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Author Topic: Where are all the pass-first point guards?  (Read 2667 times)

NYWarrior

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Where are all the pass-first point guards?
« on: March 22, 2007, 12:54:52 PM »
“I think Allen Iverson messed up the game,” Weaver said in a telephone interview. “All these little guys dribble around instead of passing the ball.”

todays NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/sports/ncaabasketball/22guards.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

N.C.A.A. Tournament
Lately, Guards Are Just Unable to Get the Point
By THAYER EVANS and PETE THAMEL

SAN ANTONIO, March 21 — Great guard play wins games in March, or so the cliché goes. Teams like Texas A&M, Nevada-Las Vegas, Ohio State and North Carolina have reached the Round of 16 at the N.C.A.A. tournament on the backs of their stellar point guards.

Players like Acie Law IV, Kevin Kruger, Mike Conley Jr. and Ty Lawson have led their teams by looking to set up teammates for scoring opportunities, rather than by scoring themselves. Those players, however, have become more the exception than the rule in recent years.

Coaches, N.B.A. scouts and talent evaluators say there are a variety of reasons why the pass-first point guard seems to have gone missing. But the primary reason they point to is that a generation of players weaned on Allen Iverson crossovers does not value passing as an art.

“No one wants to set the table anymore,” Mount St. Mary’s Coach Milan Brown said in a telephone interview. “Everyone wants to eat.”

Before the N.B.A. established an age limit last year, high school stars — especially the taller ones — were flying to the pros, leaving the college game virtually void of talented big men. The impact of the draft rule has been obvious during this N.C.A.A. tournament, which has showcased players 6-foot-9 and above, like Ohio State’s Greg Oden, Texas’ Kevin Durant and North Carolina’s Brandan Wright.

But the less publicized and perhaps even more meaningful trend in the college game has been the absence of pass-first leaders at the point-guard position the past few years.

Traditional point guards like Bobby Hurley, Kenny Anderson and Mateen Cleaves, who dominated past N.C.A.A. tournaments, have become as rare in college basketball as thigh-hugging shorts. Since 2000, the number of players averaging more than seven assists a game has decreased from 11 to 2.

“They’re hard to come by,” Texas Coach Rick Barnes said of point guards in a telephone interview. “It’s a talent now.”

There are differing opinions among college coaches and N.B.A. personnel as to why there is a dearth of true point guards.

Barnes said the shortage had been caused by an increased emphasis on scoring. In an era of highlight dunks and a college 3-point line that has been called too close to the basket, the craft of running a team and distributing the ball is not viewed as being glamorous, he said.

Barnes has been lucky to be blessed with point guards while at Texas. He coached T. J. Ford, one of only three point guards in the past decade to win the Naismith Award, which is given annually to college basketball’s top player.

Since then, Barnes has sent point guard Daniel Gibson to the N.B.A. and has another potential N.B.A. point guard in the freshman D. J. Augustin. He averaged 14.4 points this season and led all freshmen with 6.7 assists a game.

True point guards, Barnes said, have common characteristics.

“They see things a little bit differently,” he said. “The ones that I’ve been around have been very, very unselfish.”

The Utah Jazz scout Troy Weaver, a former Syracuse University assistant, said the definition of a point guard for younger players had been clouded by those who looked to score first.

“I think Allen Iverson messed up the game,” Weaver said in a telephone interview. “All these little guys dribble around instead of passing the ball.”

Tennessee Coach Bruce Pearl said that many talented high school players avoided playing point guard to bolster their exposure to college coaches. Many guards, he said, believe the only way they can get noticed is by scoring points.

“There’s a lot of shooting guards out there that could be great point guards,” Pearl said in a telephone interview.

In high school, Conley said, there was a negative perception of being a point guard. He is averaging 10.6 points and 6.2 assists for the Buckeyes. “If you’re not a scoring point guard, people don’t think of you as highly,” Conley said. “They don’t think of you as the type that’s going to make an impact in college because you’re not trying to score 20 points a game. You’re more trying to get 10 assists.”

But Pearl said he believed that more young players would want to be point guards in the future. He compared the situation to an increased number of football players seeking to become cornerbacks instead of wide receivers.

“For years, everybody wanted to be wide receivers,” Pearl said. “Now, the guys that get paid the most are the cover corners. At some point, these shooting guards are going to figure out there’s a lot of guys that can score with the ball, but their best chance may be as a point guard.”

The N.B.A. draft last year showed signs of the lack of floor leaders; only one point guard, Villanova’s Randy Foye, was selected among the first 20 picks.

Law is projected to be the only point guard in the first 20 picks of this year’s draft. N.B.A. scouts say the Marist senior point guard Jared Jordan is the best passer in this year’s point-guard class.

“There’s immense value in having a true point guard,” Marty Blake, the N.B.A.’s director of scouting, said in a telephone interview. “It’s as important as any other position but center. Point guards don’t get traded very often.”

SoCalwarrior

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Re: Where are all the pass-first point guards?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2007, 01:03:09 PM »
It would be great if James took note.  He has great court vision, as well as the speed to penetrate and pass.  The only thing standing between him and 10+ assists a night is the desire.

MarquetteVol

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Re: Where are all the pass-first point guards?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2007, 01:39:15 PM »
It would be great if James took note.  He has great court vision, as well as the speed to penetrate and pass.  The only thing standing between him and 10+ assists a night is the desire.

That's not the only thing. He could also use a big man, or two, capable of catching the ball and converting. I saw DJ throw a lot of incredible passes of off Ooze's or Burke's hands this year. Not a knock on those guys, but it's not like he was playing with Durant or Oden every night. Plus, without other guards capable of hitting open threes, a lot of opportunities for DJ were lost to turn in 10+ assist nights. He also finished with 167 assists to 89 turnovers, which I think is excellent for someone who handled the ball as much as he did.

SoCalwarrior

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Re: Where are all the pass-first point guards?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2007, 02:05:07 PM »
Certainly a future NBA big man would help inflate those assists, and I know what you're saying concerning our big's hands at times.  But IMHO, I don't think personell was the reason he wasn't getting more assists.  It's not like he was playing with a bunch of stiffs.  We were a top twenty team for most of the season.   

In at least half of our games, he played like a true point guard.  But when we hit that late season slump, James was playing outside of the game.  He was doing too much dribbling and forcing too many ill advised three point shots which were akin to T.O.s.   I'm not asking for him to show us something that we haven't already seen him do.   I just want him to play a bit more organically.

rugbydrummer

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Re: Where are all the pass-first point guards?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2007, 12:32:37 AM »
I'm sorry, that (lack of unwillingness to creating assists/dishing the ball) is just the biggest problem I've had w/ DJ from the beginning . . .  I was a very irate fan at the start of last season (05-06) because I felt as though he were the most selfish ball handler on the planet . . . yes, it has improved and I have cooled off since then, but seriously, despite all his ability, sometimes I just wonder what he wants more right now--to be mr. "I'm-going-places-and-I-know-it" or Mr. Marquette Basketball.  I mean, face it sometimes it's hard to tell!  To my estimation, though, if you play hard for your team, and you're as good as he is, I'm pretty sure that the NBA pieces will simply fall together nicely in his lap.  At least, that is what seemed to work for Diener (and Novak), and it's fairly evident that DJ has even greater potential than Diener in some ways.  Oh well, maybe DJ will help make the team his again (we can only hope).

P.S. Plus ... if DJ passes first, he could definitely be on the receiving end of an alley-oop give 'n go, making him look even more fabulous :D

ozmetal71

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James is certainly capable of being a great passer
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2007, 08:41:05 AM »
James had quite a few games where he really passed the ball well and made things happen for his teammates.  However, when we struggled down the stretch, he was forcing idiotic 3-pointer after idiotic 3-pointer, or driving into three guys by himself.  The game late in the year where had 11 assists was proof of his ability to be a passer when he wants to.

I think he felt this year that he had to do everything, or he was still operating like he was in high school where he could blow by everyone.  But, against a Big East zone defense, he can't do that and needs to adjust his game.  And, if you want to keep taking every 3-point shot you can find, try to make more than 30% of them over the course of the season, and when you are 5-35 at one point, STOP SHOOTING!

When he lets the game come to him, doesn't dribble around for thirty seconds, and plays smart, he is a fantastic point guard.

Diener was also more of a scorer, but he was the only option on the 03-04 and 04-05 teams most of the time.

If James would model his game after Cordell Henry(who I think while of limited talent, did maximize it under Crean and played well as an upperclassman), he will certainly truly blossom.