Back to mid-major status

[jt92]

Sorry everyone but it is Sunday evening and I have read a lot of comments on this board this weekend now it is time for me to vent.  It's no wonder we could not land certain recruits because before long we will be playing all our post season games in Dayton against teams like SLU, Dayton and St. Joes...and if we are lucky maybe even Xavier.  And the sad part is there are way too many people on this board who seem fine with that. 

There has been absolutely no sense of urgency from MU on possible conference contraction and its not like this came out of the blue.  With Pitt, SU gone and UConn to follow...the Big East is dead and so is MU's exposure.  That is a fact fellas. 

I certainly understand that football is driving this and that these decisions are really out of our hands...but for crying out loud who is running the MU ship right now?  New President? and what about our AD position? 

MCC here we come and for some its not a problem.

[GOO]

Glad your not in a position to have any say in this... it could turn out okay if we combine with some of the B12.

[PaintTouches]

What exactly could Marquette have done though? Seriously, I've seen a lo of these comments and I don't get it. Every single basketball school is in the same position, wait for the dust to settle then pounce. Nothing to be done until football has its say.

[texaswarrior74]

Yeah like Marquette had any real strength here...having no football program was eventually going to catch up to us and it has become a reality.

Looks like the Catholic conference is a little closer to reality tonight.

[Blackhat]

I think Pilarz is busy waiting by the phone to hear back from  his committee on the enthralling topic of "athlete culture" at MU.  Yippeeeee.


Take a walk outside Pilarz,   you don't need a committee of experts to tell you if our student athletes are behaving.

[Marqus Howard]

I think Pilarz is busy waiting by the phone to hear back from  his committee on the enthralling topic of "athlete culture" at MU.  Yippeeeee.


Take a walk outside Pilarz,   you don't need a committee of experts to tell you if our student athletes are behaving.

He's been here, what, a month? You already have a vendetta against him? He did well at the University of Scranton and I have no issues with what he said.

What else can he do, considering he wasn't President during the time of the assault? He can only work towards ensuring that the same issues do not arise again.

The timing of our change in Presidents is lamentable, given the instability with the Big East, but I don't think we can fault Pilarz for that...

[tower912]

MU is screwed, not because of anything MU has done, but because football is driving the bus......off of the cliff. 

[jt92]

Exactly..MU is screwed and I am Po'd about it that's all.  Some here believe that we shouldn't get upset, just sit back relax and if we end up playing in a mid major that's no problem.  I feel it is the end of MU bball as we know it and come to enjoy.  Maybe there is nothing MU can do, but can we at least change that perception?  And fans who don't seem to care adds fuel to that perception.  Of course there will be some knucklehead that will respond calling for people who agree with me to relax...and they are the same people who will try to spin that a MU-Dayton rivalry is good!

[brewcity77]

The position sucks, but we've known it was coming for awhile. If anyone's to blame, it's Pitt for blocking the last ESPN deal and the Big East commish for not pouncing on the likes of Kansas and K-State faster. If we had raided the Big 12 for 2-3 teams a week ago when it looked like they were dying, this probably doesn't happen.

Right now, rather than pissing and moaning, I'd rather look at the positives. I'd much rather be in a conference with teams like Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's going forward, and our affiliation with the Big East should help that. It may not be as good as it was a few days ago, but it's also not as bad as it could have been had we not joined the Big East a few years ago.

[tower912]

[quote author=jt92 link=topic=27743.msg319107#msg319107 date=1316432596  I feel it is the end of MU bball as we know it and come to enjoy.  Maybe there is nothing MU can do, but can we at least change that perception?  And fans who don't seem to care adds fuel to that perception.  Of course there will be some knucklehead that will respond calling for people who agree with me to relax...and they are the same people who will try to spin that a MU-Dayton rivalry is good!
[/quote]
I'll be that knucklehead.    Your options are (A) unrestrained panic (B) see how it all plays out and then panic....or not.  I'm choosing 'B'.   I cannot deny that this is a perfect abestorm against us....football driving the bus, new president, no AD, etc.    And we obviously aren't going to end up in one of the BCS football conferences.    But the BEast was founded by a bunch of basketball schools who built it into the premier basketball conference of all time.   Football is gutting that legacy, but there is nothing that says that a bunch of top-notch basketball programs can't pull together to form another top-notch league.   I foresee a basketball conference that competes with the BCS schools on the court, with high-major cache, emerging from this rubble.   The making of the sausage, however, is not going to be pretty. 

[tower912]

The schools with the most to lose are Louisville, Cinci, and South Florida.    Lousy academics and lousy football teams.   None are likely to be invited to the ACC or SEC (particularly Louisville.   Kentucky will block that, for sure)     Do they return to CUSA, or form up with the remnants of the B-12?   Probably the latter, but that league will be as unwieldly as CUSA.   

[GGGG]

Exactly..MU is screwed and I am Po'd about it that's all.  Some here believe that we shouldn't get upset, just sit back relax and if we end up playing in a mid major that's no problem.  I feel it is the end of MU bball as we know it and come to enjoy.  Maybe there is nothing MU can do, but can we at least change that perception?  And fans who don't seem to care adds fuel to that perception.  Of course there will be some knucklehead that will respond calling for people who agree with me to relax...and they are the same people who will try to spin that a MU-Dayton rivalry is good!

See, I feel that I've already lived through Marquette darkest basketball days - Dukiet and the MCC.  Being in a conference with other basketball schools like Nova and Georgetown, who are *just like us* isn't that big of a deal.  People lament that we don't have a football team - well we used to...and the reason we don't any longer is that they were poorly supported and they sucked.  Adding one ten years ago would have changed nothing that is going on now.  

Again, we are who we are.  MU is not Notre Dame.  We are not Boston College.  We are not Wisconsin.  That is simply a fact that we have to deal with.

[Hards Alumni]

Exactly..MU is screwed and I am Po'd about it that's all.  Some here believe that we shouldn't get upset, just sit back relax and if we end up playing in a mid major that's no problem.  I feel it is the end of MU bball as we know it and come to enjoy.  Maybe there is nothing MU can do, but can we at least change that perception?  And fans who don't seem to care adds fuel to that perception.  Of course there will be some knucklehead that will respond calling for people who agree with me to relax...and they are the same people who will try to spin that a MU-Dayton rivalry is good!

What is there to be upset about?  Its like seeing your grandma fading, and then getting upset when she finally goes.  I for one was just enjoying the ride we have been on for the last few years.  And I agree it stinks to not have the awesome BEAST to back us... but there really is nothing we can do about it.  The basketball only schools will be dumped by the wayside and we will have several options.

1. Latch onto one of the *smaller* major conferences as a group... similar to what the BEAST used to be. (Imagine a 25 team ACC basketball conference!)
2. Split up and latch on to one of the major conferences individually (Best option long term for MU).
3. Form our own basketball only conference with the BEAST remnants and a few add ins.
4. Form up with whatever shakes out from the leftovers (UL, Cincy, KU, KSU, ISU, etc.).
5. Go back to independant... personally, I hate this idea.

Personally, I think the best situation for Marquette (and other basketball schools) is to latch on to a major conference for basketball only... Though I am not sure of the best way to accomplish this... I think I posted some *ideal* conference alignment a few months back.

[NavinRJohnson]

The basketball only schools will be dumped by the wayside and we will have several options.

1. Latch onto one of the *smaller* major conferences as a group... similar to what the BEAST used to be. (Imagine a 25 team ACC basketball conference!)
2. Split up and latch on to one of the major conferences individually (Best option long term for MU).

I admit I don't follow realignment very closely, but this is just what I was thinking. Is there any reason to believe that a conference like the ACC (or God help me, the Big 10) would not expand further to increase the size of the bball conference? Would they benefit from adding a couple more football teams (UConn, WVU) and/or bringing along teams like Marquette, GU, ND, etc. for bball?

Football obviously rules, and its not close, but there is money to be made in bball as well.

[Windyplayer]

Right now, rather than pissing and moaning, I'd rather look at the positives. I'd much rather be in a conference with teams like Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's going forward

Not to mention ND, Louisville, Cincy, WVU.

This is still a really, really good basketball conference. If it stays that way, has yet to be seen.

[Hards Alumni]

[The basketball only schools will be dumped by the wayside and we will have several options.

1. Latch onto one of the *smaller* major conferences as a group... similar to what the BEAST used to be. (Imagine a 25 team ACC basketball conference!)
2. Split up and latch on to one of the major conferences individually (Best option long term for MU).



I admit I don't follow realignment very closely, but this is just what I was thinking. Is there any reason to believe that a conference like the ACC (or God help me, the Big 10) would not expand further to increase the size of the bball conference? Would they benefit from adding a couple more football teams (UConn, WVU) and/or bringing along teams like Marquette, GU, ND, etc. for bball?

Football obviously rules, and its not close, but there is money to be made in bball as well.

Right, and they could write the basketball only* schools out of the football revenue sharing.

*here is to hoping they would let all of the non-revenue sports play with them.

[KenoshaWarrior]

The schools with the most to lose are Louisville, Cinci, and South Florida.    Lousy academics and lousy football teams.   None are likely to be invited to the ACC or SEC (particularly Louisville.   Kentucky will block that, for sure)     Do they return to CUSA, or form up with the remnants of the B-12?   Probably the latter, but that league will be as unwieldly as CUSA.   

I hate this whole concept of "Lousy Academics."  Why should a schools academics have any bearing on a schools athletic program?  L-Ville, Cinci, And South Florida serve a great role in their region by providing affordable education for the areas students.  Lets not knock these schools academics

[chapman]

I hate this whole concept of "Lousy Academics."  Why should a schools academics have any bearing on a schools athletic program?  L-Ville, Cinci, And South Florida serve a great role in their region by providing affordable education for the areas students.  Lets not knock these schools academics

Tell that sob story to the Big Ten or ACC, it still won't get you an invite.  Conference affiliation is about more than athletics for a lot of conferences.  Memphis can attest to that.

[MUMac]

Tell that sob story to the Big Ten or ACC, it still won't get you an invite.  Conference affiliation is about more than athletics for a lot of conferences.  Memphis can attest to that.

I am not sure that will be the case going forward.  Originally the conferences were formed, in large part, by their academic similarities.  That landscape has changed, to a degree.  It seems to be changing even more.

[MU_LOL]

If you were to give this situation a "percentage" on how much this conference shuffling changes our RPI or Strength of Schedule, what would it be? I mean, I think that our reputation in being able to hang with teams like SU, Pitt, and UCONN (especially last year) says a little something. MU has had a good team in the past few years, how much does this situation hinder our chances of being national contenders in the long run (therefore keeping our "exposure" up)?

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

I find the people who say "Oh everything would be fine if we only had a football team," to be at best, naive, and at worst, willfully ignorant. While there is some merit to that proposition in the sense that football schools are in the drivers' seat, remember, the MU football program was ended because the team was crap, nobody went to see them, and the costs didn't justify it.

Likewise...
1.) Only two Catholic schools play football at the D1 level (Notre Dame, Boston College). Given the costs, academics, and size of alumni bases, this is not a coincidence. 85% of FBS schools are public schools with large alumni bases and access to taxpayer funds.

2.) A Marquette football team would have nowhere to play. In all seriousness, where would they play? You might say Miller Park, which would be a far-from-ideal arrangement for everyone involved. Getting a football field in there would be a tight squeeze that may result in Northwestern-at-Wrigley type setups. So most likely, that means MU needs to build a new stadium. Ask the Milwaukee MLS effort how well that went with City and County government. An MU football stadium would deliver MAYBE 10 events a year, less than half of the proposed MLS stadium. So aside from the title IX costs which have been widely discussed, you're looking at another 100-150 million for a stadium. That price figure is more or less the going rate for 20-30k capacity MLS stadiums.

3.) MU BASKETBALL has people on here complaining about attendance and only sells out the 18k Bradley Center for a few marquee games. Even Notre Dame, a rival, is not a guarantee selllout. I'm not convinced an MU football team could draw 30,000 people regularly.


So basically what you're left with is a brand new football team, with no state aid, a small alumni base, with nowhere to play, and few people to watch them. Which would pretty much put them right back where they were in 1960.

[MattyWarrior]

I wonder what the student athletes are thinking about all this!

[MUMac]

I wonder what the student athletes are thinking about all this!

I doubt many are surprised.  My son was being recruited for a non-revenue sport two years ago by several BE schools.  Each said, at the time, they did not expect the BE to remain as such in the future.  I am guessing the athletes have been tied into the ebb and flow over the past several years - moreso than any of us.