For Those Losing Sleep Over This

[4everwarriors]

Relax, take a chill pill. Tom Crean will not be the next coach at Kentucky. It's not because he isn't interested or they won't pay him enough bread, or can't get the sheckles together for his buyout. No none of that. For some this may seem unbelievable, but, UK CAN DO BETTER THAN CREAN.
Look for them to make a run at a guy like Donovan, Self, Krueger, etc.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So then you're losing sleep over it since you want him gone...right?

 

[4everwarriors]

have bigger fish to fry. Truth is, I don't care if he stays or goes. Would just like to see us get back to Warrior basketball. That is, recruit a full complement of players (guards, forwards, and centers), recreate some offense with pressure defense, have an offensive and defensive philosophy, an lastly, avoid embarassing loses and let your performance speak for you.

[Harrison]

word!
  Why does anyone saying Crean is not God's gift to basketball mean you dont like him?  Will never understand that.  I have briefly met him , i have no idea if I would like him or not.  Crean has done a good job rebuilding the program, I personally have serious reservations, and I guarantee so would UK, that he can coach a title contending program.  The game is not intuitive for him, and that really hurts him.  It also has been said he has an eye for talent.  i would disagree with that, he has signed more duds in an eight year program especially with the turnover than is comprehendable.  And many of them had absolutely no business at MU and arguably in D1.  Menard, Berkowitz, and Lott and Kinsella (our two Seniors) to name a few.   

[MUCam]

Crean rescued this program from the abyss.

I always thought it would take 6-10 years, a lot of hard work, and a lot of luck to have this program back on the national map. Crean has them back on the map in eight years. Just five to six years ago, very people knew Marquette for anything basketball related. The ones that did know MU, knew them as "that team that was pretty good in the 70's" or "didn't Al McGuire coach there back in the day." Nowadays, every one knows MU basketball, and regardless of whether it is warranted or not, Coach Crean is repeatedly mentioned as one of the bright young coaches in NCAA basketball. You cannot expect Marquette to become a UNC or a Duke or a Kansas overnight. Just look at Izzo and MSU. They have been nearly as successful as any of the aforementioned teams over the past 10 years and, yet, most don't put them in that class. It takes time and consistency. Can MU do it? I hope so. Is Crean moving them towards it? I tend to think so. 10 years ago, a top 100 recruit going to MU was absolutely unheard of. Last year, we started 3.

Does all this mean that Crean is infallible? Absolutely not. I am not sure that Crean has learned yet to get the most out of the talent he has on his teams. I don't think he has learned the player management needed to succeed with "fringe" players, such as Amo. He needs work with some of his game management. He can gameplan efficiently when given time, but has trouble adjusting on the fly.

When you add it all up, I truly believe that Crean has earned our patience and a little bit of credit. I don't think that anyone truly believes Crean is above criticism. But let's be honest with ourselves. His biggest critics aren't simply pointing out a flaw or two, are they?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nice hyperbole Harrison.  I don't think he's God's gift and I've never seen anyone here say that.

4ever and PRN have both said they don't like him so, in fact, they don't have to say he's "god" because they've already admitted as such.

Personally, if he leaves he leaves.  I'd rather he stay for stability sake and I think finding a replacement will be a lot harder than some here are letting on.

[Big Papi]

I don't think anyone is losing any sleep over this, at least I wouldn't think so.  I am sure that we could get a decent coach and who knows maybe even a better one.  But if you think that losing Crean is a risk free endevour than you are sadly mistaken.  Right now I expect a very strong team for next year but if Crean were to leave there is a chance for us to lose some very good players as tends to be the case when coaches leave or get fired. Losing a Dom and lets say a freshmen recruit like Mbakwe(to Minnesota) certainly would make it more difficult for us next year(with Nick Williams most likely gone as well the year after).  Than again maybe with a new coach the floodgates will open up and talented big men will be fighting each other to get into MU.          

Side note: Nick Williams the junior from Alabama finished 3rd for 6A player of the year.  6A being the largest schools division.

[Nukem2]

Chicos, You are correct.  Obviously, there would be numerous qualified candidates applying if TC were to leave.  However, I think there are only a scant few that would be a good fit.  It would be hard to find someone that would give the energy to the job that TC does.  I don't think we need to get an assistant or a guy on the way down either.  In short, people need to think about what they might wish for.  Change is not always great.  In the meantime, stability is also important.  PRN and 4Ever can dislike TC all they want.  I rather suspect they are in a very distinct minority.

[Big Papi]

Chicos, You are correct.  Obviously, there would be numerous qualified candidates applying if TC were to leave.  However, I think there are only a scant few that would be a good fit.  It would be hard to find someone that would give the energy to the job that TC does.  I don't think we need to get an assistant or a guy on the way down either.  In short, people need to think about what they might wish for.  Change is not always great.  In the meantime, stability is also important.  PRN and 4Ever can dislike TC all they want.  I rather suspect they are in a very distinct minority.

You bring up a good point, with everyone's high expectations, is MU really just a stepping stone for most coaches and will we ever achieve stability/continuity.  Since some posters who dislike Crean believe Crean would have left for Illinois or Ohio St. if offered does a new better coach leave MU after 2-4 years when a bigger Big 10, ACC, PAC 10 or SEC program opens up.  Revoling door program is not a good thing.

[The Lens]

Crean rescued this program from the abyss.

 

Tom Crean was hired in 1999...here is a snapshot of that abyss that was MU Hoops prior:

1999 No Post Season
1998 NIT Quarters
1997 NCAA, Conf Tourney Champs
1996 NCAA 2nd Rnd, 4 seed, Conf Tourney Runner Up
1995 NIT Runner Up
1994 NCAA Sweet 16, Conf Champs
1993 NCAA

Yep looks likes an abyss to me.

[Pakuni]

Crean rescued this program from the abyss.

 

Tom Crean was hired in 1999...here is a snapshot of that abyss that was MU Hoops prior:

1999 No Post Season
1998 NIT Quarters
1997 NCAA, Conf Tourney Champs
1996 NCAA 2nd Rnd, 4 seed, Conf Tourney Runner Up
1995 NIT Runner Up
1994 NCAA Sweet 16, Conf Champs
1993 NCAA

Yep looks likes an abyss to me.

You're being remarkably misleading and disingenuous, and I suspect you know that.
In the years before Tom Crean arrived, the program had gone from 23 wins to 22 wins to 21 to wins to 14 wins. That last season featured a 32-point loss to Dayton and a 16-point home loss to Tulsa.
Only two, maybe three, high-caliber recruits had made it to campus the previous four years and his incoming recruiting class consisted of a kid who ultimately could not cut it at Lamar. Attendance was sinking fast, as was interest in the program. Hopes for a long-awaited athletic facility were all but non-existent.
Abyss might be a tad strong, but Marquette basketball clearly was moribund when Tom Crean arrived.

[maxpower773]

Also consider that all of that was done in conference USA and not the Big East. I think abyss is a bit much, but we are a lot better off now as a whole than we were in the years you posted about.

[The Lens]

Crean rescued this program from the abyss.

 

Tom Crean was hired in 1999...here is a snapshot of that abyss that was MU Hoops prior:

1999 No Post Season
1998 NIT Quarters
1997 NCAA, Conf Tourney Champs
1996 NCAA 2nd Rnd, 4 seed, Conf Tourney Runner Up
1995 NIT Runner Up
1994 NCAA Sweet 16, Conf Champs
1993 NCAA

Yep looks likes an abyss to me.

You're being remarkably misleading and disingenuous, and I suspect you know that.
In the years before Tom Crean arrived, the program had gone from 23 wins to 22 wins to 21 to wins to 14 wins. That last season featured a 32-point loss to Dayton and a 16-point home loss to Tulsa.
Only two, maybe three, high-caliber recruits had made it to campus the previous four years and his incoming recruiting class consisted of a kid who ultimately could not cut it at Lamar. Attendance was sinking fast, as was interest in the program. Hopes for a long-awaited athletic facility were all but non-existent.
Abyss might be a tad strong, but Marquette basketball clearly was moribund when Tom Crean arrived.

We're we trending up? No, and I never said we were, in fact my yearly recap shows that we weren't, but it was far from an abyss.  Heck look at our last four years:

2004 NIT
2005 NIT
2006 NCAA One and done
2007 NCAA One and done

Maybe to MUCam that's an abyss...

[Pakuni]

We're we trending up? No, and I never said we were, in fact my yearly recap shows that we weren't, but it was far from an abyss.  Heck look at our last four years:

2004 NIT
2005 NIT
2006 NCAA One and done
2007 NCAA One and done

Maybe to MUCam that's an abyss...

As I said, abyss was strong. But the trend was moving in that direction, not just with record and tournament appearances, but with recruiting, attendance and fan interest. We should be thankful Bill Cords had the foresight not to let it reach the abyss rather than bicker about the semantics of how bad it had truly gotten when he pulled the plug on the Deane era.

As for the more recent trend:

2005: 19-12 in CUSA
2006: 20-11 in Big East
2007: 24-10 in Big East
2008: All key players (likely) returning

Seems like an upward trend to me.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Or another way to look at it


During Crean's tenure, average attendance has topped 13,999 per year four times (including 15000+ 3 times)

Deane's tenure, topped 13999 zero times (highest year was 13258 his first year)

KO's tenure, topped 13999 one time (Sweet 16 year)

Hoops is MU's only profitable sport and if the turnstyles aren't clicking, then you're in trouble.  It was as much a financial issue as a coaching issue.  The financial numbers were trending the wrong way.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let's also not forget back then we were in the Great Midwest, then CUSA and then Big East....so those records aren't comparing apples to apples.

Let's look at the final RPI numbers for those years

RPI began in 1993-94 season

1994 RPI 17 KO

1995 RPI 80 Deane
1996 RPI 23 Deane
1997 RPI 51 Deane
1998 RPI 67 Deane
1999 RPI 129 Deane

2000 RPI 67 Crean
2001 RPI 113 Crean
2002 RPI 23 Crean
2003 RPI 10 Crean
2004 RPI 83 Crean
2005 RPI 88 Crean
2006 RPI 31 Crean
2007 RPI 22 Crean

[The Lens]

Please don't misundertand me...we are in a MUCH MUCH better place now.  I just can't handle the term abyss beng bandied about when referring to the 90's.