[Cracked Sidewalks] Marquette's PR Nightmare

[mu_hilltopper]

5 words: Our Way or the Highway?

Actually, it's more like this:  Our way, or we'll ask you to change your behavior, you'll sulk about it, it'll be OK for a while, then not, we'll warn you again, repeat that about a dozen times, then we'll threaten you with a ban and it'll be OK for a while, we'll beg you to put the other parties on "ignore" .. then after a couple more years, we'll tell you we'll really do it.  Finally .. you're done.

That's how Chicos, et. al., survived for so long.  He/they do often bring a lot of info and insight, but with it, a lot of nit-picking, irritation, and unhappiness. 

Will there be fewer posts/less content on Scoop?    Yep. 

Will there be less vitriol, bitterness, and angst?  Yep.

I don't know what the net/net is, but we'll survive. 

[🏀]

5 words: Our Way or the Highway?

Actually, it's more like this:  Our way, or we'll ask you to change your behavior, you'll sulk about it, it'll be OK for a while, then not, we'll warn you again, repeat that about a dozen times, then we'll threaten you with a ban and it'll be OK for a while, we'll beg you to put the other parties on "ignore" .. then after a couple more years, we'll tell you we'll really do it.  Finally .. you're done.

That's how Chicos, et. al., survived for so long.  He/they do often bring a lot of info and insight, but with it, a lot of nit-picking, irritation, and unhappiness. 

Will there be fewer posts/less content on Scoop?    Yep. 

Will there be less vitriol, bitterness, and angst?  Yep.

I don't know what the net/net is, but we'll survive. 

I can tell you as a longtime poster that I am excited about the future of Scoop. My interest has dwindled to say the least after 85% of threads degraded itself into a Chico's machine.



That excited.

[StillAWarrior]

On a lighter note, Chicos' strangle hold on the title for most prolific poster is over.  Sultan is the current leader, but several of the regulars are in the race.

[GGGG]

On a lighter note, Chicos' strangle hold on the title for most prolific poster is over.  Sultan is the current leader,

Ugh....

[🏀]

Ugh....

So, ya know, you got that going for you

[ZiggysFryBoy]

So, ya know, you got that going for you

Which is nice.

(just padding my post totals, gotta stay on p. 1)

[🏀]

Which is nice.

(just padding my post totals, gotta stay on p. 1)

+1.

(ditto)

[Hoopaloop]

Man, I'm 100% with Evil Pat on this one. Never met Chicos, always thought it would a neat idea. But, found him to be forthright and honest. Held true to his convictions plus insightful and entertaining. Whenever this board got mundane, you could always count on JD to make a positive contribution. Hell, now that's gone and this community is worse for it.
Really don't want this board to turn into the Gestapo that exists elsewhere concerning MU basketball. Lifetime ban? Sounds serious, don't think this was. Sorry if this sounds like Chicos eulogy.

+1

The Dodds board is a disgrace because the characters that make this board go don't participate there.  They are the gustapo.  Too bad this board is going in the same direction.   It will suffer as a result of only yes men, only people that group think.  Not the Marquette I went to where we were taught to challenge the status quo and not just accept answers from authority as the end all be all. 

[Hoopaloop]

Hey Hoopaloop, which law are you referring to?

Hey Gato, do you believe the Chicago Tribune, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and other news outlets were lying?

[HouWarrior]

Good points but I don't think it even needs to be that lawyered up 

It could simply say: "The moderators reserve the right to delete posts, lock threads and ban posters. If you don't like it, start your own message board."

I agree, and think it should say just that, at least

[HouWarrior]

  Democracy doesn't work on the Internet.

I, for one, welcome our new Internet overlords.

I dont care at all over mods actions on the board, they should be and are appreciated.

The breadth of your hyperbole, however, is interesting.

Some note democratic movements took off in Tunisia and Egypt, specifically due to the internet....and the largest nondemocratic country in the world, China has been known to block and control parts of the web. 

Democracy works, it depends on free speech, and thankfully, the internet protects this well. China has learned restricting sites' access is like herding kittens, ...the words/thoughts move elsewhere. When Egypt tried restrictions...democracy talk just went over to facebook.

[HouWarrior]

I realize that as a lawyer there's a penchant for codifying, grading offenses, adding rules, etc., but if you do that people will still fight over nuance and how the rules are applied. Sometimes the answer has to be "because I said so". People are free to not participate if they find the rules too arbitrary for their tastes.

Good point...the point doesnt require all the lawyer barf verbiage...so Merritt proposed, a simpler, effective term, that  it be,

"The moderators reserve the right to delete posts, lock threads and ban posters. If you don't like it, start your own message board."

Just as they're entitled to post a rule on the nature/scope of postings, the mods are equally entitled to say what they'll do, on a violation. 

A stated rule is written, solely for the protection of the enforcers, of it...as MU has recently learned, the hard way.

[brewcity77]

So safe to say this thread is well off topic. I'd just like to weigh in with a few thoughts...

I'm going to miss Chicos. In many ways, he was a mod's dream. He created numerous topics and when things were slow, he was always the kind of person to perk up discussion. He also truly, genuinely cares about the topic at hand. His knowledge came from a legitimate experience base as he had either worked with or directly knew a number of key and influential people surrounding the Marquette basketball community. And while this might just be me, he was a good person to debate with. Chicos and I often disagreed, but it never got personal or messy. Not sure why that was when it so often did with him and others, but we got along.

I also understand the mods' position. Chicos constantly played the victim, talking about the different rules that existed for him. Even if he was 100% right, when you go out of your way to point out all the injustices, it only makes it look like you are questioning the mods' authority. Considering how much effort they have put into keeping the site going, it's tough to basically do a part-time unpaid job and be constantly criticized for how you do it. Others may be critical at times, but with CBB, it was constant. In addition, while he was someone who perked up discussion, he often pushed it in the wrong direction. I've never known a site where so many threads got dragged light years off topic, and I think many of the constant debates that spilled from thread to thread to thread, often with the same argument going on for months at a time, were at least in part his doing.

And while Chicos cared, it seemed sometimes that he did it in the wrong way. Maybe that's not entirely accurate, but he was often critical of Marquette to the point of negativity. It's important to consider your audience. When you have a heavily pro-Marquette crowd and want to make a negative argument, you need to use the carrot. Take your time and express your disappointment in a constructive way. But Chicos only had one approach, and it wasn't the carrot. Hell, it wasn't even the stick, it was the gigantic spiked steel mace.

I think Chicos did a lot of good, and I liked having him around. But at the same time, I fully understand the position of the moderators. Their "job" should be fun. It should be something where they are relaxing, enjoying discussion, and only occasionally having to step in. Posters like Chicos, the ones that draw you into the discussion more often than not, make that "job" a job, and when you aren't getting a paycheck, it takes a lot of the joy out of it. From me, he'll definitely be missed, but I'm confident the Scoop will go on.

[mu03eng]

Hey Gato, do you believe the Chicago Tribune, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and other news outlets were lying?

I think there is a difference between lying and perhaps stating inference as fact.

I haven't seen a direct quote from a MU spokesperson, administrator, etc where they say they violated the law.  In addition, I don't think it unreasonable for MU to argue that it followed the law for the past 10 years but now upon further clarity from the judicial system has determined to change the manner in which they follow the law.

From my perspective, MU had a reasonable argument that it followed the law and so never should have alluded to not following the law let alone admitted they didn't if that's what happened.

I don't think any of us are going to agree if MU followed the law or not because it appears there is ambiguity in the statement.  So there was no reason for MU to state it violated the law because its not black and white.  Its just like where I work, we don't fail tests or the test results were negative, its the test results were different than anticipated, etc.

Yes, I do think if MU frames the whole thing different the discussion is different.  If MU doesn't say it violates the law, then the folks like Sultan don't have that leg to stand on.  Certainly can argue around the issues, but there is no trump card of see MU said it did, and MU didn't have to do that.

[ringout]

I agree with this entirely.

Chicos seemed to have a real personal ax to grind with MU.  Not sure where it came from.  When I started reading this board, Chicos, (under another name I believe) added insight.  At some point, maybe after he left MU, he became a bitter old man.

He was one of my go to posters, and then, not.

[Hards Alumni]

+1

The Dodds board is a disgrace because the characters that make this board go don't participate there.  They are the gustapo.  Too bad this board is going in the same direction.   It will suffer as a result of only yes men, only people that group think.  Not the Marquette I went to where we were taught to challenge the status quo and not just accept answers from authority as the end all be all. 

This board is going in the wrong direction because one person who was warned dozens of times was banned?

Just checking.

There is a difference between challenging the status quo and being an insufferable jerk.

[Boone]

Well put, Hards. How on earth anyone could long for that boor's passive-aggressive posts against Buzz and his players, is beyond me.

[Pakuni]

+1

The Dodds board is a disgrace because the characters that make this board go don't participate there.  They are the gustapo.  Too bad this board is going in the same direction.   It will suffer as a result of only yes men, only people that group think.  Not the Marquette I went to where we were taught to challenge the status quo and not just accept answers from authority as the end all be all. 

Way to stick it to the man, Mr. Anonymnous Internet Message Board Poster.

[MerrittsMustache]

There is a difference between challenging the status quo and being an insufferable jerk.

Very well stated.

As I used to say to an arrogant, out-of-the-box-thinking peer who often got on his DRs nerves, "It's not what you're saying. It's how you're saying it."

[Lennys Tap]

+1

The Dodds board is a disgrace because the characters that make this board go don't participate there.  They are the gustapo.  Too bad this board is going in the same direction.   It will suffer as a result of only yes men, only people that group think.  Not the Marquette I went to where we were taught to challenge the status quo and not just accept answers from authority as the end all be all. 

This is total nonsense. Chicos wasn't banned because his opinions were unpopular. He freely expressed them here for years.

Many of us (myself included) have been warned and disciplined about personal attacks and insults. Chicos was a world class insulter and when he went after the Mods while also whining about being a victim it was curtains. If the cause of "freethinking MU grads" is looking for a martyr it should look elsewhere.

[ceh]

Chicos had some good information, but he made this board unreadable.

[Blackhat]

I appreciate the free flow of thought on this board and even the temperance to put up with the occassional, ok frequent, crude joke.  

Chicos has been around since I started on MU message boards about 10 years ago,   his need to be adversarial and always get the last word is certainly not adventitious.  He's been at it for quite a number of years now.

If you only read 10% of his posts and joke around with him here and there he's bearable.

[leever]

 adventitious.  


My Marquette education has failed me!  I had to look that word up.  Nice!

[Blackhat]

That's what grad school gets you I guess.  I do feel like a learned man these days boys. 

Lord only knows what that means to society.

[muwarrior69]

From brewcity 77
So safe to say this thread is well off topic.

Title should be changed to MU Scoop's PR nightmare.

From stone cold
Chicos has been around since I started on MU message boards about 10 years ago,   his need to be adversarial and always get the last word is certainly not adventitious.

Let the man at least have his last word. Though I disagree with Chicos quite often this is still America. LET THE MAN SPEAK!