Does MU need to name names?

[Hoopaloop]

My feeling has been that MU has taken the "we're sorry, we deserve our spanking, etc.," throughout this whole matter - and it has backfired.  I'd have liked for MU to vehemently defend its handling of the cases from the very start - and reiterate that both "victims" had the ability to choose to call MPD first or Public Safety - the "victims" chose Public Safety.  MU should have been very adamant that both "victims" were given the choice to take the matter to MPD.  MU should have reiterated that based on the evidence presented to Public Safety - there was no evidence of Sexual Assault.  Furthermore, it should have been reiterated that the D.A. of MKE found insufficient evidence to bring charges.  The head of DPS should be out on the front line defending his department, and how the case was handled, and that based on the evidence presented - DPS was confident beyond a shadow of a doubt that rape/sexual assault did NOT occur.

You are so out of your league on this stuff.  You would want MU to vehemently defend the school based on what?  I'm sure Boyle and the university counsel knew exactly what they were doing which is to take their lumps.  Pushing this into the public to defend MU's actions (they were VIOLATING THE DAMN LAW NERS) was a nonstarter.  Plus you would have this huge perception that they were going to bat to protect a certain class of students (student athletes and high profile ones) and not caring about others, namely female students.  I may remind you that women make up the majority of the student body at Marquette University.

This was a no win situation for Marquette because they broke the law for 10 years.  The tact you are suggesting Marquette take would be a Public Relations nightmare and almost a certain legal loser.  You have no idea what you are talking about here and it shows in your statements.  Naivete. 

[Doris Burkes Thong]

The MU administration would be wise to make a call to Ari Fleischer and see if he can come run the PR department.

[MUMac]

The MU administration would be wise to make a call to Ari Fleischer and see if he can come run the PR department.

That was well played.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No. You are wrong. Saying sorry and moving on was the best way to kill the story quickly. Rigorously defending actions that violated state law would be unwise. You think its bad now?  Just watch what would happen if they tried to portray themselves above the law.

Exactly.  You get it, Hooploop gets it as do a few others.  MU looked bad in this, but going down the ners path would have been the height of stupidity.

[jsglow]

Very good Doris.

Back to the point.  MU absolutely erred in its historic policy.  THAT was the mistake and that is what the DA said in his statement.  The investigation took place into the policy because of the high profile nature.  No names are ever coming out.  As I see it, the case is now closed.  But MU couldn't defend its prior policy; and hasn't.

Now lets talk about how awesome our 2-headed 5 monster is going to be this year.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

My feeling has been that MU has taken the "we're sorry, we deserve our spanking, etc.," throughout this whole matter - and it has backfired.  I'd have liked for MU to vehemently defend its handling of the cases from the very start - and reiterate that both "victims" had the ability to choose to call MPD first or Public Safety - the "victims" chose Public Safety.  MU should have been very adamant that both "victims" were given the choice to take the matter to MPD.  MU should have reiterated that based on the evidence presented to Public Safety - there was no evidence of Sexual Assault.  Furthermore, it should have been reiterated that the D.A. of MKE found insufficient evidence to bring charges.  The head of DPS should be out on the front line defending his department, and how the case was handled, and that based on the evidence presented - DPS was confident beyond a shadow of a doubt that rape/sexual assault did NOT occur.

MU could have been contrite and sensitive to the incident, yet said it disciplined the athletes under university policy, reprimanded the coaching staff - yet with all available evidence in such a "he said/she said" case, there was no evidence of sexual assault.  As a result, it is unfair to name the names of the parties involved, due to their being no charges filed.

Genius. Yeah, let's have the university bureaucrats come off as even holier than thou. You wonder why the UW sisterhood is able to so easily maintain stereotypes about Marquette and its alums as pompous assholes.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Ners, do you think that b!tch Stephanie Quade is making the University look good with her statement to the sobbing victim that she "pray about it"? What you seem to be asking for is that level of arrogance multiplied several times over.

We need fewer clueless, insular university bureaucrats. Not more.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ners, do you think that b!tch Stephanie Quade is making the University look good with her statement to the sobbing victim that she "pray about it"? What you seem to be asking for is that level of arrogance multiplied several times over.

We need fewer clueless, insular university bureaucrats. Not more.

A big hell yeah. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Ners, do you think that b!tch Stephanie Quade is making the University look good with her statement to the sobbing victim that she "pray about it"? What you seem to be asking for is that level of arrogance multiplied several times over.

We need fewer clueless, insular university bureaucrats. Not more.

MU's administration definitely did not handle the situation very well but I do take exception to the portion of The Trib story that attempted to paint a picture of a girl sobbing to the dean about being raped and then dean saying "Pray about it" and shooing her away. Sure, that makes for a good story if your goal is to make the university look bad, but I just find it incredibly hard to believe that the conversation went anything remotely close to that.

[NersEllenson]

Genius. Yeah, let's have the university bureaucrats come off as even holier than thou. You wonder why the UW sisterhood is able to so easily maintain stereotypes about Marquette and its alums as pompous pretty boys.

How has it panned out so far taking the contrite route?

Ners, do you think that b!tch Stephanie Quade is making the University look good with her statement to the sobbing victim that she "pray about it"? What you seem to be asking for is that level of arrogance multiplied several times over.

We need fewer clueless, insular university bureaucrats. Not more.

And so you believe everything you read?  Ever known a 19 year old, scorned girl to lie? 

MU blew it in this case because it did not defend what it did do..plain and simple.  Being apologetic has only fanned the flames that there was in fact something wrong about the way it was handled.  You get DPS out there and reiterate that based on the evidence presented at the time, we didn't feel a sexual assault occurred.  However, we informed the "victim" that she could take the matter up with MPD.  MU can say it amended its reporting responsibility policy as a result of this, but there is no reason for it to NOT defend what it did do, and get DPS out in front of the media explaining why the case was handled the way it was:  Because there was no visible evidence a rape/sexual assault occurred.

I wonder why she didn't??  (Probably because she knew that her whole story was B.S. - and DPS saw through it, and MPD probably would too.)

[GGGG]

MU blew it in this case because it did not defend what it did do..plain and simple.  Being apologetic has only fanned the flames that there was in fact something wrong about the way it was handled.

Ners, I run the PR for a large University and I can tell you without a doubt you are completely wrong.  There was no defense for what MU did because they violated the law.  You think the fans are flamed now?  Try coming off as above the law.

There was a reason the Cottingham announcement was made just before the 4th of July weekend.  Because by next week it is out of the papers, and by the time school starts no one will care any longer.

One thing I learned from one of my first bosses was "never fight a battle with an organization that buys their ink by the barrell."  That is exactly what MU would be doing by coming out swinging.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ners, I run the PR for a large University and I can tell you without a doubt you are completely wrong.  There was no defense for what MU did because they violated the law.  You think the fans are flamed now?  Try coming off as above the law.

There was a reason the Cottingham announcement was made just before the 4th of July weekend.  Because by next week it is out of the papers, and by the time school starts no one will care any longer.

One thing I learned from one of my first bosses was "never fight a battle with an organization that buys their ink by the barrell."  That is exactly what MU would be doing by coming out swinging.

+1.  For some reason my last post was deleted.  Honestly, I'd just like a coherent explanation from ners why his approach would make any sense.  Everyone here that deals with the media, or the public, etc as part of our careers says that approach is beyond ridiculous, but I'd be curious to hear a point by point rationale why we are wrong.

[SoCalwarrior]

For some reason? You are dense, man. You can't mention or reply to ners and vice versa. You knew that. There's your explanation. Bans from this point forward. Happy 4th.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

How has it panned out so far taking the contrite route?


And so you believe everything you read?  Ever known a 19 year old, scorned girl to lie? 

MU blew it in this case because it did not defend what it did do..plain and simple.  Being apologetic has only fanned the flames that there was in fact something wrong about the way it was handled.  You get DPS out there and reiterate that based on the evidence presented at the time, we didn't feel a sexual assault occurred.  However, we informed the "victim" that she could take the matter up with MPD.  MU can say it amended its reporting responsibility policy as a result of this, but there is no reason for it to NOT defend what it did do, and get DPS out in front of the media explaining why the case was handled the way it was:  Because there was no visible evidence a rape/sexual assault occurred.

I wonder why she didn't??  (Probably because she knew that her whole story was B.S. - and DPS saw through it, and MPD probably would too.)

If Marquette has taken the contrition route, it's freaking news to me. Is there a single person who was actually involved in this story who has been reprimanded? And I don't mean the players. I mean all the administration staff who did not report sexual assault cases for 10 years, and the heartless monsters like Stephanie Quade who apparently have a protocol of telling potential rape victims to "pray about it." Dude, they formed a COMMITTEE! That was Marquette's solution. WOW, I'm impressed, Fr. Wild.

I don't have a clue as to whether any Marquette athletes committed any rapes. I do know that this is the billionth time that Marquette has taken a potentially bad incident and made it several magnitudes worse due to the stupidity of the bureaucrats involved.

[mu_hilltopper]

The Stephanie Quade storyline is really amazing.

She has access to all the investigations, reports, interviews.  She has direct access to the victim AND the accused.    If you knew her, you'd know she'd never give special treatment to athletes or the ath department.  Quade's worked at MU 25+ years.  Oh, and Quade is a woman.  That's no trivial fact.  She might literally be the most sympathetic "judge" at Marquette for a case like this.

She, with complete access to the facts as presented by interviews and direct access to the accuser and accused, says to the accused, prayer may help you get over your suffering, in effect because, what we've found, (and what the Police eventually found) doesn't warrant prosecution.

Option A. She's doing what every single one of us would have done.
Option B. She's a monster, trying to protect the University over a rape victim!

[MUMac]

The Stephanie Quade storyline is really amazing.

She has access to all the investigations, reports, interviews.  She has direct access to the victim AND the accused.    If you knew her, you'd know she'd never give special treatment to athletes or the ath department.  Quade's worked at MU 25+ years.  Oh, and Quade is a woman.  That's no trivial fact.  She might literally be the most sympathetic "judge" at Marquette for a case like this.

She, with complete access to the facts as presented by interviews and direct access to the accuser and accused, says to the accused, prayer may help you get over your suffering, in effect because, what we've found, (and what the Police eventually found) doesn't warrant prosecution.

Option A. She's doing what every single one of us would have done.
Option B. She's a monster, trying to protect the University over a rape victim!

This was an excellent post.  It is true, both DPS and the DA could not pursue the accusations as made.  We have heard one side of the story.  The only criticism leveled at MU was for violating the law by not reporting.  Yet, MU, the Athletic Dept., all coaches and players are deemed guilty by some.  That some includes the press and a few known posters on this board.

[jsglow]

The Stephanie Quade storyline is really amazing.

She has access to all the investigations, reports, interviews.  She has direct access to the victim AND the accused.    If you knew her, you'd know she'd never give special treatment to athletes or the ath department.  Quade's worked at MU 25+ years.  Oh, and Quade is a woman.  That's no trivial fact.  She might literally be the most sympathetic "judge" at Marquette for a case like this.

She, with complete access to the facts as presented by interviews and direct access to the accuser and accused, says to the accused, prayer may help you get over your suffering, in effect because, what we've found, (and what the Police eventually found) doesn't warrant prosecution.

Option A. She's doing what every single one of us would have done.
Option B. She's a monster, trying to protect the University over a rape victim!

Dr. Quade has a solid and long established reputation of NOT showing favoritism to athletes and for being an outspoken advocate for women's rights.  She is a solid and highly respected Dean of Students.  That's one reason I'm skeptical of some of the comments of the alleged victim that appeared in the Tribune article.  They paint a picture that does not fit Dr. Quade at all.  And yes, I've personally known her for 30 years.

[Nukem2]

Dr. Quade has a solid and long established reputation of NOT showing favoritism to athletes and for being an outspoken advocate for women's rights.  She is a solid and highly respected Dean of Students.  That's one reason I'm skeptical of some of the comments of the alleged victim that appeared in the Tribune article.  They paint a picture that does not fit Dr. Quade at all.  And yes, I've personally known her for 30 years.

Her comments are obviously taken out of context.  Poor reporting by the Tribune.  But its what they printed and the perception of Quade is now poor....  

[GGGG]

If Marquette has taken the contrition route, it's freaking news to me. Is there a single person who was actually involved in this story who has been reprimanded? And I don't mean the players. I mean all the administration staff who did not report sexual assault cases for 10 years, and the heartless monsters like Stephanie Quade who apparently have a protocol of telling potential rape victims to "pray about it." Dude, they formed a COMMITTEE! That was Marquette's solution. WOW, I'm impressed, Fr. Wild.

The "Committee" that you are talking about is their sexual response task force that has people on-call 24/7 to counsel women (or men for that matter) who face issues like these immediately.  It is meant to pretty much be the exact opposite of a bureaucratic response.

[Lennys Tap]

The Stephanie Quade storyline is really amazing.

She has access to all the investigations, reports, interviews.  She has direct access to the victim AND the accused.    If you knew her, you'd know she'd never give special treatment to athletes or the ath department.  Quade's worked at MU 25+ years.  Oh, and Quade is a woman.  That's no trivial fact.  She might literally be the most sympathetic "judge" at Marquette for a case like this.

She, with complete access to the facts as presented by interviews and direct access to the accuser and accused, says to the accused, prayer may help you get over your suffering, in effect because, what we've found, (and what the Police eventually found) doesn't warrant prosecution.

Option A. She's doing what every single one of us would have done.
Option B. She's a monster, trying to protect the University over a rape victim!

.
Perfectly stated. Everything we know and a 25+ year record says A. Still, some will dismiss that 25+ year distinguished record with simplistic comments like "Lacrosse isn't basketball". They'll never admit that they choose B - but that's what they do when they reject A.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This was an excellent post.  It is true, both DPS and the DA could not pursue the accusations as made.  We have heard one side of the story.  The only criticism leveled at MU was for violating the law by not reporting.  Yet, MU, the Athletic Dept., all coaches and players are deemed guilty by some.  That some includes the press and a few known posters on this board.

I'd love to hear one person that deemed the players and coaches guilty.  I've seen plenty of posts, my own included, that stated the way MU handled this (so piss poorly it borders on malpractice) it leaves doubt of innocence or guilt in the air.  There is no clarity because the DA and the MPD said it was too late, stories could be corroborated, evidence changed, etc.  Those were law enforcement's words.  I think that is considerably different than saying anyone is guilty.  In fact, most of those posts state how this shameful process meant no guilt or innocence could be found, instead a situation of limbo where we'll never know.

Who are these "few known posters" that have stated these players and coaches are guilty?

[ChicosBailBonds]

.
Perfectly stated. Everything we know and a 25+ year record says A. Still, some will dismiss that 25+ year distinguished record with simplistic comments like "Lacrosse isn't basketball". They'll never admit that they choose B - but that's what they do when they reject A.

Public perception plays into these things.  It looks like a cover-up to some, and I don't think many reasonable people would deny that perception is out there and with validity, whether it's right or wrong there is no stretch to that line of thinking.  This just in...we lost the Athletic Director on the heels of all of this. This also just in, the university has had to publicly apologize at least three times over all this.  Also just in, MU has had to change it's policy as a result of all this.  If you don't think that doesn't tie in further with that perception, I can't help you.  You would have to have your head so buried in the sand to ignore the realities of what many in the community are saying about this.

As for Quade, since when did a 25+ year career mean people don't make mistakes?  Make errors in judgment?   I hope you are not suggesting that.  It happens all the time.  I'm not a big fan of some of her decisions for other reasons, going back several decades, but that's a sidebar.  She's a nice person, well respected in the university by most groups.   

Whether the answer is A, B or something  else we probably won't know for awhile, or even ever.  The perception is out there, right or wrong is that MU screwed the pooch on this.  You seem to have dug in your heels so much that you are denying that perception is not only real, I'd argue it's the dominant theory in the conversation because of how we handled it.  MU has no one to blame but themselves.

[GGGG]

Chicos, I agree that people make mistakes.  However, what really upsets me is that when someone with a respected 25 year career is dismissed as a "b1tch" and a "clueless, insular beaurocrat," when they really have no idea IF she made a mistake or not.  And even if she did make a mistake, did so with the best of intentions.

[MUMac]

I'd love to hear one person that deemed the players and coaches guilty.  I've seen plenty of posts, my own included, that stated the way MU handled this (so piss poorly it borders on malpractice) it leaves doubt of innocence or guilt in the air.  There is no clarity because the DA and the MPD said it was too late, stories could be corroborated, evidence changed, etc.  Those were law enforcement's words.  I think that is considerably different than saying anyone is guilty.  In fact, most of those posts state how this shameful process meant no guilt or innocence could be found, instead a situation of limbo where we'll never know.

Who are these "few known posters" that have stated these players and coaches are guilty?

I will research the names, once you do for your post "Anyone find it ironic that the coaches and players were reprimanded\disciplined when they didn't "do anything wrong" according to some here."  Who are these that have stated MU has done nothing wrong?

If it consoles you, I was not referring to you.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, I agree that people make mistakes.  However, what really upsets me is that when someone with a respected 25 year career is dismissed as a "b1tch" and a "clueless, insular beaurocrat," when they really have no idea IF she made a mistake or not.  And even if she did make a mistake, did so with the best of intentions.

That's a fair point.   You should read some of my private email from folks here....LOL.  Or some that aren't private.