New Draft Express tonight keeps Jimmy F Butler #2 pick in 2nd round (Cavs)

[bamamarquettefan]

Draft Express just updated, and keeps Jimmy Butler at #2 in the 2nd round with the Cavs, though it now picks a new teammate in Kanter with the Cavs 4th pick (still Irving at No. 1, though I guess owner and rest of office disagree on the No. 1 pick).

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

Looking through the rest of this class of forwards, a few things stand out. First is how wellJimmy Butlerseems to rank in virtually every category, starting with overall offensive efficiency (6th), and continuing with turnover rate (2nd best), free throw rate (2nd) and transition scoring (2nd). If he can improve his ability to make shots with his feet set (13th, 36% FG) he will likely carve out a long career for himself considering how staunch of a defender he is.

[Markusquette]

Anyone else notice his 39" max vert statistic?  He ranks in the top 10 out of all potential draftees I believe.  Pretty impressive!

[bamamarquettefan]

On NBA tonight they featured him as one of three sleepers in the draft along with Leslie from Georgia and the underachiever from UCLA.

[NersEllenson]

I've felt for awhile this past season that Jimmy is a better NBA prospect than Lazar.  Jimmy is 2 years younger entering the draft, and a much better athlete.  Jimmy's foot speed is significantly better than Lazar's, as is his vertical (though I didn't realize it was 39 good).  No way Lazar could have defended a Tu Holloway, and even Marshon Brooks.

Jimmy seems to shoot better off the dribble than did Lazar, though both shoot more of a set shot from the 3 - edge to Lazar on being better shooter.  Just think with Jimmy's work ethic and character, he will work/will himself into being a very good shooter.  Many reports from his workouts indicated he shot the ball better than most teams expected. 

Should be a fun draft night to see where this great kid gets drafted.  I could see anywhere from 15-30..

[Hards Alumni]

I've felt for awhile this past season that Jimmy is a better NBA prospect than Lazar.  Jimmy is 2 years younger entering the draft, and a much better athlete.  Jimmy's foot speed is significantly better than Lazar's, as is his vertical (though I didn't realize it was 39 good).  No way Lazar could have defended a Tu Holloway, and even Marshon Brooks.

Jimmy seems to shoot better off the dribble than did Lazar, though both shoot more of a set shot from the 3 - edge to Lazar on being better shooter.  Just think with Jimmy's work ethic and character, he will work/will himself into being a very good shooter.  Many reports from his workouts indicated he shot the ball better than most teams expected. 

Should be a fun draft night to see where this great kid gets drafted.  I could see anywhere from 15-30..

No way he goes before 25.

[StillAWarrior]

From a purely selfish perspective, I really hope Jimmy comes to Cleveland.  He sounds like a great kid, and I'd love to have him here in town and get a chance to follow his NBA career up close.

[NersEllenson]

No way he goes before 25.

It definitely would be a surprise to see him drafted between 15-25, but I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibility...lots of things to like about JFB..and let's face it - teams aren't exactly transparent as to their draft intentions, and there are a lot of smoke screens that get sent out.

Jimmy can be as good as Wes in the NBA..

[Skatastrophy]

From a purely selfish perspective, I really hope Jimmy comes to Cleveland.  He sounds like a great kid, and I'd love to have him here in town and get a chance to follow his NBA career up close.

I would be very sad for whomever gets drafted for any professional sport to play in Ohio.

Hopefully Jimmy ends up somewhere that he has a chance of being on a team with a winning record in the next 5 years.

[GGGG]

It definitely would be a surprise to see him drafted between 15-25, but I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibility...lots of things to like about JFB..and let's face it - teams aren't exactly transparent as to their draft intentions, and there are a lot of smoke screens that get sent out.

Jimmy can be as good as Wes in the NBA..

He isn't going to be able to score like Wes IMO.  I think 15 is a little high, but I would be surprised to see him in the bottom third.  I think he would make a perfect role type player on a team that is already winning.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think Jimmy's got NBA size, and some good characteristics that fit the NBA game.

Honestly, I think his career might come down to his ability to shoot. If he can make the baseline 3pter, he'll be in the league a while. That shot is so huge for NBA SF, and they have to make it when open.

The rest of his game is in pretty good shape.

[brewcity77]

No way he goes before 25.

Why not? Honestly, I expect him to go before 25. I'd love the Bulls to take him, but don't expect him to be on the board when they pick.

[MUfan12]

I know they are way different players, but I see Jimmy being a guy like Luc Mbah a Moute in a way. Doesn't put up mind blowing numbers, but can rebound and defend well at his position. Hard to take guys like that off the floor.

I agree that he probably won't score like Wesley has.

[Hards Alumni]

Why not? Honestly, I expect him to go before 25. I'd love the Bulls to take him, but don't expect him to be on the board when they pick.

I love Jimmy as much as the next guy, but the NBA draft is almost always about potential.  My guess is that a LOT of foreign players get drafted and stashed due to the overall weak draft.  With Jimmy, you know what you are getting, and sure that could be nice... but why take a role player (no offense) when you could draft a foreign player, develop them, and bring in a potential starter a year or two down the road?

I'm sorry, I just don't see JFB going until the last quarter of the first round or later.

[Golden Avalanche]

My concern with Butler is he'll fall into that category where all the GM's love him but are betting that their colleagues won't spend a "high" pick on a guy like that so they all play poker to the hand and figure they can get him with one of their later selections thus alleviating them of the first round guarantee (see: Lazar).

This would leave him in that spot where you get to selection #48 and are praying he doesn't get selected and rather ends up like Matthews and can choose where he goes for a better situation for fear that he gets buried on a good team and, with no summer league, has little opportunity to shine.

[StillAWarrior]

I would be very sad for whomever gets drafted for any professional sport to play in Ohio.

Hopefully Jimmy ends up somewhere that he has a chance of being on a team with a winning record in the next 5 years.

While I don't really disagree with what you said (I admitted I was being selfish), I'd be willing to wager that the Cavs will have a winning record in the next five years.  Care to think of something creative?

[NersEllenson]

I love Jimmy as much as the next guy, but the NBA draft is almost always about potential.  My guess is that a LOT of foreign players get drafted and stashed due to the overall weak draft.  With Jimmy, you know what you are getting, and sure that could be nice... but why take a role player (no offense) when you could draft a foreign player, develop them, and bring in a potential starter a year or two down the road?

I'm sorry, I just don't see JFB going until the last quarter of the first round or later.

Only comment here would be that Jimmy is a very YOUNG 21 to be entering the league.  Lazar was 23.  Jimmy does have some upside...I guess do you go for an 18-19 year old Euro who has NO high-major experience, or go for a kid 2-3 years older (Jimmy) who's played well at arguable the highest level of college basketball (Big East), and has great character and comes from a program that is known to turn out over-achievers?

[RawdogDX]

No way he goes before 25.

No way Lazar goes before 32 (40, 50).

- Tons of posters last year. 

It only takes 1 team.  A GM/Owner who says: This is the guy we want.  We can trade down from 23 to 27, get practically nothing for it and risk him not being there.  Or we can just reach for him at 23. 
You're probably right, but don't say 'no way' about any 18+ spot.

[Skatastrophy]

While I don't really disagree with what you said (I admitted I was being selfish), I'd be willing to wager that the Cavs will have a winning record in the next five years.  Care to think of something creative?

As you'd likely expect, nothing comes to mind

[Hards Alumni]

Only comment here would be that Jimmy is a very YOUNG 21 to be entering the league.  Lazar was 23.  Jimmy does have some upside...I guess do you go for an 18-19 year old Euro who has NO high-major experience, or go for a kid 2-3 years older (Jimmy) who's played well at arguable the highest level of college basketball (Big East), and has great character and comes from a program that is known to turn out over-achievers?

College basketball talent does not equal pro talent.

[NersEllenson]

College basketball talent does not equal pro talent.

Obviously - but my point was a 21-year old American who has played at the highest level of college ball, is a lot lower risk than an 18 or 19 year old Euro - which you had previously pointed out (below) could hinder Jimmy's ability to get drafted in the 1st round...plus many of the Euro prospects drafted over the last 5-10 years have washed out and been duds..I can maybe think of 10 good foriegn players in the league..the rest are all American.

I love Jimmy as much as the next guy, but the NBA draft is almost always about potential.  My guess is that a LOT of foreign players get drafted and stashed due to the overall weak draft.  With Jimmy, you know what you are getting, and sure that could be nice... but why take a role player (no offense) when you could draft a foreign player, develop them, and bring in a potential starter a year or two down the road?

I'm sorry, I just don't see JFB going until the last quarter of the first round or later.

[HouWarrior]

In 1992, though, the year of the original U.S. Olympic "Dream Team,"  the NBA had only 21 international players on its rosters. Today, that number has tripled to 20 percent of all NBA players who represent 40 countries.

Checking every NBA roster, there isnt one without some  player rooted outside  the USA. Dallas drafted Dirk Nowitzki from a European team..that worked out ok.

Last year, an NBA scout rated the European pros as AAA minor, and NCAA Div 1, as the AA minor level of play, to that of the NBA. Thats probably about right, as some NCAA kids who dont make the NBA, go to Europe, including, some of our recent ones.

By math definition, any 18-19 year old european cant equal the number of playing years of a 21 year old, such as JB...but to base the younger's failures on the claim the quality of pro ball in Europe doesnt favorably compare to NCAA Div. 1, isnt a supported basis.

[NersEllenson]

In 1992, though, the year of the original U.S. Olympic "Dream Team,"  the NBA had only 21 international players on its rosters. Today, that number has tripled to 20 percent of all NBA players who represent 40 countries.

Checking every NBA roster, there isnt one without some  player rooted outside  the USA. Dallas drafted Dirk Nowitzki from a European team..that worked out ok.

Last year, an NBA scout rated the European pros as AAA minor, and NCAA Div 1, as the AA minor level of play, to that of the NBA. Thats probably about right, as some NCAA kids who dont make the NBA, go to Europe, including, some of our recent ones.

By math definition, any 18-19 year old european cant equal the number of playing years of a 21 year old, such as JB...but to base the younger's failures on the claim the quality of pro ball in Europe doesnt favorably compare to NCAA Div. 1, isnt a supported basis.

Thanks for the findings...the issue in Hards point was the statement that in Jimmy "why take a role player when you could take a Euro who would evolve into a potential starter?"  The reality is that still, 4 out of every 5 NBA players is from the US, and I would surmise the number of starters in the NBA who are American is higher than 80%.  I don't see an 18 or 19 year old Euro having any better starting prospects in the NBA than a 21-year old Jimmy Big East tested..

However, how could guys from our D-1 college level rated Double AA, be good enough to go land roster spots on the Euro AAA league - yet the NBA is still 4/5ths American?  Wouldn't the Euro's be too good/better than our D-1 crop to where they shouldn't be able to make it even in a Euro pro-league?  To me the AAA league should be a better feeder system to a Pro League, than the Double AA league...which clearly isn't the case here..

[Hards Alumni]

Thanks for the findings...the issue in Hards point was the statement that in Jimmy "why take a role player when you could take a Euro who would evolve into a potential starter?"  The reality is that still, 4 out of every 5 NBA players is from the US, and I would surmise the number of starters in the NBA who are American is higher than 80%.  I don't see an 18 or 19 year old Euro having any better starting prospects in the NBA than a 21-year old Jimmy Big East tested..

However, how could guys from our D-1 college level rated Double AA, be good enough to go land roster spots on the Euro AAA league - yet the NBA is still 4/5ths American?  Wouldn't the Euro's be too good/better than our D-1 crop to where they shouldn't be able to make it even in a Euro pro-league?  To me the AAA league should be a better feeder system to a Pro League, than the Double AA league...which clearly isn't the case here..

Look dude, I am not arguing in your hypothetical world.  I am saying that this is what GMs do.  They will take a gamble on a Euro who could be the next Dirk rather than take a sure bet with Jimmy.  This is because GM's (especially of smaller market teams) HAVE to take risks.  I hope you understand what I am saying.

Otherwise I fear this is just becoming a wall argument.

[NersEllenson]

Look dude, I am not arguing in your hypothetical world.  I am saying that this is what GMs do.  They will take a gamble on a Euro who could be the next Dirk rather than take a sure bet with Jimmy.  This is because GM's (especially of smaller market teams) HAVE to take risks.  I hope you understand what I am saying.

Otherwise I fear this is just becoming a wall argument.

Sure - I do understand what you are saying, and the Euro's have been the en vogue 2nd round picks as teams can stash them overseas and not be bound to guaranteed first round money...yet they retain the rights.  We've seen Milwaukee Bucks flop epicly with Yi.  He was the next big thing.  Darko Milicic was the next Dirk.  There's been exactly 1 Dirk EVER. A lot of GM's were chasing that dream after Dirk, and a lot of those GM's aren't in a GM capacity anymore.  I can't think of more than 10 Euro's or foreign born players who have started in the league consistently.

My premise is that Jimmy has just as much upside/starter potential based on playing Big East ball and developing in a program like Marquette - as does some Euro with potential...and I think the starting lineups/composition of the league being 80% American bear this out..

[Hards Alumni]

Sure - I do understand what you are saying, and the Euro's have been the en vogue 2nd round picks as teams can stash them overseas and not be bound to guaranteed first round money...yet they retain the rights.  We've seen Milwaukee Bucks flop epicly with Yi.  He was the next big thing.  Darko Milicic was the next Dirk.  There's been exactly 1 Dirk EVER. A lot of GM's were chasing that dream after Dirk, and a lot of those GM's aren't in a GM capacity anymore.  I can't think of more than 10 Euro's or foreign born players who have started in the league consistently.

My premise is that Jimmy has just as much upside/starter potential based on playing Big East ball and developing in a program like Marquette - as does some Euro with potential...and I think the starting lineups/composition of the league being 80% American bear this out..

Yao Ming
Dirk Nowitzki
Hedo
Manu
Sasha V
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Tony Parker
Deng
Okur
AK-47
Big Z

seriously, thats just a short list.

If you really want to get into it, Steve Nash is from South Africa, and Tim Duncan is from St. Croix.

Jimmy Butler, or the potential for one of those?  I realize they aren't all going to be Dirk, and the GMs do too.  The NBA drafts on POTENTIAL, not how well a players has played.  It doesn't matter a hill of beans if he played in the BEAST or the SEC, or the WAC.  If the best college players were the best NBA players, Christian Laetner would be a HOF player.

Also, if my aunt had a cock, she would be my uncle.