Brewtown Andy]

Already read it. None of it refutes my argument that all of those issues can be worked out with time and planning. I'm not advocating starting a program this second because that's insane, I agree. But, with planning all of the issues can be overcome and there are lots of cases where this has been done and that makes a squad viable.

Let me spell it out short term equals failure. Long term with proper planning equals possible. To argue otherwise is to deny that money can be raised eventually (it could), stadium could be found (it could no matter the cost if school committed long term to it it eventually could be paid for "its called borrowing or leans"), title IX other schools dealt with it (so possible) really its where money comes back into the argument and having the necessary funding for other women's programs so that a football squad would even be legal.

Is it possible today no with proper planning long term yes.

Here's the problem with your long term planning:

Marquette's screwed NOW.

[Guy Fieri's Dad]

Like arguing with brick walls.

[tower912]

I admire your passion.   Call up MU and offer to head up the $200 million dollar fundraising and take the point for this.   You have found your calling.    Prove us all wrong. 

[rocky_warrior]

I think Marquette should build a roof over the entire campus.  Absurd you say?  Hey, "long term planning equals possible."

(And I actually think my idea is more possible than football is.)

Possibly cheaper too.  Unless you want a retractable roof. 

[jsglow]

Possibly cheaper too.  Unless you want a retractable roof. 

I like it.  The roof opens up on those perfect spring weekend days so the kids can go out and tan in Westown mall.  I think as a cost saving feature we leave Central Mall uncovered for about 20 years.  That way the current generation of students can complain at their Reunion that only 'part' of the campus was covered back in the day and that the current kids have it easy.

[brewcity77]

Like arguing with brick walls.

Well, you offered a suggestion, people argued why it wasn't possible, you have yet to come up with a reasonable counter to that argument. I'm sure if you told people where the stadium money, location, scholarship money, and compensatory Title IX sports will come from, people would be happy to listen.

Most people prefer to live in reality, and until you can show how in a real world this can happen, people will continue to do just that.

[chapman]

I think Marquette should build a roof over the entire campus.  Absurd you say?  Hey, "long term planning equals possible."

(And I actually think my idea is more possible than football is.)

How about just having underground tunnels so kids don't have to go outside to get to classes anymore?  If MN-Duluth has it I refuse to believe we can't reroute the sewer system and start digging!  They even have football and baseball!

[Brewtown Andy]

Well, you offered a suggestion, people argued why it wasn't possible, you have yet to come up with a reasonable counter to that argument. I'm sure if you told people where the stadium money, location, scholarship money, and compensatory Title IX sports will come from, people would be happy to listen.

Most people prefer to live in reality, and until you can show how in a real world this can happen, people will continue to do just that.

Marty! You're not thinking four dimensionally!

[MUMac]

How about just having underground tunnels so kids don't have to go outside to get to classes anymore?  If MN-Duluth has it I refuse to believe we can't reroute the sewer system and start digging!  They even have football and baseball!

Man, can you imagine the bad press in the Chicago Tribune when we have a large storm and the students are washed out into Lake Michigan because of the overflow of water?  Milwaukee's not so hot with the tunnel designs ...

[Skatastrophy]

Like arguing with brick walls.

It's funny that even though you've been presented with vast amounts of data and evidence you still believe that your opinions have more merit than facts.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Already read it. None of it refutes my argument that all of those issues can be worked out with time and planning. I'm not advocating starting a program this second because that's insane, I agree. But, with planning all of the issues can be overcome and there are lots of cases where this has been done and that makes a squad viable.

Let me spell it out short term equals failure. Long term with proper planning equals possible. To argue otherwise is to deny that money can be raised eventually (it could), stadium could be found (it could no matter the cost if school committed long term to it it eventually could be paid for "its called borrowing or leans"), title IX other schools dealt with it (so possible) really its where money comes back into the argument and having the necessary funding for other women's programs so that a football squad would even be legal.

Is it possible today no with proper planning long term yes.

I appreciate your optimism.

Most truly innovative ideas are seen as impossible or crazy until they actually work.

I also agree that with enough planning and forethought, anything is possible.

HOWEVER, the problem we have here is that football (even with enough planning and long term vision) is a financial nightmare.  

There is a TON of money required. (specifics are covered in other threads)

Now, if somebody won the uber-lottery tomorrow and donated 2 billion dollars to MU, they could afford football, right?

Wrong.

It's a bad bet. Throwing good money after bad. Or any other cliche that you want to use.

All of that $$ could go to making the school better for the students that actually attend. Hell, MU would be better off building it's own basketball arena than building a football stadium. Create some sort of indoor parking barn and give students/alumni a chance to tailgate in there. That's a far better use of the $$. Give away more scholarship $. Add a billion to the endowment. All better than starting football.

To put it another way:

Just because Green Bay has an NFL franchise doesn't mean than Duluth MN should have one. It wouldn't work. Too much $$.

Just because Boston College has a football team doesn't mean MU should have one. It's a ridiculous amount of money that can be used elsewhere to help the school.

[GGGG]

Like arguing with brick walls.

Look, even if you buy the argument that having football is very important to our basketball success, you still have to address the issue about how important even basketball success is to Marquette University. 

Marquette's primary goal is to educate students.  Period.  The basketball program is a means toward that goal.  It is a point of pride for alumni...is a great public relations vehicle for the institution, etc.  And you cannot argue that MU hasn't invested in the program.

However there comes a point that the amount of investment required isn't worth the marginal returns.  And that even if MU had those resources, they would be better spent elsewhere.  Such as increasing our scholarship endowment, academic building projects, etc.

So what I am saying is that even if MU gets a gift of $200M that it could use for anything it wanted, I would be extremely disappointed if they decided to use it to create a football program - no matter what the implications would be for basketball.

[StillAWarrior]

Look, even if you buy the argument that having football is very important to our basketball success, you still have to address the issue about how important even basketball success is to Marquette University. 

Marquette's primary goal is to educate students.  Period.  The basketball program is a means toward that goal.  It is a point of pride for alumni...is a great public relations vehicle for the institution, etc.  And you cannot argue that MU hasn't invested in the program.

However there comes a point that the amount of investment required isn't worth the marginal returns.  And that even if MU had those resources, they would be better spent elsewhere.  Such as increasing our scholarship endowment, academic building projects, etc.

So what I am saying is that even if MU gets a gift of $200M that it could use for anything it wanted, I would be extremely disappointed if they decided to use it to create a football program - no matter what the implications would be for basketball.

Hard to argue with any of this, even if the highlighted text was a bit of a revelation to me.

[Aughnanure]

Since we now have lacrosse, the only support I think MU should legitimately look into adding is hockey.....and then polo.

[muhs03]

Since we now have lacrosse, the only support I think MU should legitimately look into adding is hockey.....and then polo.

Hockey? You mean with all that money we'll get with the new contract and all the added gameday revenue we will get when ECU/UCF/Temple/whoever replaces Pitt and Syracuse? I doubt any sports will be added for a long time.