OT: US News and World Report Rankings

[bilsu]

The question I have is does not having a football team lower our ranking?

[Sir Lawrence]

Georgetown seems to be doing OK without one.   

[bilsu]

Georgetown seems to be doing OK without one.   

Georgetown is in Washington DC.

They specifically mentioned that we do not have a football team, so I wondered if that played into their rankings.

[Sir Lawrence]

Georgetown is in Washington DC.

Really?  I had no idea.  I thought I was in Baltimore when I saw the game at the Verizon Center last year.

Bilsu, Dayton has a football team.  Look at their ranking. 

[muhs03]

LOL....the peer reviews.

UF President ranks his school on par with Harvard and grades all other Florida schools low (2009).
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090616/ARTICLES/906169915

According to one former senior reporter who worked on the rankings in the early '90s: "We were roped around the neck to get us to write the serious journalistic stories in the issue, but none of us had a clue how the rankings worked." According to another former staff writer who contributed to the "Best Colleges" issue: "The rankings are completely ridiculous. But they totally pay your salary."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_9_32/ai_65160614/

[muhs03]

LOL....the peer reviews.

UF President ranks his school on par with Harvard and grades all other Florida schools low (2009).
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090616/ARTICLES/906169915

According to one former senior reporter who worked on the rankings in the early '90s: "We were roped around the neck to get us to write the serious journalistic stories in the issue, but none of us had a clue how the rankings worked." According to another former staff writer who contributed to the "Best Colleges" issue: "The rankings are completely ridiculous. But they totally pay your salary."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_9_32/ai_65160614//

Whats interesting about the peer reviews is that UF graded the entire Florida public system AS WELL AS MIAMI (a private school). Does that mean that the entire UW system grades Marquette (and vice-versa)? I guess so.

[dgies9156]

In new rankings, MU is ranked #82.  Fair/Appropriate?

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/marquette-university-3863

Time for a new PR agency. All the money Marquette inevitably spent and the best they could do was 82?

C'mon, at the end of the day, who cares? Picking a university is a multi-variable, linear regression equation that seeks optimization based on a variety inputs, including student capability, campus life, available resources and even quality of dorm food! What's important for me probably is irrevelant to a good percentage of peers.

The biggest rap on Marquette is cost/benefit. A tuition that puts Marquette among the higher cost universities in the country is a major negative to an arts and sciences major whose undergraduate program, no matter how good, amounts to a 7-11 management training program (are you listening philosophy and sociology majors). Marquette's standing in the "real" world (for all you professors, that's where most of your students will be within the next four years. The walls aren't ivy covered and most of us are not blindly liberal. It's dog eat dog out here and canine stew can be yummy!) isn't proportional to its tuition and outside of Wisconsin and maybe Northeast Illinois, nobody has heard of us except for basketball.

Imagine paying $160,000 for four years of Marquette to find out your wonderous Communications Degree will pay you $25,000 annually on a local newspaper in West Bumfork, Texas? Or 10 cents a word to blog for the Rantng Lunatick Political Blogsight! That's the reality of a Marquette education outside business and engineering (and maybe law) today.

I love Marquette dearly and my education was great, but damnation, that tuition today makes even the Red Rodent look attractive.

[Canadian Dimes]

Time for a new PR agency. All the money Marquette inevitably spent and the best they could do was 82?

C'mon, at the end of the day, who cares? Picking a university is a multi-variable, linear regression equation that seeks optimization based on a variety inputs, including student capability, campus life, available resources and even quality of dorm food! What's important for me probably is irrevelant to a good percentage of peers.

The biggest rap on Marquette is cost/benefit. A tuition that puts Marquette among the higher cost universities in the country is a major negative to an arts and sciences major whose undergraduate program, no matter how good, amounts to a 7-11 management training program (are you listening philosophy and sociology majors). Marquette's standing in the "real" world (for all you professors, that's where most of your students will be within the next four years. The walls aren't ivy covered and most of us are not blindly liberal. It's dog eat dog out here and canine stew can be yummy!) isn't proportional to its tuition and outside of Wisconsin and maybe Northeast Illinois, nobody has heard of us except for basketball.

Imagine paying $160,000 for four years of Marquette to find out your wonderous Communications Degree will pay you $25,000 annually on a local newspaper in West Bumfork, Texas? Or 10 cents a word to blog for the Rantng Lunatick Political Blogsight! That's the reality of a Marquette education outside business and engineering (and maybe law) today.

I love Marquette dearly and my education was great, but damnation, that tuition today makes even the Red Rodent look attractive.

Your degree is what you make of it...if you accept $25k and 10 cents then apparently you agree with your employer that that is all your worth.  If your not happy with it, then do something else. 

I graduated with one of those worthless Arts and Sciences degrees and made more than $25k my first year out in the early 90's and was making 6 figures by the end of the decade. 

Bottom line if you are happy to settle for something as the best you can get then dont expect something better to simply knock on your door.

[CrazyEcho]

Canadian Dimes,

I know you think that your success out of undergrad was 100% due to your heart/hustle/refusal to accept a low-paying job.  It also just so happened to coincide with one of the largest economic booms in the history of the world.  That type of economy is just not the reality for many recent graduates. 

The only reason I'm "calling you out" is because your attitude (look what I did when I graduated, why can't you do that now) is pervasive among the older generation who does not realize that times are really tough for recent college grads. 

[GGGG]

If you think the early 90s was some sort of boom time for recent graduates with liberal arts degrees, you are nuts.  I graduated at the same time Dimes did and it was smack dab in the middle of a recession.  I got very, very lucky when I landed my first real job out of Marquette.  But everything I have done since then has been due to hard work, good decisions, and the education I received at MU and elsewhere. 

There is nothing wrong with taking a $25,000 job in West Bumfork, TX - it fact, in the long run you will be better for it.  But it how you use what you learned after that which will determine your success.  And remember I work at a university...I know how hard it is on recent college graduates.  But those who are aggressive, and don't limit their search on geography, usually turn out alright.

[4everwarriors]

Back in the day I delivered newspapers in the snow in my barefeet just to put bread on the family table. Hell, now we dine regular at Old Country Buffet.

[NCAARules]

If you're looking for a job across the country, people are going to be more impressed by the Colorado School of Mines than Marquette, Miami, TCU, or the University of Missouri?  GTFO

As I'm sure Rocky can attest to, Colorado Mines has some sick academics. Kind of a niche market, but very impressive school.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Where have you seen that published?

Go down the list and count the Catholic schools as they appear.

1.) Notre Dame (#19)
2.) Georgetown (#22)
3.) Boston College (#31)
4.) Fordham (#53)
5.) MARQUETTE (#82)
6.) Saint Louis (#90)

Take campus journalism for what it's worth, but when MU passed SLU 2 or 3 years ago, the SLU paper had a whole feature story on how they weren't in the Top 5 Catholic universities anymore.

[dgies9156]

I graduated with one of those worthless Arts and Sciences degrees and made more than $25k my first year out in the early 90's and was making 6 figures by the end of the decade. 

Bottom line if you are happy to settle for something as the best you can get then dont expect something better to simply knock on your door.

Hey dimes, I'm only questioning the value for the dollar of a Marquette education today. I went there in the 1970s and gained a Journalism degree. It was a different world then and I was able to eat on a journalism salary. But the pay for liberal arts graduates doesn't justify the cost, especially when the Red Rodent over in Madison offers the same degree with at least as much visibility for half the price.

For the record, I was a journalist for many years before going back to school and getting an MBA. It was the MBA and the mentor in one of my employers who led me to the senior management position in an investment bank I have today.

I've spoken to Father Wild about this subject in the past and the only answer I got was "we deal off the card" to attract good students and that most of our strudents are on financial aide. Which tells me Marquette has adopted the healthcare financial model -- let a third party pay for it and damnthe consequences of higher tuition.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Imagine paying $160,000 for four years of Marquette to find out your wonderous Communications Degree will pay you $25,000 annually on a local newspaper in West Bumfork, Texas? Or 10 cents a word to blog for the Rantng Lunatick Political Blogsight! That's the reality of a Marquette education outside business and engineering (and maybe law) today.

I love Marquette dearly and my education was great, but damnation, that tuition today makes even the Red Rodent look attractive.

      "I think everyone should go to college and get a degree and then spend six months as a bartender and six months as a cabdriver. Then they would really be educated."

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I've spoken to Father Wild about this subject in the past and the only answer I got was "we deal off the card" to attract good students and that most of our strudents are on financial aide. Which tells me Marquette has adopted the healthcare financial model -- let a third party pay for it and damnthe consequences of higher tuition.

What the liberal arts students don't realize is that their tuition is going to fund the sciences and business programs. If you assume that there is a standard ratio of professors for students in a major, there is a lot higher margin with a history major (whose average prof is making $40k) compared with an accounting major (whose average prof is probably making $160k). Colleges "need" those psych and english lit students to pay for the business profs.

[Hards Alumni]

Hey dimes, I'm only questioning the value for the dollar of a Marquette education today. I went there in the 1970s and gained a Journalism degree. It was a different world then and I was able to eat on a journalism salary. But the pay for liberal arts graduates doesn't justify the cost, especially when the Red Rodent over in Madison offers the same degree with at least as much visibility for half the price.

For the record, I was a journalist for many years before going back to school and getting an MBA. It was the MBA and the mentor in one of my employers who led me to the senior management position in an investment bank I have today.

I've spoken to Father Wild about this subject in the past and the only answer I got was "we deal off the card" to attract good students and that most of our strudents are on financial aide. Which tells me Marquette has adopted the healthcare financial model -- let a third party pay for it and damnthe consequences of higher tuition.

Drop the political schtik, it sort of ruins the rest of your point.

[StillAWarrior]

Drop the political schtik, it sort of ruins the rest of your point.

I'm not sure he was making a political point.  Healthcare has been a third party pay system for many years, and I think it's widely accepted (by those in both parties) that this is one of the reasons for the high cost:  the actual consumer isn't paying the bill, so there isn't as much pressure to keep costs down.  This is the problem that exists and is not so much a commentary on the competing views on how to fix the problem.

The same problem exists in higher education.  The way financial aid works in many cases is that the family pays what it can "afford" and some other party pays the rest (either government, loans, alumni who donate, etc.).  Thus, many of he consumers of education don't complain as much as the would if they were paying the whole bill.  If a family is going to pay $25K no matter what, the difference between $41K and $44K isn't terribly significant.

[GGGG]

I've spoken to Father Wild about this subject in the past and the only answer I got was "we deal off the card" to attract good students and that most of our strudents are on financial aide. Which tells me Marquette has adopted the healthcare financial model -- let a third party pay for it and damnthe consequences of higher tuition.

It is the typical private school model.  They try to figure out your price point.  For the top level students, they will give large scholarships.  For the ones below, they will offer less. 

Frankly I am hard pressed to justify any private school at the "list" price.  It is the discount that matters.  (And yes they do it this way to maximize federal financial aid.)  I have said this before here, but they essentially get the rich, dumb kids to pay the scholarships for the poor, smart ones.

[Hards Alumni]

I'm not sure he was making a political point.  Healthcare has been a third party pay system for many years, and I think it's widely accepted (by those in both parties) that this is one of the reasons for the high cost:  the actual consumer isn't paying the bill, so there isn't as much pressure to keep costs down.  This is the problem that exists and is not so much a commentary on the competing views on how to fix the problem.

The same problem exists in higher education.  The way financial aid works in many cases is that the family pays what it can "afford" and some other party pays the rest (either government, loans, alumni who donate, etc.).  Thus, many of he consumers of education don't complain as much as the would if they were paying the whole bill.  If a family is going to pay $25K no matter what, the difference between $41K and $44K isn't terribly significant.

I understand.  I guess the previous post was the one I had the problem with and I should have quoted that one instead. 

[LAZER]

Go down the list and count the Catholic schools as they appear.

1.) Notre Dame (#19)
2.) Georgetown (#22)
3.) Boston College (#31)
4.) Fordham (#53)
5.) MARQUETTE (#82)
6.) Saint Louis (#90)

Take campus journalism for what it's worth, but when MU passed SLU 2 or 3 years ago, the SLU paper had a whole feature story on how they weren't in the Top 5 Catholic universities anymore.

There a lot of Catholic schools that aren't on this list, mostly smaller oens, that would probably sneak in in front of MU.  Maybe not by the US News rankings, but I don't think we're top 5 yet.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It is the typical private school model.  They try to figure out your price point.  For the top level students, they will give large scholarships.  For the ones below, they will offer less. 

Frankly I am hard pressed to justify any private school at the "list" price.  It is the discount that matters.  (And yes they do it this way to maximize federal financial aid.)  I have said this before here, but they essentially get the rich, dumb kids to pay the scholarships for the po\or, smart ones.

It will be interesting to see how the private school model changes in the future.

The public school model is subsidized by the taxpayer. The private school model is subsidized by wealthy alumni and rich dumb kids as you say.

An article here from a BC Alum who asks some interesting questions about the current college spending model.

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/is_college_over/

Personally, I loved my 4 years of school and I needed it as part of my maturation process. However, I'd be hard pressed to say that it was truly "worth it".

$80k cash (the difference in tuition), and a 4 year degree from a local public college will give you a hell of a jumpstart on life compared to going to MU and paying rack rate.

[rocky_warrior]

As I'm sure Rocky can attest to, Colorado Mines has some sick academics. Kind of a niche market, but very impressive school.

Indeed, I almost commented on the previous post.  If the School of Mines has a degree that you're looking for, it is a very well respected institution.  In fact, had I know about it when I as applying for engineering schools, I probably would have given it a serious look (and location is good too!).

[GGGG]

It will be interesting to see how the private school model changes in the future.

The public school model is subsidized by the taxpayer. The private school model is subsidized by wealthy alumni and rich dumb kids as you say.

Not much any longer.  The UW System schools only get about 15% of their revenue from the taxpayers of the state of Wisconsin.  

Public universities actually want to move toward the private school model.  It used to be that the State of Wisconsin disallowed the use of taxpayer or tuition dollars to be used for financial aid...that was made legal in the last budget cycle.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Here's the full list

1.) Notre Dame (#19)
2.) Georgetown (#22)
3.) Boston College (#31)
4.) Fordham (#53)
5.) MARQUETTE (#82)
6.) Saint Louis (#90)
7.) Dayton (#101)
8.) University of St. Thomas (#115)
9.) Loyola University Chicago (#119)
9.) Catholic University of America (#119)
9.) San Francisco (#119)
12.) DePaul (#132)
12.) Seton Hall (#132)
14.) St. John's (#152)

IMHO, the most notable omissions from this list are probably Villanova, Holy Cross, Xavier, Providence, St. Mary's, and Gonzaga, but some of them are included on other lists (regional schools, liberal arts colleges). The rankings above are for national universities. "Schools in the National Universities category, such as the University of Pennsylvania and Duke University, offer a full range of undergraduate majors, master's, and doctoral degrees. These colleges also are committed to producing ground breaking research."

As far as how we stack up with our Conference mates, the Big East Conference Nationally ranks
1.) Notre Dame (#19)
2.) Georgetown (#22)
3.) UConn (#58)
3.) Pitt (#58)
5.) Syracuse (#62)
6.) Rutgers (#68)
7.) MARQUETTE (#82)
8.) TCU (#97)
9.) DePaul (#132)
9.) Seton Hall (#132)
11.) Cincinnati (#143)
12.) St. John's (#152)
13.) Louisville (#164)
13.) West Virginia (#164)
15.) South Florida (#181)
Not listed: Providence, Villanova