Double Standards

[tower912]

Why is it that when Sean Miller of Xavier signs an 8 year contract extension, it effectively takes him off of everybody's domino board, but when TC signs a 10 year extension, it only increases the rumors about him?    TC ain't leaving.

[The Lens]

Maybe b/c Sean Miller has stopped telling Katz, Davis, DeCoursy etc that he's interested in those other jobs. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Maybe b/c Sean Miller has stopped telling Katz, Davis, DeCoursy etc that he's interested in those other jobs. 

STOP THE PRESSES!!!! Somebody understands that it's not Andy Katz adding fuel to these rumors?!?!

[Marquette84]

STOP THE PRESSES!!!! Somebody understands that it's not Andy Katz adding fuel to these rumors?!?!

And you know this how?

Lets face it, you're an anti-Crean guy, so you think these articles must be Crean's doing. 

You have us belive that Katz is oblivious to coaches who play him to get contract extentions or other considerations--especially with respect to Crean.  Meanwhile, you expect us to believe that Katz doesn't insert his own bias into his reporting--somehow Andy Katz is fundamentally more honest than Dukie V or Billy Packer with their pro-ACC/Duke bias.

You'd have us believe that Katz was played by Crean on Illinois.

THEN played AGAIN by Crean two years later with Ohio State. 

And somehow, Katz is NOW oblivious to the fact that the guy who's played him for contract considerations twice before, now takes him at face value? 

Even *I* have more respect for Katz as a journalist than that--nobody would permit themselves to be used as a tool the way you think Katz does.

[DoubleMU0609]

I don't think that anyone is saying that Crean himself is the source of these rumors (or maybe they are).  I think they're saying that Katz's sources (Sean Miller? who is this?) are saying that U of ___ is interested in Crean or that Crean is interest in U of ____.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

How ridiculous. I don't like Crean, but I'm not "anti Crean."

But use your head. If Katz is making up these rumors out of the clear blue sky, why would Crean continue to speak with him regularly during the season? Crean is a trusted source for Katz, Seth Davis and anybody willing to put a microphone in front of his face. Why would these guys call somebody else regarding rumors involving the name of a trusted source?

It's so freaking obvious it's pathetic that you don't understand it.

Katz wasn't "played" by Crean on Illinois. Crean INTERVIEWED FOR THE ILLINOIS JOB!!! He then shared that information with Andy Katz. Ohio St. had NO INTEREST in Crean. His name was "floated" by Katz as a service to Crean to see if they'd be interested in him. They weren't. That's how it works. Are you that thick skulled?

If you honestly think Andy Katz uses his role at ESPN to further some kind of Wisconsin agenda, you have some serious problems. You probably think the CIA had Kennedy assassinated.

I have no doubt, however, that when Kentucky hires Billy Donovan and completely ignores Tom Crean, people like you will continue to claim he "turned down" Kentucky because he loves MU so much.

Crean has yet to turn down another job since he's been in Milwaukee. He's never been offered one.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I don't think that anyone is saying that Crean himself is the source of these rumors (or maybe they are).  I think they're saying that Katz's sources (Sean Miller? who is this?) are saying that U of ___ is interested in Crean or that Crean is interest in U of ____.

1. Every journalist lists the same half a dozen coaches as soon as job opens up.
2. These journalists then speak to these coaches "off the record" to confirm interest.
3. These journalists then narrow their list of "possibilities" based on what their sources told them.

Do you not think Crean has already spoken to Andy Katz? Of course he has. And yet we hear no denial! Why would that be?

It's because HE WANTS THE JOB!!! He probably won't get it, but I hope he does.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

How ridiculous. I don't like Crean, but I'm not "anti Crean."

Can I just ask why you don't like him? I have known some people that have worked with him, and they haven't really cared for him... but his former players like him and he has done a really nice job at MU.

Why don't you like him?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

How ridiculous. I don't like Crean, but I'm not "anti Crean."

Can I just ask why you don't like him? I have known some people that have worked with him, and they haven't really cared for him... but his former players like him and he has done a really nice job at MU.

Why don't you like him?

He has done a nice job at MU...no denying that!!

There are many reasons I don't care for him.

[ilovefreeway]

PRN, the reasons are........?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

How ridiculous. I don't like Crean, but I'm not "anti Crean."

Can I just ask why you don't like him? I have known some people that have worked with him, and they haven't really cared for him... but his former players like him and he has done a really nice job at MU.

Why don't you like him?

He has done a nice job at MU...no denying that!!

There are many reasons I don't care for him.

OK, I'm probably going to hijack this thread (I like the original question however, and I really don't know why Crean gets mentioned more than miller)...

Anywyas... lets get down to business.

PRN, you have been blasted by a lot of people on this board because they feel that you are critical of Crean whenever/wherever possible simply because you don't like him.

Can you provide everybody some rationale on why you don't like him? I think that might help people understand your position.

As it stands now, you just appear bitter about something, and you appear to try to discredit Crean whenever possible.

I don't think Crean is God, and I'm open to all points of view (even critical ones)... but I (and others) are having a tough time understanding where you are coming from most of the time.

I don't want this to sound like an attack... I'm honestly just asking the questions because I'm tired of everybody using inuendos or "beating around the bush".

[ToddPacker]

How ridiculous. I don't like Crean, but I'm not "anti Crean."

But use your head. If Katz is making up these rumors out of the clear blue sky, why would Crean continue to speak with him regularly during the season? Crean is a trusted source for Katz, Seth Davis and anybody willing to put a microphone in front of his face. Why would these guys call somebody else regarding rumors involving the name of a trusted source?

It's so freaking obvious it's pathetic that you don't understand it.

Katz wasn't "played" by Crean on Illinois. Crean INTERVIEWED FOR THE ILLINOIS JOB!!! He then shared that information with Andy Katz. Ohio St. had NO INTEREST in Crean. His name was "floated" by Katz as a service to Crean to see if they'd be interested in him. They weren't. That's how it works. Are you that thick skulled?

If you honestly think Andy Katz uses his role at ESPN to further some kind of Wisconsin agenda, you have some serious problems. You probably think the CIA had Kennedy assassinated.

I have no doubt, however, that when Kentucky hires Billy Donovan and completely ignores Tom Crean, people like you will continue to claim he "turned down" Kentucky because he loves MU so much.

Crean has yet to turn down another job since he's been in Milwaukee. He's never been offered one.

It's freaking pathetic that you do not understand (1) that not liking Crean and being anti-Crean are, frankly, the same thing and (2) that the reason Crean continues to talk to these two is because, duh, they work for two of the largest networks in the world and there is a limited number of guys who cover college hoops.  It would be downright irresponsible for Crean to cut off media contact to two guys (Davis and Katz) who hold the positions they do.  I find it hillarious that you call other people out and call them pathetic when your dislike for Crean completely clouds your ability to be objective about anything regarding him.

[Big Papi]

I think Crean has done a great job for MU but the fact of the matter is his name keeps cropping up for these jobs.  Why?  I think there are numerous reasons including:

1.  MU is not considered a destination, dream job but a stepping stone by the media.
2.  TC has done a very good job building the program up to where it is now so there is interest from other programs.
3.  TC has been successful which other programs want.
4.  TC is young and energetic which again is desireable.
5.  TC or someone from his camp is floating his name out there for some reason.  It could because he likes to hear his name in the media, additional leverage for more money/additional years from MU, or a general interest in the open position.  Otherwise, he could just issue a blanket denial that he is not interested in leaving.  Of course, Matta did say he had no interest and what a week later he was announced as the new head coach of Ohio State.

[DAtruth]

im pretty sure it was like next day matta left..worse than saban eh..and who dont want to be romanced a little..told how great you are..how much your needed and respected..then maybe  a fat check appears and you sip on some $1,000 a bottle wine and think about it..    what time does the jet arrive to pick me up? 8)

[LastWarrior]

Andy Katz (a UW grad) doesn't think the Marquette job is good enough to keep a coach of Crean's level.  He thinks the Big Ten is the best conference in the world and why wouldn't anybody want to coach in it.  He can't comprehend how good Crean has it and doesn't believe that Crean would want to stay and thinks he is always looking for a new job.

Most importantly, Katz is a weasel.  He has misquoted and blatantly lied about conversations he has had with the NCAA selection committee representatives over the past couple of weeks.  From the folks I know, they say he's considered a weasel by the NCAA and nobody likes talking to him.  Take it for what it's worth.

[Marquette84]

How ridiculous. I don't like Crean, but I'm not "anti Crean."

But use your head. If Katz is making up these rumors out of the clear blue sky, why would Crean continue to speak with him regularly during the season? Crean is a trusted source for Katz, Seth Davis and anybody willing to put a microphone in front of his face. Why would these guys call somebody else regarding rumors involving the name of a trusted source?

It's so freaking obvious it's pathetic that you don't understand it.

Katz wasn't "played" by Crean on Illinois. Crean INTERVIEWED FOR THE ILLINOIS JOB!!! He then shared that information with Andy Katz. Ohio St. had NO INTEREST in Crean. His name was "floated" by Katz as a service to Crean to see if they'd be interested in him. They weren't. That's how it works. Are you that thick skulled?

If you honestly think Andy Katz uses his role at ESPN to further some kind of Wisconsin agenda, you have some serious problems. You probably think the CIA had Kennedy assassinated.

I have no doubt, however, that when Kentucky hires Billy Donovan and completely ignores Tom Crean, people like you will continue to claim he "turned down" Kentucky because he loves MU so much.

Crean has yet to turn down another job since he's been in Milwaukee. He's never been offered one.

So you're saying that Andy Katz is fully willing to toss journastic integrity out the window so he can do "favors" for Tom Crean.  Favors that, frankly, provide absolutely no value to Katz.  Favors that would get him fired if they were ever proven.

Yet, you think I'm thick skulled for suggesting that perhaps just maybe he shows bias for his alma mater and the Big 10 conference? 

At least I have examples I can point to like Billy Packer and Dick Vitale who are blatant in their bias for the ACC and Duke respectively. 

But somehow, in your mind, it's beyond the pale that another college basketball reporter (from Wisconsin of the Big 10) just might also show some favortism.

But lets take this one step further--let's assume for a moment that Katz IS pulling water for Crean--wouldn't SOME other reporter--ambitious perhaps for a shot at an ESPN reporting gig--actually follow up with Ohio State or Illinos?  Run the story that Andy Katz is full of crap--that Illinois interviewed Crean and turned him down?  That Ohio State was never interested?

And what does that say about the journalistic ability of Andy Katz?  That he'll take the word of Tom Crean and put it in his articles WITHOUT BOTHERING TO MAKE A PHONE CALL TO ILLINOIS OR OHIO STATE!!!!

Think of it--you actually are suggesting that Katz is more willing to FABRICATE news for the benefit of a college rival's coach than he is to reflect his own bias in his reporting. 
 
These reporters here hear unsubstantiated rumors all the time--funny how those involoving Crean just happen to make the news more often than others.



Now, lets look at Crean's motivations in this.  According to you, he interviews with Illinois and doesn't get the job.  So he tells Andy Katz to publish that fact.

Of course, his best hope of getting the next "Illinois-type" job is to continue to coach and recruit at the level that brougth in Dwyane Wade and got MU to the final four A good first step would be a recruting class of Brian Butch, Andrew Lavander and Brandon Foust to go along with Dameon Mason. 

Yet, in your fantasy world, Crean tells Katz to publish rumors that he's going to leave--thus ensuring that Butch. Lavander and Foust go elsewhere and Crean settles for Carlton Christian and Brandon Bell and James Matthews--thus sealing an NIT season the following year.

Now, I ask you this--if Crean really did want to leave after interviewing (and not getting) the Illinois job--WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD HE DO SOMETHING THAT WOULD SO BLATANTLY HURT HIS CHANCE THE NEXT YEAR?? 

What do you think would help his chance more?  Keeping his mouth shut and landing Butch--proving his recruting ability?  Or spilling the beans so that Bo Ryan could make "Crean won't be around when you graduate" his #1 recruting message?

Is this not freaking obvious to you? 

[mu03eng]

^^^^^^^AMEN!!!!^^^^^^^^

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have no doubt that Crean talks to Katz, Davis, Decourcy and others.  However, I have had conversations wtih Mike DeCourcy and he has said flat out that Crean has never lobbied through him for a job, etc.

Now, I happen to believe Crean has interviewed for other jobs as well, big deal. Happens all of the time in that business and I mean ALL OF THE TIME.  The Final Four is a coaching whore convention and that's what goes on.  Asst. coaches running around with resumes, coaches meeting in hotel suites with AD's, etc, etc.  It's just part of the gig, part of the territory.  Doesn't bother me a bit.

All of this I agree with you on PRN, 100%.  However, where I lose you entirely is why DeCourcy, Katz, Davis, etc would continue to put their image, their reputation, their credibility on the line each and every year for Tom Crean?  I mean, does Crean have naked pictures of these guys?   Why on earth would they go to bat for him and push him constantly?  Why would they risk being wrong (which Katz has been year after year after year) and losing their image as an "insider" just to further Crean's career or to push his desires?

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense now does it?

At some point this rationale needs a bit of logic woven into the thread and I don't see why these reporters are so willing to do this.