1 year 1 month away from seeing where we stand...

[brewcity77]

Do they share anything today?  I was under the impression that Marquette (and the other non-FB schools) get none of the Big East football revenue (TV, bowl payouts, etc), but the FB schools share in the basketball revenue with everyone else.

That seems like a pretty sweet deal to me... one that you'd have to be a complete idiot to walk away from.

They don't share anything with us today from football. But I think they want to keep all the revenues, football and basketball, for themselves. If you had a 12-team conference with Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Connecticut, TCU, USF, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Louisville, and the Big East dream of Kansas, Kansas State, and Missouri, they would still likely get 6-8 bids per year and not need the basketball only schools to be one of the top basketball conferences in the country. They'd get a great TV deal for basketball without us, and all revenues could be shared equally from both football and basketball.

I'm just not sure how much the football schools like the idea of a 20-team split for basketball. I have to imagine the total revenue ESPN would pay for a basketball package to a conference with the 12 aforementioned teams wouldn't be that much bigger than what they'd pay for a 20-team Big East, certainly not on a per-team basis.

All I'm really saying is anyone who thinks we are 100% secure as a member of the Big East going forward is ludicrous.

[dgies9156]

Umm, Brew, I love you man, but nope... I just think you're one of these "woe is me Marquette fans" that have an inferiority complex. Did you go to MU when Bob Dukiet was head coach? I thought so!!!!

Here's my rebuttal and we can do a Shana and Jim "Shana you ignorant slut" point/counterpoint anytime you want! Just ask!

Because the football schools don't want to share anything. The only place we bring something to the table is on the court. But that can be replaced. Maryland has a solid basketball program and a state football program. Boston College, similar situation. It's not just what we offer, but if there are other options that offer more. Our NCAA streak is great, but one Sweet 16 since we joined the Big East doesn't exactly make us must-have.

Umm, Brew you miss the point. Sure the football schools want more. I understand, but I also understand that adding one flash-in-the-pan to a whole bunch of schools that never were (except Pitt and West Virginia) doesn't suddenly make the Big East a relevant football conference. Somebody's smoking the evil weed if they think so. Otherwise, why didn't Nebraska join the Big East? Or Notre Dame for that matter. There's been a lot of press about ND rejecting the Big Ten, but nothing about ND ever rejecting the Big East. Kind of like asking Notre Dame to join a bunch of Division 1-AA football powers is a waste of good oxygen. If Louisville, Cincinnati, Syracuse, UConn, TCU and Rutgers ever think they will be serious, serial contenders for the BCS Championship, I've got a bridge over Jones Island in Milwaukee that I can sell really cheap! These guys are basketball powers -- PERIOD. They know it and if they dissolve the best thing going for themselves and their universities over some bizzare notion that they can become NCAA/BCS National Championship Contenders, they're nuts.

Incredibly ignorant post. Syracuse brings the NYC market as well. Connecticut ties in to much of the East Coast. Pittsburgh I'll grant, but West Virginia doesn't just bring Morgantown, as a state school they bring the entire state. Safe to say Marshall doesn't draw much away from them. And all of them are football schools. We bring Milwaukee, but not even the bulk of the market. Marquette may be the city school but plays second fiddle to UW even within Milwaukee.

And here I thought you liked me Brew. Did you sneak out and play kickball during fifth grade geography class? It's about 250 miles from Syracuse University to New York City. That's like saying we get the Detroit, Chicago or Minneapolis market because we're located in downtown Milwaukee. Perhaps you mean that Syracuse plays and recruits in New York City. By that measure, Marquette would have owned the place when Al was head coach. We did well, but we did not own it. And for the record, most of the ACC recruits in New York too, as does local flavors St. John's, Seton Hall and Rutgers not to mention UConn. Brew, ole buddy, what you're buying with Syracuse is the Syracuse/Central New Yoirk ADI. Yeah, I know there are a lot of Syracuse grads in New York, but so are there a lot of other great basketball school grads too. Syracuse DOES NOT own New York, nor does UConn. They are attractive because they play well -- the same way we will be when we again become a Top 10 team. Repeat after me, Brew -- "Syracuse does not own New York"

As to West Virginia, I'm sure every demographer in America is racing to be in West Virginia. Maybe you have been listening to way too much John Denver, but West Virginia aint almost heaven, as far as sports demographics go. Thank God we at least agree on Pittsburgh.

How is it that everyone is forgetting TCU is a Big East team next year? So what, a team that makes the BCS out of the Mountain West isn't legitimate? If they can add three solid teams they still wouldn't be on par with the SEC or Big Ten, but they'd certainly be up there with the ACC and Pac-12 as second tier leagues. And at the end of the day, there's more money in football than basketball. I hope it doesn't come to a division, but I have to imagine that the football schools are already looking at their options.

For these schools? Are we talking revenue or operating profit? Brew, don't know what your major was, but I would suggest that someone take a close look at football EBITDA for non-contending teams in marginal conferences. You might be right, there's more revenue, but I'll betca my used game stub from last year's Cincinnati game that very few of these so-called football powers are EBITDA positive, with or without more revenue.

I think that it's mostly down to the new AD. As you mention, there are numerous other solid teams out there, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's...I think we could coddle together a solid 10-12 team league that would be essentially an upgraded version of the old C-USA. But it's important that administration be prepared for the possibility of the league splitting, because there's likely at least a grain of truth in the potential split.

And while we're at it, let's prepare for snowstorms in August. Both have about the same chance of happening, given rational behavior.

Thanks Brew and until next time.........

[muhs03]

Do they share anything today?  I was under the impression that Marquette (and the other non-FB schools) get none of the Big East football revenue (TV, bowl payouts, etc), but the FB schools share in the basketball revenue with everyone else.

That seems like a pretty sweet deal to me... one that you'd have to be a complete idiot to walk away from.

Yeah, its a nice deal NOW. However, TCU will provide a huge source of revenue for the football schools while watering down the pot for the bball schools (unless, of course, you think TCU will make the tourney regularly and win a couple of games every year). What if the conference added UCF, ECU, Houston, BYU etc..? Those are all schools that will water down the bball payout. The other interesting debate when a new deal is inked is what is the value of bball and football? Of course the fball schools are going to say their product drove the deal terms higher. Bball schools will say otherwise. Both sides will try to marginalize each other but Im guessing fball wins out. Imagine being an AD and you go from $6M per year to $16M per year. That's a lot of money to spread around your department and will lead to stronger programs at the fball schools (in all sports). It will widen the gap (or potentially create a gap if you dont think there is one now in the BE).

[brewcity77]

Umm, Brew, I love you man, but nope... I just think you're one of these "woe is me Marquette fans" that have an inferiority complex. Did you go to MU when Bob Dukiet was head coach? I thought so!!!!

Nope. I was there from 2002-2004.

Here's my rebuttal and we can do a Shana and Jim "Shana you ignorant slut" point/counterpoint anytime you want! Just ask!

Umm, Brew you miss the point. Sure the football schools want more. I understand, but I also understand that adding one flash-in-the-pan to a whole bunch of schools that never were (except Pitt and West Virginia) doesn't suddenly make the Big East a relevant football conference. Somebody's smoking the evil weed if they think so. Otherwise, why didn't Nebraska join the Big East? Or Notre Dame for that matter. There's been a lot of press about ND rejecting the Big Ten, but nothing about ND ever rejecting the Big East. Kind of like asking Notre Dame to join a bunch of Division 1-AA football powers is a waste of good oxygen. If Louisville, Cincinnati, Syracuse, UConn, TCU and Rutgers ever think they will be serious, serial contenders for the BCS Championship, I've got a bridge over Jones Island in Milwaukee that I can sell really cheap! These guys are basketball powers -- PERIOD. They know it and if they dissolve the best thing going for themselves and their universities over some bizzare notion that they can become NCAA/BCS National Championship Contenders, they're nuts.

Syracuse used to be a perennial top-25. UConn and Rutgers are on the up. TCU and Cincy have both been ranked in the top-5 in recent years. I'm not saying they are there yet, but if they add Kansas, Kansas State, and Missouri, those are three more decent programs. All it would take for a team to make the BCS title game is an undefeated season (TCU is capable) and a team from the Big Ten or SEC to slip up (leaving an opening). Again, they aren't there now, but if a team can run the table in any BCS conference, they'll be in the mix for the title. TCU realizes that, which is why they are coming. I would say that if TCU has solid recruiting classes over the next two years, they will be a legitimate national title contender in 2012.

And here I thought you liked me Brew. Did you sneak out and play kickball during fifth grade geography class? It's about 250 miles from Syracuse University to New York City. That's like saying we get the Detroit, Chicago or Minneapolis market because we're located in downtown Milwaukee. Perhaps you mean that Syracuse plays and recruits in New York City. By that measure, Marquette would have owned the place when Al was head coach. We did well, but we did not own it. And for the record, most of the ACC recruits in New York too, as does local flavors St. John's, Seton Hall and Rutgers not to mention UConn. Brew, ole buddy, what you're buying with Syracuse is the Syracuse/Central New Yoirk ADI. Yeah, I know there are a lot of Syracuse grads in New York, but so are there a lot of other great basketball school grads too. Syracuse DOES NOT own New York, nor does UConn. They are attractive because they play well -- the same way we will be when we again become a Top 10 team. Repeat after me, Brew -- "Syracuse does not own New York"

Hey, it's nothing personal, it's just ignorant. Syracuse is the only game in town when it comes to major college football in the state of New York. Hence, Syracuse football owns New York City. What, you really think Rutgers is the big dog there? Why else would they be reaffirming their connections to Yankee Stadium? You go on about basketball, but in this argument, basketball doesn't matter. Football is where the cash is, which is why Syracuse is a linchpin to the future of the Big East as a football conference.

As to West Virginia, I'm sure every demographer in America is racing to be in West Virginia. Maybe you have been listening to way too much John Denver, but West Virginia aint almost heaven, as far as sports demographics go. Thank God we at least agree on Pittsburgh.

WVU was very close to playing for a national title just a few years ago. It wouldn't take much to get them back there in this conference. State schools have value. Just look at the makeup of the SEC and Big 10 and you can see why they are so profitable. Football and state schools. Don't underestimate how important West Virginia is. Sure, as a state it may be a pit of despair, but it's still valuable.

For these schools? Are we talking revenue or operating profit? Brew, don't know what your major was, but I would suggest that someone take a close look at football EBITDA for non-contending teams in marginal conferences. You might be right, there's more revenue, but I'll betca my used game stub from last year's Cincinnati game that very few of these so-called football powers are EBITDA positive, with or without more revenue.

But the golden ticket is the BCS. The championship game alone brings with it an $18,000,000 payout. If you manage to win that and one of the other BCS games the conference will take in well over $30,000,000. While it can be detrimental to the teams that get there because of how much it costs to go, two BCS wins would easily make both participants profitable, and the teams that didn't go would all be in line for huge windfalls for games they didn't even play in. They want us all to think they are hard for cash, but if it was such a bad thing, why would everyone be pursuing it so hard? They're definitely massaging the books.

And while we're at it, let's prepare for snowstorms in August. Both have about the same chance of happening, given rational behavior.

Thanks Brew and until next time.........

So you're saying the likelihood of snowstorms in August = the likelihood of the BCS splitting? Nothing personal, but that's lunacy. No way is the conference reshuffling all said and done. Just remember this...as hard as you criticize the Big East football teams is just as hard as they would defend themselves. UConn and Rutgers fans who have seen teams either reach or get close to Big East games in recent years are probably convinced that they don't need to improve much to have a shot at actually winning one of those games. Teams like Pitt and WVU are probably convinced that 2-3 years of solid turnaround would have them contending for a title. TCU fans are probably already looking into buying tickets for the 2013 BCS Championship Game. And both Louisville and Cincinnati have been top-10 teams in the past decade, optimistic fans (and ADs) will always assume they are closer to getting back than reality might actually be.

Consider this...we are coming off our only Sweet 16 since joining the Big East and plenty of Marquette fans think we could be in for an Elite 8 or even Final Four type year. I'm not the only one touting DJO as a 1st or 2nd team All American, and I saw someone today say that should be the expectation. Do you think fans in the rest of the country see our program like that? Probably not. We may be wrong and they may be right, but that doesn't stop us from setting our expectations and goals higher than the rest of the country will. Every fanbase will do that, which is why these Big East football teams will see the silver lining of competing for the BCS title in a few years, even if people from a non-football school in Milwaukee don't believe it's possible.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Do they share anything today?  I was under the impression that Marquette (and the other non-FB schools) get none of the Big East football revenue (TV, bowl payouts, etc), but the FB schools share in the basketball revenue with everyone else.

That seems like a pretty sweet deal to me... one that you'd have to be a complete idiot to walk away from.

That is correct, MU doesn't get anything out of football now. Football and basketball tv deals are different.

[leever]

very few of these so-called football powers are EBITDA positive, with or without more revenue.

First the lawyers, now the accountants.

What's next?

[GGGG]

That is correct, MU doesn't get anything out of football now. Football and basketball tv deals are different.

Actually, that may or may not be true.  From the Courant article linked above:

"The Big East has never divulged how its money is split. It has been speculated 60 percent is divided among all the members and 40 percent among the football schools. Right now, that would give the basketball schools $4.6 million and football schools about $10.3 million. By contrast, the SEC, Big Ten and Pac-12 schools get about $21 million a year."

[brewcity77]

Actually, that may or may not be true.  From the Courant article linked above:

"The Big East has never divulged how its money is split. It has been speculated 60 percent is divided among all the members and 40 percent among the football schools. Right now, that would give the basketball schools $4.6 million and football schools about $10.3 million. By contrast, the SEC, Big Ten and Pac-12 schools get about $21 million a year."

Those two numbers are exactly why the football schools will at least consider splitting off. If they can still produce a 6-bid basketball league and maintain BCS membership with improved chances of actually winning, they'll likely see at least $14 million per year. And 2-3 contracts down the road, they could very well be on par financially with those other three conferences. Within a decade they could double their incoming pool of money.

[GGGG]

I agree brew...and it also stops the line of thinking that the fball and bball deals are seperate and the MU doesn't share in the football money.  If the football schools think their share can increase without the bball schools, they could decide to bolt.

But I disgree fundamentally with your thinking that they could approach the SEC, B10 and P12 $$$ wise.  Those conferences are made up mostly of large public universities with enormous, passionate fan bases.  The only BE school that remotely fits that description is WVU, and they are such a small state that I am not sure it matters.

[brewcity77]

I agree brew...and it also stops the line of thinking that the fball and bball deals are seperate and the MU doesn't share in the football money.  If the football schools think their share can increase without the bball schools, they could decide to bolt.

But I disgree fundamentally with your thinking that they could approach the SEC, B10 and P12 $$$ wise.  Those conferences are made up mostly of large public universities with enormous, passionate fan bases.  The only BE school that remotely fits that description is WVU, and they are such a small state that I am not sure it matters.

I think that's why they'd love to go after Kansas and Missouri. Wouldn't surprise me if the Big East tried to nab A&M too, especially if the move to the SEC didn't come through. There's major money-makers out there and most of the Big 12 schools would fit the bill.

They may not reach that level, you're right, but I do think a 50% increase is easily plausible. And that's a lot of money.

[muhs03]

Actually, that may or may not be true.  From the Courant article linked above:

"The Big East has never divulged how its money is split. It has been speculated 60 percent is divided among all the members and 40 percent among the football schools. Right now, that would give the basketball schools $4.6 million and football schools about $10.3 million. By contrast, the SEC, Big Ten and Pac-12 schools get about $21 million a year."

Yeah, that figure seems about right. It has been speculated that football is worth between 6-7M per year for each school. The new contract will easily beat the ACC's pay-out per school which should squash rumors of BE teams leaving for the ACC since the ACC is locked into their new deal for the next 10 years. As I said, the next issue will be how that money gets split internally. The football teams will win that debate as Marinatto now understands (finally) that football drives the bus. In fact, I would be surprised if there was more than a marginal increase per bball school when the money gets divided. The BE ignored fball for too long and they need to play catch-up...and they needs the money to do that.

[bilsu]

What would really hurt MU is if the Big East basketball TV contract would be for the same amount with MU & DePaul and without MU & DePaul. Dividing the same dollars over two less teams with make a significant difference to the remaining schools.

[muhs03]

What would really hurt MU is if the Big East basketball TV contract would be for the same amount with MU & DePaul and without MU & DePaul. Dividing the same dollars over two less teams with make a significant difference to the remaining schools.

From what I have read, Marinatto is pursiung a deal that is not divided between football and bball schools. In other words, the deal will be based on the valuation of the total BE product offering; he will not advertise each sport individually to the bidders. Thus, it will be up to the conference big heads to figure out how to divide the pie....which is why I believe fball schools will get a far bigger piece since they are holding all the chips now. Remember the tough stance the bball schools took when they said they would split if there was more expansion? You dont hear that anymore. The tables have turned and the fball schools hold the chips which is why, IMO, Marinatto is starting to sound like a football guy instead of a bball guy. Unfortunately, his comment about hosting a championship game around New Year's Day made him sound like the dumbest, most uneducated college football fan in the country....and HE'S THE COMMISSIONER???? LOL.

[bilsu]

From what I have read, Marinatto is pursiung a deal that is not divided between football and bball schools. In other words, the deal will be based on the valuation of the total BE product offering; he will not advertise each sport individually to the bidders. Thus, it will be up to the conference big heads to figure out how to divide the pie....which is why I believe fball schools will get a far bigger piece since they are holding all the chips now. Remember the tough stance the bball schools took when they said they would split if there was more expansion? You dont hear that anymore. The tables have turned and the fball schools hold the chips which is why, IMO, Marinatto is starting to sound like a football guy instead of a bball guy. Unfortunately, his comment about hosting a championship game around New Year's Day made him sound like the dumbest, most uneducated college football fan in the country....and HE'S THE COMMISSIONER???? LOL.

It may sound dumb, but it seems to me the some of the bowl games are later in January than they used to be. The more conferences that have championship games the greater chance that bowl games get pushed further back. He may know more than you.

[muhs03]

It may sound dumb, but it seems to me the some of the bowl games are later in January than they used to be. The more conferences that have championship games the greater chance that bowl games get pushed further back. He may know more than you.

Fine. I'll go out on a limb and say Marinatto doesnt know more than Slive, Delaney, Beebe or Scott. So there you go. The last two expansion candidates for the B10 were Nebraska and Penn State. Ex-TCU, the last two expansion programs for the BE were MU and DePaul. And that is the end of the debate (not that I dont love being affiliated with the BE....it just goes to show that the leadership is just a tad bit....dumb?). And thank god they are or we wouldnt be where we are now. No one is trying to steal bball-only schools from the BE.

[brewcity77]

Fine. I'll go out on a limb and say Marinatto doesnt know more than Slive, Delaney, Beebe or Scott. So there you go. The last two expansion candidates for the B10 were Nebraska and Penn State. Ex-TCU, the last two expansion programs for the BE were MU and DePaul. And that is the end of the debate (not that I dont love being affiliated with the BE....it just goes to show that the leadership is just a tad bit....dumb?). And thank god they are or we wouldnt be where we are now. No one is trying to steal bball-only schools from the BE.

Too bad...I'd love to feel we have the options that the high-level football schools do.

[muhs03]

Too bad...I'd love to feel we have the options that the high-level football schools do.

No worries. That's why we are starting a LAX program!!!!      Not that I dont love the move (because I DO!), but that affiliation is also a mess. The ACC  is 50X better than the BE because they have stronger programs top to bottom and NCAA tourney seeding is based almost exclusively upon RPI. So, the ACC faux conference plays each other a bunch of times and they all have strong RPI's and healthy seedings for the tourney. That BS undermines the healthy expansion efforts of the BE. You think SU is happy about playing MU in the future? They have a ton of history in the sport and every time a BE school adds LAX, they have to drop a rivalry...not just a rivalry, but one that is close by and doesnt incur high travel costs. I believe SU will be dropping Albany when we join. Thats a bus ride vs. a plane ride and we are talking about a revenue non-starter sport. Hopefully, we build a program at the pace ND built theirs.

[dgies9156]

Too bad...I'd love to feel we have the options that the high-level football schools do.

Hey Brew, should we re-start the Warrior football program? Maybe we could recruit with Wisconsin, make the BCS and claim our $18 million. In time, Wisconsinites would equate us with the Packers, the Big East would keep us and we'd become Chicago's real college football power.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Notre Dame, Michigan, Illinois, Purdue, Iowa, Northwestern (sort of... sorry Fitz) and a host of other schools that recruit and build here. Temporary insanity, I guess.

Maybe I do sound like a financial wiz, but I can't believe that even TCU, Pitt and West Virginia can consistently compete on a Division 1, BCS level year in and year out. Nobody in the Big East has in years and divorcing themselves from basketball won't change things. Basketball made the Big East.

Big East football is on par with the Ohio Valley conference on a consistent, year-in, year out basis. The University of Tennessee, even with their current enforcement problems, could regularly wallop anyone in Big East. Hell, Vanderbilt's football team probably could.

Brew, you're probably too young to remember something called Allegis. It's the disaster that happened when United Airlines diversified into hotels and car rentals. The Big East is the same. For God's sake, stick to what you do best and don't try to be an SEC wanna be

[brewcity77]

Whether it's the right decision for the football programs is a whole other discussion, however. Our vested interest is in what they will do. If they convince themselves they'll get a comparable TV deal for basketball with only 12 schools and can compete for BCS wins while taking home $4-5 million more each, they'll do it. Whether we believe they can do it or not doesn't matter. If they think they can, they'll try to leave us behind.

[GGGG]

Brew, you're probably too young to remember something called Allegis. It's the disaster that happened when United Airlines diversified into hotels and car rentals. The Big East is the same. For God's sake, stick to what you do best and don't try to be an SEC wanna be

I don't think they are trying to be an SEC wannabe.  They just want more $$$.  And there is way more $$$ in football than there is in basketball.

[Benny B]

A lot of perspectives and information here... enough to make your mind spin.

The recurring theme here is that it's all about the money.  If that's the case, I'm sure that if dismissed - voluntarily or otherwise - from the Big East, MU will land on its feet somewhere in a very favorable position somewhere.

After all, even assuming MU has no "TV value" whatsoever... what major conference wouldn't want the $2.5-3 million annually that MU basketball (via it's tournament shares) bring to the table?  Heck... what major conference wouldn't be salivating at the opportunity to add MU, Georgetown and ND basketball just to get their hands on the $7-8M/year in added tourney revenue alone?