Rants and Raves

[TedBaxter]

if MU is going to sign someone it better be quick.  Its May 1st and most of the recruits signed for this year are getting ready to report to their school for summer classes. 

Freshman typically come in for the second summer session that usually starts the first week of July.  Plenty of time if there is someone out there.

[Tulsa Warrior]

A lot of us are in basketball season withdrawal.  The absence of real news creates a heck of a vacuum.  What do we really know right now?  The corp of returning players are deep and show promise.  I think most on the message board underrate the value of having that open scholarship.  Buzz is not going to be outworked on the recruiting front.  I don't see a track record of signing someone just to take a crazy gamble.  While Crean had success at Marquette he did gamble that way.  An example is Pat Hazel.  That will not happen under Buzz.  Roseboro was an abberation and a product of the situation Buzz and Company found themselves with in that first year.  All programs will have transfers.  It's just the times we are in. 

Does Marquette bank the scholarship?  My gut says it's 50/50.  So much can and will happen in the next few months at D1 schools -- mystery foreign player like the one mentioned in the past few days, a one year transfer who is registered for the NBA Draft but pulls out, or someone who has or will get out of an LOI.

Even if Marquette doesn't sign anyone the program is in good shape.  Buzz has demonstrated in his first three seasons that he knows how to play the hand he is dealt.  The weight room and on the court player development will probably have more of an impact on 11-12 success than any late signee who arrives on campus before the start of the school year.  In the meantime I hope you saved some Marquette games on the DVR.

[muball]

I keep thinking they will sign Juniors Canadian friend for 1 year who is going to graduate school.  Good choice

[Marquette84]

I don't see a track record of signing someone just to take a crazy gamble.  While Crean had success at Marquette he did gamble that way.  An example is Pat Hazel.  That will not happen under Buzz. 

Sorry--already has.

Liam McMorrow--signed June 30th, 2008
Mousopha Mbao--signed April 27th, 2009

Say what you want about Crean and Hazel, McMorrow and Mbao were every bit the gamble that Hazel was.

McMorrow is fully cleared medically and averaged just 10 mpg, 3 ppg for Tennessee Tech.  Not quite the Big East talent he was hoped to be.  Mbao washed out after one season at MU, where he reportedly didn't score his first basket in practice until sometime in January.

And please, this is not a criticism of Buzz--I would do EXACTLY the same thing, and I applaud him for taking a chance on a project.

My criticism is with the reality deniers who pretend that Buzz doesn't do what other coaches have done--take a chance on a project.

Roseboro was an abberation and a product of the situation Buzz and Company found themselves with in that first year. 

If two weeks was sufficient time for Buzz to figure out that Jimmy Butler was a good player, then  seven months (Roseboro signed November of 2008, as a 2009-10 frosh) should have been plenty of time for him to figure out Roseboro wasn't. 

[Lennys Tap]

Buzz's April signings also includes JFB and DJO. The only late signing contributor I recall from the previous regime was Marcus Jackson, who was okay but not great. Too many Niv Berkowitz types.

[4everwarriors]

Lenny Man, didn't Crean also gift us that gem, aka Trend?

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny Man, didn't Crean also gift us that gem, aka Trend?

When Lance Stemler said no Plan B was to be take the "next best" guy on that JC team - Trend Blackledge. He wasn't much of a prospect, but it was a lot less work than actually recruiting multiple "real players" simultaneously. Thankfully that's no longer our recruiting model.

[Marquette84]

Buzz's April signings also includes JFB and DJO. The only late signing contributor I recall from the previous regime was Marcus Jackson, who was okay but not great. Too many Niv Berkowitz types.

The point Tulsa made was that Buzz didn't miss when it came to late season signings.  Clearly, that was incorrect.

BTW, Robert Jackson was also a late season get for Crean--I'd put him ahead of Butler and DJO right now.  Jamil Wilson has the potential to get there, but not there yet.

I think the other observation--for what its worth--is that for as successful as Buzz has been late, Crean was more successful in the fall signing period.  Buzz's best recruits (DJO, Butler, Crowder) committed late--Crean's best (Novak, Diener, Wade, the Amigos) all committed early.

[marquette99]

To get back to bryant, what I am so impressed about is the fact that we seem to be in play nationally - because there just isn't enough talent in the contiguous states.  If we sign bryant when he apparently has the option of playing acc ball in his home town for a team that looked great in the tourney or va tech; or go to the sec to get immediate time at auburn or play for an athletic. Up and coming georgia team, or go to houston, then recruits everywhere nust really be viewing mu very favorably.  We definitely want to be able to tap into florida, having already tapped california, virginia, etc.

From a roster persepctive, we do still need fouls to give underneath with crowder and davante likely to foul some with having to guard bigger players, and otule having to foul some as all shot blockers do.

Agreed prob a year in weight room before he is a big contributor, but he could have some key contributions in certain games, just like davante did.

[Marquette84]

When Lance Stemler said no Plan B was to be take the "next best" guy on that JC team - Trend Blackledge. He wasn't much of a prospect, but it was a lot less work than actually recruiting multiple "real players" simultaneously. Thankfully that's no longer our recruiting model.

Sort of like taking the teammate of Joe Fulce?  Hmm.  Who was "next best" on Joe's team?  Oh, yeah!  Jimmy Butler.

Butler and Blackledge were both similarly rated out of HS.
Both were honorable mention JUCO All-Americans
Both on teams that featured other players we liked better.  

Wow--that's some change in recruiting tactics.


Frankly, the only thing that has changed here is your argument. Do you recall what you wrote when you were making the case about how Buzz had less talent in 2010 than on Crean's worst team?  

You were talking down Butler, telling me how terrible he was--wasn't even ranked in the top 300 out of HS.  

Today your argument is that Buzz knew that Butler was a pretty good player all along.

[Lennys Tap]

Sort of like taking the teammate of Joe Fulce?  Hmm.  Who was "next best" on Joe's team?  Oh, yeah!  Jimmy Butler.

Butler and Blackledge were both similarly rated out of HS.
Both were honorable mention JUCO All-Americans
Both on teams that featured other players we liked better.  

Wow--that's some change in recruiting tactics.


Frankly, the only thing that has changed here is your argument. Do you recall what you wrote when you were making the case about how Buzz had less talent in 2010 than on Crean's worst team?  

You were talking down Butler, telling me how terrible he was--wasn't even ranked in the top 300 out of HS.  

Today your argument is that Buzz knew that Butler was a pretty good player all along.

So TC and Buzz used the exact same recruiting tactics and signed equally talented players (according to you). Crean coached his guy into total obscurity. Buzz coached his guy to a likely NBA career. Can't wait for you to (belatedly) admit MU got a major upgrade when we got Buzz.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So TC and Buzz used the exact same recruiting tactics and signed equally talented players (according to you). Crean coached his guy into total obscurity. Buzz coached his guy to a likely NBA career. Can't wait for you to (belatedly) admit MU got a major upgrade when we got Buzz.

DWade says hi, gave another shout out tonight....

[Lennys Tap]

DWade says hi, gave another shout out tonight....

Has there ever, in the history of college basketball, been a coach who owes more to one player than TC does to Wade? Half a point higher on his ACT and Wade never even considers MU - and TC is following Mike Deane's footsteps at Wagner or Lamar.

[MU_Iceman]

I keep thinking they will sign Juniors Canadian friend for 1 year who is going to graduate school.  Good choice

I must have missed this...who's this kid and what's his deal?

[Marquette84]

So TC and Buzz used the exact same recruiting tactics and signed equally talented players (according to you).
Crean coached his guy into total obscurity. Buzz coached his guy to a likely NBA career. Can't wait for you to (belatedly) admit MU got a major upgrade when we got Buzz.

I'm happy to admit that Crean coached Blackledge into total obscurity.  But I'm also going to give him credit for developing Wade out of total obscurity into the greatest player in MU history.

I'm happy to admit that Buzz coached Butler into an outstanding player.  I'm also going to call him on making one of the biggest errors of recruiting judgement in MU history by thinking that Roseboro was Big East talent.

I understand that all coaches have hits and misses.  Crean had both.  Buzz had both.  Every coach does.

I just don't try to define one coach only by his misses, and define the next only by his successes.

You want to be fair--fine--Compare Butler to Wade.  Compare DJO to Matthews.  Compare Crowder to Noavk.  Then compare Blackledege to Roseboro, Menard to Mbao, Amo to Maymon.

If you weren't trying to hard to filter everything through the agenda of pretending that Buzz is a major upgrade, you wouldn't make such obvious contradictions and double standards that occupy virtually every one of your posts.

Butler is a great example.  One minute you claim that Butler is an example of Buzz's outstanding recruiting eye.  The next you're claiming that Buzz pulled a coaching miracle out of his hat in 2010 using less-talented recruits like Butler.

Bottom line is that the same head coach Jimmy Butler and Brett Roseboro.  Neither Butler nor Roseboro alone define Buzz's recruiting.  So please, stop with the fiction that Blackledge defines Crean's recruiting.

[Marquette84]

Has there ever, in the history of college basketball, been a coach who owes more to one player than TC does to Wade? Half a point higher on his ACT and Wade never even considers MU - and TC is following Mike Deane's footsteps at Wagner or Lamar.

Al McGuire owes just as much to George Thompson.

If Al doesn't convince George Thompson to come to Marquette, he's out after 4 years with four straight losing seasons.

[Lennys Tap]

Al McGuire owes just as much to George Thompson.

If Al doesn't convince George Thompson to come to Marquette, he's out after 4 years with four straight losing seasons.

Huh? Four straight losing seasons? MU was 5-21 the year before Al arrived. MU improved to 8-18 Al's first year and had a WINNING season, 14-12, WITHOUT George in year two. In year three we were NIT runnerups and George was neither our leading scorer or rebounder. George was a great beginning, and as good or better players (Meminger, Chones, Lucas, Lee, Ellis) followed.

TC hit a tape measure homerun with Wade (aided by the 50 mph wind of his academic ineligibility with BCS schools) and settled for doubles (Diener, Novak, James, etc) or worse thereafter. Al followed his first homerun (hit against the winds of Marquette's recent 5-21 season) and continued hitting them until he retired.

So you start by misstating the facts and draw baseless, ridiculous conclusions from them. Well done.

[PBRme]

I can't believe there are still scoopers that don't have 84 on ignore.

[Marquette84]

Huh? Four straight losing seasons? MU was 5-21 the year before Al arrived. MU improved to 8-18 Al's first year and had a WINNING season, 14-12, WITHOUT George in year two. In year three we were NIT runnerups and George was neither our leading scorer or rebounder. George was a great beginning, and as good or better players (Meminger, Chones, Lucas, Lee, Ellis) followed.

Heh!

You completely forgot that freshmen were on campus and practiced with the varsity back then, didn't you?

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/111379684.html
From the man himself during his freshman year: "We would play against the varsity in practice"

You're free to disagree, but I think the presence of Thompson in practice for the 1965-66 team helped the varsity improve by more than just a couple of wins that year.

Great players make everyone around them better--and includes practice.

So now you have a choice--

You could have the cojones to state that you don't think that Thompson's presence in practice helped to improve the varsity team one iota.

Or you can apologize and admit that you forgot that Thompson was around as a frosh.

Either way, my argument wasn't baseless.  Without Thompson, I don't think we have a winning season in Al's second year, the pipeline to NYC doesn't open up, and we have four straight losing seasons.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Has there ever, in the history of college basketball, been a coach who owes more to one player than TC does to Wade? Half a point higher on his ACT and Wade never even considers MU - and TC is following Mike Deane's footsteps at Wagner or Lamar.

It's a shame to watch MU alums continue to crap on Dwyane Wade for him feeling that TC was a wonderful coach and someone he still leans on to this day.  I find it rather sad watching MU alums do this like you just did.  Backhand attacks at Wade like that are really not necessary.  Essentially saying that Wade is a moron for not seeing things about TC the way YOU see them.  Pretty sad.

[brewcity77]

Any hope of us talking about Chris Bryant? Is there any more recent info that indicates either we have offered him or that he is more seriously considering Marquette? While he may be a bit thin, the idea of an actual face-up power forward wouldn't be a bad thing. He may not be rated like Alex Poythress or Jarnell Stokes, but he at least seems to play the style that we are all hoping for.

[Marquette84]

Any hope of us talking about Chris Bryant? Is there any more recent info that indicates either we have offered him or that he is more seriously considering Marquette? While he may be a bit thin, the idea of an actual face-up power forward wouldn't be a bad thing. He may not be rated like Alex Poythress or Jarnell Stokes, but he at least seems to play the style that we are all hoping for.

I hope we get him if he's the best available player we can land.
 
I think its stupid to "bank" a scholarship--especially with the number of injuries, transfers, ineligibility, etc that can happen to any player on any team.

And if we do take Bryant and he doesn't pan out, I'm not going to single Bryant out as the definition of Buzz's recruiting.

[augoman]

'84, I don't want to get involved w/ the current conversation, but must point out one thing.  I watched Dwade at open scrimmage the fall before his ineligible freshman year..., and he was unstoppable.  To say anyone coached him out of obscurity is absurd.  Our best players couldn't begin to stop him- before anyone had a chance to coach him.  In fact, the only one that could keep him under 30 points was TC, and he did so regularly after he became eligible.

[Marquette84]

'84, I don't want to get involved w/ the current conversation, but must point out one thing.  I watched Dwade at open scrimmage the fall before his ineligible freshman year..., and he was unstoppable.  To say anyone coached him out of obscurity is absurd.  Our best players couldn't begin to stop him- before anyone had a chance to coach him.  In fact, the only one that could keep him under 30 points was TC, and he did so regularly after he became eligible.

And who would Wade have been playing against in the fall before his ineligible freshman year?  Deane's holdovers, plus newcomers Blankson, Sanders and and Merritt?

I would expect Wade to be unstoppable in that environment--as would be most top 100 guards.  

When playing against comparable competition, he was 7th in Mr. Basketball voting in Illinois, and not among the top 100 players nationally per the RSCI.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I can't believe there are still scoopers that don't have 84 on ignore.

+1,000,000