Indiana Elite Article

[ChicosBailBonds]

If ESPN ran this story about Marquette, Chicos would probably need another "time out" and he'd probably throw in reference to our players being "dogs."

Or maybe even a reference about how Buzz Williams married his wife for nefarious reasons, eh PRN?  That was a new low blow, even for you.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You of all people want evidence? You who've gone after Buzz on stuff that is at best rumor and innuendo and at worst totally fabricated? I've already said that IU likely skates on this - short of tapes, and neither Crean nor Adams are that stupid, how can one "prove" that this thing that looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck is indeed a duck? That doesn't mean that people won't connect the dots on the IU/Adams "arrangement" and think it smells like a three day old fish. Any IU backer who is not troubled or squirming over this is either a fool or a lemming/fanboy. I'll be the first to concede that you're no fool.

BS, that's not what you said.  YOU SAID THEY GOT PLAYERS AS A RESULT OF HIRING ADAMS AND IT WAS A QUID PRO QUO and an OBVIOUS one at that.  You can't even own up to your own damn words you stated earlier today.  Pathetic

"EVEN OBVIOUS QUID PRO QUOS"...your words.  Tell me now that means something different than what everyone knows you meant it to mean.  Please, tell us. 

Funny, for the same reason I can name a bunch of MU fans that didn't squirm about a number of things going on at MU the last 2 years because they are lemmings and fanboys...go figure.

[Lennys Tap]

Even "obvious quid pro quos"....wow....not a shred of evidence but there you go.  Glass is unimpeachable as is Julie Cromer....it would be so nice for you to actually understand who the players are but you have no clue and your hatred clouds your every words.

You so want something to come of this that you are salivating.  It's dripping on your keyboard. Funny stuff and sad.  Facts be damned...it's all a quid pro quo.  LOL

Nope, didn't have anything to do with wanting to play for Indiana University...instead it was a quid pro quo.



House, you should get out of the doctor business on tv and become an inspector.  Maybe a CSI show for you.

As previously stated, a "smoking gun" is almost never found in a case like this. The circumstantial evidence (which can be enough for a first degree murder conviction), though, points directly at Adams and IU.

Glass and Cromer are "unimpeachable" why? Because you say so? Don't try that in a court of law or in front of the NCAA infractions committee.

I don't hate Crean or anyone else. I wasn't brought up that way. I do wonder about people who treat others abysmally and engender fierce dislike and even hatred because of it. What went haywire in their lives to make them that way?

Do you really think that Hanner Perea grew up in Colombia dreaming of playing for Indiana?

Finally, please stop calling me out by name, occupation, etc. It's creepy, smacks of a stalker's mentality and is childish, not clever.

[Lennys Tap]

Exactly.  And just as ESPN stated yesterday by Brenan.."Really, the story is A-HOPE" pretty much sums it up.  Exactly what I've been saying...too bad it took ESPN's second journalist to state this and not the first one.

Thanks for concurring with me.  God Bless America and Happy Memorial Day

So you agree you only "call it as you see it" unless it's about IU? Finally the Memorial Day miracle we've all been waiting for.

[Lennys Tap]

BS, that's not what you said.  YOU SAID THEY GOT PLAYERS AS A RESULT OF HIRING ADAMS AND IT WAS A QUID PRO QUO and an OBVIOUS one at that.  You can't even own up to your own damn words you stated earlier today.  Pathetic

"EVEN OBVIOUS QUID PRO QUOS"...your words.  Tell me now that means something different than what everyone knows you meant it to mean.  Please, tell us. 

Funny, for the same reason I can name a bunch of MU fans that didn't squirm about a number of things going on at MU the last 2 years because they are lemmings and fanboys...go figure.

I think it is pretty obvious they got players from the AAU team by hiring the son of the AAU coach (and guardian, benefactor,etc). Whether the circumstantial evidence will be enough for the NCAA - don't know, probably not.


The funny thing is you call us fanboys for not squiming about things nowhere near established in the public record. You (who have had a hard on for Buzz since the day he was hired) give us innuendo from unnamed sources that "proves" Buzz is violating NCAA rules. Well, I don't see ESPN or the NCAA camping out on the MU campus, so forgive me and others if we take your unsourced allegations with a grain of salt.

This Indiana stuff is well established in the public record. And believe me, if Buzz hired Mac Irvin's kid and in turn Mac was bringing 5 star kids to his home from Colombia, providing for said kids and then delivering them to Buzz and MU you would be going batsh*t. And you know it.

[NersEllenson]

I think it is pretty obvious they got players from the AAU team by hiring the son of the AAU coach (and guardian, benefactor,etc). Whether the circumstantial evidence will be enough for the NCAA - don't know, probably not.


The funny thing is you call us fanboys for not squiming about things nowhere near established in the public record. You (who have had a hard on for Buzz since the day he was hired) give us innuendo from unnamed sources that "proves" Buzz is violating NCAA rules. Well, I don't see ESPN or the NCAA camping out on the MU campus, so forgive me and others if we take your unsourced allegations with a grain of salt.

This Indiana stuff is well established in the public record. And believe me, if Buzz hired Mac Irvin's kid and in turn Mac was bringing 5 star kids to his home from Colombia, providing for said kids and then delivering them to Buzz and MU you would be going batsh*t. And you know it.

Game, set, match.  Considering whispers and rumors CBB hears through the grapevine have unnerved him to the degree he's implied - hard to imagine what the reaction would be to the above bolded scenario.  At the end of the day, desperate times call for desperate measures, and I can't blame Crean for going the route he did - even if it is Calipari-esque.  He wasn't getting 5-star kids to IU prior to making the deal...he did what he had to do in the spirit of winning.  Was it illegal?  Nope.  But we darn well know the self-righteous among the self righteous here - namely CBB - would be completely up in arms if Buzz Williams made such a hire.  Thus the continued hypocrisy of the guy who makes more money than the Marquette Athletic Director...per himself.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As previously stated, a "smoking gun" is almost never found in a case like this. The circumstantial evidence (which can be enough for a first degree murder conviction), though, points directly at Adams and IU.

Glass and Cromer are "unimpeachable" why? Because you say so? Don't try that in a court of law or in front of the NCAA infractions committee.

I don't hate Crean or anyone else. I wasn't brought up that way. I do wonder about people who treat others abysmally and engender fierce dislike and even hatred because of it. What went haywire in their lives to make them that way?

Do you really think that Hanner Perea grew up in Colombia dreaming of playing for Indiana?

Finally, please stop calling me out by name, occupation, etc. It's creepy, smacks of a stalker's mentality and is childish, not clever.

No, I don't think Hanner Perea grew up in Columbia dreaming of playing for Indiana. I think when he got good and had an opportunity to come to the United States and fulfill a dream he took it.  Much like some Marquette players have done in the past, Mbao being the latest.  Do I think most of the other Indiana Elite kids did...yes, yet you and Pakuni throw things out there like it's some miracle that all these Indiana kids...wait for it...want to play for Indiana.

Stop with the smoking gun BS, it wreaks of desperation and a lack of mental acuity and laziness quite frankly.

Glass and Cromer...no, it's not because I say so it because everyone in athletics (or for that matter those who know Evan Bayh as well as his dealings with the Colts, the stadium, amateur athletics in Indy, the Super Bowl, the Final Fours, etc) that's worth a damn knows it.  He is unimpeachable.  This is what I've been trying to tell you for three years but since you don't know a damn thing about college athletics or the people in it let alone what happens in the shadows, you wouldn't understand.  That's why!  I have zero doubt you know very little about Glass and it speaks volumes in this situation. If Fred bought off on this, which it appears by all indications he was in the know from the very start, then this story is over as far as IU is concerned.   I also have zero doubt that MOST people have no idea who Cromer is, but again if you knew her background and WHY she was brought in at IU you would know that all this stuff was cleared with the NCAA long ago.  This is not an IU story. Nor is it a Purdue story or a Duke story or a UNC story, yet all those schools have ties to Indiana Elite and the Adams. If anything comes of it, it is an A-Hope story.  Period.  Your desire to wet yourself in hopes of some guilty conviction to please fill your guilty pleasures aren't going to pass.  Sorry to say.

You said what you said....you said they were guilty of a quid pro quo for players in exchange for Adams now you want to squirm away from that and say it's a smoking gun and your old Matlock intuition kicks in.  By that very definition, you should be greatly worried about Buzz Williams then because there have been plenty of smoking guns behind the scenes as well that have been spoken...does that mean automatic guilt?   Or is it only "legitimate" when ESPN puts an article out there on it? You sure seem to think so.  Hell, I said the whispers about MU stuf made me squirm but I was clear to say it didn't mean they were true.  Yet here you are saying a smoking gun equals guilt for this coach but not for another.  Wow, hypocrisy much?

The difference is that we're a small school with a minor national following that doesn't get ESPN to do stories on us because we're not worth their time...that's the reality.  IU, KU, UK, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Ohio State those are the types of schools that get shots taken at them, not a MU or Gonzaga or a DePaul, etc.  That's just how it is.  If we become a powerhouse again, then that's when that type of digging goes on. The back tracking by ESPN the last few days has been interesting. Listening to Fish on the radio yesterday was an absolute embarrassment and Bodenheimer must have been cringing. What a bumbling idiot who couldn't remember who said what and backpedaled on about 80% of this tripe. This has Baylor University written all over it and Fish stumbled badly when he was called out on that question.  

Finally, if Buzz hired Mac Irvin's kid today, yeah I would have problems with it...because it's illegal TODAY. DUH.  It wasn't then...it was smart.  Secondly, are you really comparing Mac Irvin to Adams.  I see their reputations as vastly different and I believe most in the recruiting business would agree...not all, but most.  Besides, haven't you seen the traditional players that Adams and Indiana Elite produce?

I'm sorry if you don't understand the difference between legal and illegal. What I go bat#$ about is illegal things we are accused of, not the LEGAL things we are doing.  Thanks for playing.  I rather enjoy the fact we've never been on NCAA probation and hope it stays that way forever.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Game, set, match.  Considering whispers and rumors CBB hears through the grapevine have unnerved him to the degree he's implied - hard to imagine what the reaction would be to the above bolded scenario.  At the end of the day, desperate times call for desperate measures, and I can't blame Crean for going the route he did - even if it is Calipari-esque.  He wasn't getting 5-star kids to IU prior to making the deal...he did what he had to do in the spirit of winning.  Was it illegal?  Nope.

Key words in your paragraph...NOT ILLEGAL.  That would be the difference between some of the rumors and whispers as well.

If Crean or his staff did something wrong, Glass will fire them as he should.  He gets it.  He is unimpeachable in my view.  If there is something going on that's legit, TC will be fired.  If Glass says it's on th up and up, then it's on the up and up.

Game, set and match INDEED.

To suggest it was Calipari-esque...now that is funny.  Making comments like that or what Pakuni has done shows how incredibly ignorant you are on the topic.  You might as well yell out banana fireman obama anteater and you would show the same cognitive skills and relational knowledge because the comparison is so incorrect.

Don't ever talk to me about hypocrisy.  When someone is in love, literally, and has a mancrush (your words) on an individual, you have no objective reasoning at all.  NONE.  This is why wives rarely testify against their husbands.

PS Crean landed high profile guys long before Adams and will do so long after Adams....whether that's Novak, Diener, Hayward, McNeal, Matthews, James at MU or Creek, Elston, Watford, etc at IU (long before Adams was around) but nice try anyway.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm sorry if you don't understand the difference between legal and illegal. What I go bat#$ about is illegal things we are accused of, not the LEGAL things we are doing.  Thanks for playing.  I rather enjoy the fact we've never been on NCAA probation and hope it stays that way forever.

This is simply not true. You have been going bat#$ about all things Buzz Williams since the day he was hired. You didn't want him hired in the first place and, as you make eminently clear on a daily basis, you are loathe to admit you were wrong.

Was it "illegal" when Buzz recruited jucos to help keep the program successful? No, but you certainly went bat#$ about it. And even if one takes the Newbill camp's version of events as gospel (as you who claim to be objective did), did anything "illegal" happen? No,yet you went beyond bat#$. And these are but two of many anti-Buzz bat#$ rants you've conjered up in the past. Your shadowy campaign of unsourced innuendo against Buzz is merely the latest in a long history of you going anti-Buzz bat#$, so it's no surprise that almost nobody on this board is willing to take your word for it.

So please don't insult our intelligence by claiming the reason you're not going bat#$ over this IU/Indiana Elite mess is based on legality/illegality as you certainly don't have a record for reserving your self righteousness and indignation for the technically illegal, at least where Buzz Williams and Marquette are concerned. This whole thing stinks, and if it happened at MU on Buzz William's watch you'd be leading the charge saying as much. 

[ringout]

Ohio State hired a ton of compliance geeks.  No way would bad behavior ever happen in Columbus again.  Gene Smith was going to rule with an iron fist.

Oops.

Not saying this is the story in Bloomington, but it could happen.

3  2  1  Chicos head explodes.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

A story run on ESPN.com is "not a story?"

Classic.

[4everwarriors]

So, the next dude coachin' tOSU will be in the craphouse for at least 4-5 years judgin' the state of the program Tressel left?

[GGGG]

A couple things here:

--Chicos is spot on about Fred Glass.  He has a sterling reputation, which is one of the reasons he was brought in at IU.  What happened under Sampson was embarrassing to IU fans.  (And I live here and am surrounded by them.)

--Crean's relationship with Adams makes people squirm.  It does go right up to the edge of what might be considered inappropriate...but my guess is that the NCAA isn't going find anything.  But I do not know this for a fact - no one here does.

--While Adams *may* have had some sort of influence on the Indiana Elite kids going to IU, I fail to see what is so strange about a bunch of in-state prospects all choosing to stay in-state to play for the local basketball power.  (And no matter their success, IU hoops will always be a step ahead of Purdue for most local fans...and a staircase ahead of Butler.)  As an outsider, I find it facinating, but IU basketball is like Alabama football - a proud tradition of success, but a near obsessive fan-base.  The idea that a bunch of prospects want to stay in-state to help revitalize that is not unheard of by any means.  It's not that much different, although greater in magnitude, than what Kevin O'Neill did when he first got to MU.

[Lennys Tap]

The difference is that we're a small school with a minor national following that doesn't get ESPN to do stories on us because we're not worth their time...that's the reality.  IU, KU, UK, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Ohio State those are the types of schools that get shots taken at them, not a MU or Gonzaga or a DePaul, etc.  That's just how it is.  If we become a powerhouse again, then that's when that type of digging goes on.

So when we become a powerhouse again like IU (8-49 in conference, two last place finishes in the past three years) ESPN will start taking shots at us. Just imagine how much harder ESPN would have come after IU if they had managed to finish 11th all three years. LOL

[Lennys Tap]

A couple things here:



--While Adams *may* have had some sort of influence on the Indiana Elite kids going to IU, I fail to see what is so strange about a bunch of in-state prospects all choosing to stay in-state to play for the local basketball power.  (And no matter their success, IU hoops will always be a step ahead of Purdue for most local fans...and a staircase ahead of Butler.)  As an outsider, I find it facinating, but IU basketball is like Alabama football - a proud tradition of success, but a near obsessive fan-base.  The idea that a bunch of prospects want to stay in-state to help revitalize that is not unheard of by any means.  It's not that much different, although greater in magnitude, than what Kevin O'Neill did when he first got to MU.

What about Hanner Perea, the 5* Colombian kid Adams brought to Bloomington, housed, clothed, fed and provided cash for trips home, laptops,etc? Did he grow up dreaming of being a Hoosier or was he delivered to IU by Adams? And how long will a "near obsessive" fanbase put up with epic failure? Funny things happen under that kind of pressure.

[GGGG]

Lennys I have no idea about Hanner Perea.  I never claimed to.  What I said was that it wasn't unheard of for Indiana kids to want to play IU - such as Cody Zeller and the other Indiana kids that play for Indiana Elite.

And believe me, if Crean hadn't gotten Zeller, and hadn't brought together the class (with or without Perea) that he is putting together in 2012, the fans would be up in arms.  He has bought himself a couple more years now.

Look, I have no interest in IU basketball or Tom Crean.  I have no agendas or connections with either.  I am at least attempting to be reasonable here.

[Lennys Tap]

Lennys I have no idea about Hanner Perea.  I never claimed to.  What I said was that it wasn't unheard of for Indiana kids to want to play IU - such as Cody Zeller and the other Indiana kids that play for Indiana Elite.

And believe me, if Crean hadn't gotten Zeller, and hadn't brought together the class (with or without Perea) that he is putting together in 2012, the fans would be up in arms.  He has bought himself a couple more years now.

Look, I have no interest in IU basketball or Tom Crean.  I have no agendas or connections with either.  I am at least attempting to be reasonable here.

I think you're being absolutely reasonable.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Or maybe even a reference about how Buzz Williams married his wife for nefarious reasons, eh PRN?  That was a new low blow, even for you.

Was it lower than when I said I hoped Crean gets involved in a sexual scandal with one of his own players? Because I remember saying that and I still hope it happens.

[Ari Gold]

has @CoachTomCrean made a statement about this yet?
I miss him

[Canadian Dimes]

I have read the articles...and have have read the strings and have sat back and laughed as a certain poster holds onto opinions as stone hard facts.  The hypocrisy is truly pathetic.  It is amazing that poster that feels such ill will to towards a university and/or coach that he would waste so much time and energy on said univerities fan forum.  To say Buzz makes him squirm and then to defend this whole situation is simply the icing on the cake with this poster, truly sad.

My back ground gives me some insight into the whole deal.

One fact that seems to get dropped as immaterial by defenders in this whole discussion is Adams(the father) is an Indiana Alum and Booster.  Simple question...how many MU alum posters on this board if you son worked for MArquette Basketball ( or even if he did not or if you did not have a son invlolved) and if you coached and ran an AAU program would not be "pushing" MU to those kids? 

Pretty dumb question really.  As is any defense of the guy...dumb.

One "fact" that has been stated that is completely untrue.  Bloomington Red of the 80's and 90's is not Indiana Elite.  Indiana Elite is less than 10 years old if my memory serves me. 

I am not arguing Indiana kids dont want to go to IU they always have, that is why IU has always been good.  But to argue that Jurkin, Perea, Ajou, and others along with the Indiana kids were not heavy encouraged and enticed to go to IU by a booster and father of a employee is again ludicrous.

I have a son that attends Culver Military, I have another son that played for Indiana Elite, I know all the parties involved, I have coached AAU for years.  But what do I know? 

[Dr. Blackheart]

In honor of Chicos' "Return from Elba", here is an update on this situation. Jurkin and Perea still not cleared by the NCAA and Perea looks doubtful any time soon by the looks of it.  Maybe this helps explain why CTC is oversigned by two working on three for 2013?

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/66390/will-indianas-freshman-forwards-be-eligible

[Jay Bee]

[4everwarriors]

Coach Tom Crean sure has 'em workin' hard on positionin'.