Yellow Chair blog on Crean

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://yellow-chair-sports.blogspot.com/2007/03/crean-to-somewhere-else-i-wouldnt-blame.html

[ozmetal71]

Great stuff Chicos.....I love the point about way too many people in our fanbase being stuck in the 1970s....just look at the cavalier comments by some that "people will be lining up" for the Marquette job.  Marquette is not an elite program and hasn't been since 1977.  Crean is taking the program back to being a perennial NCAA tournament team, and a Big East contender.

He's certainly not without his flaws(uneven recruiting, game prep, and ineffective offensive schemes), but who else would be a better fit for Marquette at this point?

People need to realize that it is not 1977 and the college basketball landscape is totally different than the McGuire era, and to compare the two coaches is silly since they coach in totally different eras.  Also, for the instant gratification crowd, I think a Final Four appearance and four NCAAs out of six years is pretty good post-season success.

[The Lens]

1st of all, to say fans are calling for his head is a gross exaggeration.  A few internet dorks have made posts.  This isn't like UK where the admin is being pressured by boosters and Tip-Off clubs etc.  It's a few guys who hide behind message board handles.  Has a major media member whispered one thing?  I think we're giving 4everwarriors (whose passion I love) a little too much credit.  The vulchers are hardly circling

2nd of all, OZ71...to say this is a not an elite job is a slap in the face of Coach Crean and the current staff.

Lets see:

Top of the line practice facilities
Top of the line game facilities
Above average assistant coaches budget
Above average operating budget
Athletics support staff that treat Men's Hoops as #1 program
Top dollar paid to head coach
Way above average attendence
Top of the line conference
Proven ability to compete at the highest levels
Proven ability to be able to generate tons of publicity (GameDay, Seth Davis, Jay Bilas etc)
Regular inclusion into made for TV pre season tourneys
Admin that lets coach call the shots
No Football coach to cramp your salary


I'd say, MU offers quite a bit.  I think MU fans have an inferiotity complex...this gig isn't as bad as you think.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Damon

Some sites actually suggest "well heeled" backers are upset.  On this site we've had people say former members of the 1977 team are upset, etc, etc.

Now, is there credibility in these folks...who the hell knows.  I think a lot of people are just amazed it is even coming up.

My UCLA contingent out here is dumbfounded by some of the stuff they read here and on the message boards.  As they so honestly stated today..."it's Marquette for Christ sake, not UCLA...you guys should be damn giddy to have that good of a coach and that good of a program and NCAAs" just about every year."

I may not totally buy into that, but they aren't that far off either.  There are a few programs that can just change out a coach whenever they want.  There are other very good programs (MU being one of them) that coach changes present a lot more risk.  The fact that anyone is even suggesting it, internet dorks or not, is a bit beyond the pale.

[Chili]

Marquette is not an elite job.

The only elite programs are:

Duke
Kansas
North Carolina
UCLA
Kentucky

Top Tier Programs

Indiana
UCONN
Florida
Arizona
Michigan State

Elite programs get kids just of who they are.
The Top Tier programs are just behind the elite ones (I think Indiana was elite, but slipped a bit)

Marquette is in neither of these tiers yet.

They are in the next tier as programs that could rise up, but could also fall back down if there are big changes. Just look at Cincinnati.

[Big Papi]

1st of all, to say fans are calling for his head is a gross exaggeration.  A few internet dorks have made posts.  This isn't like UK where the admin is being pressured by boosters and Tip-Off clubs etc.  It's a few guys who hide behind message board handles.  Has a major media member whispered one thing?  I think we're giving 4everwarriors (whose passion I love) a little too much credit.  The vulchers are hardly circling

2nd of all, OZ71...to say this is a not an elite job is a slap in the face of Coach Crean and the current staff.

Lets see:

Top of the line practice facilities
Top of the line game facilities
Above average assistant coaches budget
Above average operating budget
Athletics support staff that treat Men's Hoops as #1 program
Top dollar paid to head coach
Way above average attendence
Top of the line conference
Proven ability to compete at the highest levels
Proven ability to be able to generate tons of publicity (GameDay, Seth Davis, Jay Bilas etc)
Regular inclusion into made for TV pre season tourneys
Admin that lets coach call the shots
No Football coach to cramp your salary


I'd say, MU offers quite a bit.  I think MU fans have an inferiotity complex...this gig isn't as bad as you think.

I guess I am going to slap TC's face because we are not an elite program.  Elite programs to me are Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky and Michigan State and maybe a few others.   They are teams that for the most part always make the NCAA tourny.  Have success in the tournys and as Al would say, they select players instead of recruit players.  We have had none of that over the last 20 some years.  

The list that you mention certainly can help a program become elite but a program can not become elite over night.  It takes years.  Unfortunately some posters here expect us to be elite because our coach is well paid.  Maybe he is well paid because he has taken a program that was average and trending downwards to a program that is inching a lot closer to eventually becoming an elite program.   That is why I am thrilled with the job that TC has done up until this point in time.  He is far from perfect but a lot of items on your list are from TC's hard work and the admin's faith in TC.    

[SoCalwarrior]

Sorry Chicos, that blog post is just more B.S. Whoever wrote it probably reads the boards where 50 pros take on one con and says, "wow, there's a movement to fire Crean."  More lazy opinions.

After wins you get praised, after losses you get criticized.  We ended the season on a sour note, so we're left with more of the latter.  But, let's stop taking one guy's drive-by demand to fire Crean and lump it together with the rest of us who are dissappointed with how the season ended.

[mu_hilltopper]

Winner winner, chicken dinner, Socal. 

"Lazy opinions" .. I might have to use that a few 100 more times.

[The Lens]

1st of all, to say fans are calling for his head is a gross exaggeration.  A few internet dorks have made posts.  This isn't like UK where the admin is being pressured by boosters and Tip-Off clubs etc.  It's a few guys who hide behind message board handles.  Has a major media member whispered one thing?  I think we're giving 4everwarriors (whose passion I love) a little too much credit.  The vulchers are hardly circling

2nd of all, OZ71...to say this is a not an elite job is a slap in the face of Coach Crean and the current staff.

Lets see:

Top of the line practice facilities
Top of the line game facilities
Above average assistant coaches budget
Above average operating budget
Athletics support staff that treat Men's Hoops as #1 program
Top dollar paid to head coach
Way above average attendence
Top of the line conference
Proven ability to compete at the highest levels
Proven ability to be able to generate tons of publicity (GameDay, Seth Davis, Jay Bilas etc)
Regular inclusion into made for TV pre season tourneys
Admin that lets coach call the shots
No Football coach to cramp your salary


I'd say, MU offers quite a bit.  I think MU fans have an inferiotity complex...this gig isn't as bad as you think.

I guess I am going to slap TC's face because we are not an elite program.  Elite programs to me are Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky and Michigan State and maybe a few others.   They are teams that for the most part always make the NCAA tourny.  Have success in the tournys and as Al would say, they select players instead of recruit players.  We have had none of that over the last 20 some years.  

The list that you mention certainly can help a program become elite but a program can not become elite over night.  It takes years.  Unfortunately some posters here expect us to be elite because our coach is well paid.  Maybe he is well paid because he has taken a program that was average and trending downwards to a program that is inching a lot closer to eventually becoming an elite program.   That is why I am thrilled with the job that TC has done up until this point in time.  He is far from perfect but a lot of items on your list are from TC's hard work and the admin's faith in TC.    

I'm not saying we're an elite program but we are a very very very good job.  How many other schools pay what we pay?  Money doesn't cure all but it cures 95% of it.  MU offers a lot to coaches.

Here's my thinking...

In 1994 we lost KO to Tennessee.  At the time they paid more, had better facilities, a better conf etc. Now if we ever lost TC to UK, MSU or the NBA one of the first places I would go would be Tennessee to get Bruce Pearl.  I believe MU is now a better job than UT.  You may disagree but I believe that.  Short of recruiting limitations due to academics MU has an adge over UT in nearly every category. 

I think Tennessee is representative of manu schools that MU has surpassed.  Finally, this isn't to say I expect Sweet 16 runs or even the NCAAs each year, rather I just feel that attracting a top of the line coach wouldn't be as hard as so many "woe is us" fans would have you believe.

[bma725]

You're kidding yourself if you think the donors that shell out the big money for TC would do it for Pearl.  Everybody likes to talk about how they were willing to spend the money, but a large portion of that was because of the kind of guy TC is.  He's always been able to schmooze the powerful people in ways that Pearl can't, he's always been looked at as an upstanding guy and Pearl hasn't.  Pearl for all he did for UWM while he was in Milwaukee, also made a lot of enemies within the MU community during that time.  And there are a lot of powerful people within MU that would want nothing to do with him.

[The Lens]

Those donors do what they do b/c they want to win at the current time they feel TC is the best way to accomplish that.  Bruce knows how to schmooze with best of them. 

The Bucks traded Kareem, Shaq's on his 3rd team, Pitino is coaching Louisville, Clemens pitched for the Yankees.  A lot of crazy things happen in sports when people get it in their heads they want to win. 

Plus my point was to show how far MU has come in terms of now besting a prominent SEC school. 

[bma725]

Those donors do what they do b/c they want to win at the current time they feel TC is the best way to accomplish that.  Bruce knows how to schmooze with best of them. 

Plus my point was to show how far MU has come in terms of now besting a prominent SEC school. 

Bruce would never get the chance to schmooze, that's my point.  The reaction to him is so strong that there are some people that would rather have MU suffer than have Pearl as coach.  He may be a great coach and have a great media face, but outside of that he's rubbed far too many MU people the wrong way for him to ever be coach.

I'd agree with your point though, that MU has bested an SEC school in the area's listed...though I don't know that Tennessee was really considered prominent for men's b-ball until Pearl got there.  In many people's minds they were on the same level as the bottom feeders in the SEC west.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sorry Chicos, that blog post is just more B.S. Whoever wrote it probably reads the boards where 50 pros take on one con and says, "wow, there's a movement to fire Crean."  More lazy opinions.

After wins you get praised, after losses you get criticized.  We ended the season on a sour note, so we're left with more of the latter.  But, let's stop taking one guy's drive-by demand to fire Crean and lump it together with the rest of us who are dissappointed with how the season ended.

You might be right, I hope you are.  I would only argue it's not "one guy's" drive by.  Tough to tell on message boards, but I would put the number closer to a vocal 10 to 15 (Dodds board, this board, Journal Sentinel board) and who knows beyond that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I concur that Pearl would NEVER get a chance...too much dirty underwear and way too many personal animosities.

He's a helluva coach....but.....

[mviale]

Who is Bruce Pearl?

[Chili]

Also, when referring to the big name donors, you can drop the "s" and make it donor - since most of TC's salary is funded by one individual along with his fringe benefits.

[DAtruth]

ill admit i have been critical of tc..but in no way would i fire him for any reason...if he leaves thats another story but theres no way he gets fired..also i believe marquette is an elite program but at the same time has many issues..good pay..mony in back pocket..great student section and great facilities..however getting young athletes to come to milwaukee where..lets be honest in basketball season its down right cold..dewayne wade wasnt a top 5 recruit..how soon we forget he was considered a project..as are all the kids on this years team and next years as well..i think he does a great job recruiting..he finds talent towards the bottom 100 and beyond develops it to his liking..i believe its at least a 3 year process..problem is a few here and there arent going to develope like as you would like them to..                                                                                       
heres something interesting..guy who got fired from iu has 1 player in the nba..guy that took his job..has 1 less..tc has 3...all considered projects..kind of interesting when you look at it that way..davis always got GREAT recruits..they just didnt come along..5 yrs ago d.j. white was #1 and thought to be what greg oden is..stuff happens that you cant control as a coach

[ChicosBailBonds]

Also, when referring to the big name donors, you can drop the "s" and make it donor - since most of TC's salary is funded by one individual along with his fringe benefits.

He's a strong donor I hear

[MarquetteVol]

The only thing complaining about Tom Crean could possibly - and I emphasize possibly - accomplishment is to drive him to leave MU for another job. He's not going to be dismissed, because the money it would take to buy him out would be ridiculous. And, if TC leaves for Michigan or Kentucky or wherever, it's inevitable that MU will once again be viewed as a stepping-stone job. I for one, am very happy we've moved past that label. On top of that, I'm very happy that Tom Crean is our coach. But in the end, it doesn't matter what the hell I think. And it doesn't really matter what any of you think either...unless one of you has a much larger bank account than you're letting on to.

It's been great that we've been able to keep a winning coach at Marquette for 8 years. That's pretty rare nowadays with the annual coaching carousels and Andy Katz insider reports. I believe the longer Crean is here, the more likely we are to once again compete at the highest level. It took Jim Boeheim countless years and some serious unrest in the fan base to win the whole thing. The lesson is patience. We're better off now than we were 8 years ago, in 2003 we were in a better situation than we had been in 25 years, and and I bet we're going to be better off next year than we were during this last campaign. With the exception of the two down years post-2003, which were largely due to the DWade's improbable rise and some untimely injuries and tough breaks, we've been making progress throughout TC's entire tenure. It may not be happening fast enough for many of us, but it's progress.

Don't get me wrong. I was disappointed with how the year ended like everyone else who's a true MU fan. But, this has been a fun ride.

[dwaderoy2004]

boeheim is a pretty good example i think.  he has been at syracuse now for 31 years.  it took him ELEVEN years to reach his first final four.  it took him 9 more years to get back to a final four, and 27 years to win his first national championship.  he has taken them to 11 sweet sixteens, which is about 33% of the time.  pretty good, but i would bet that crean can and will match that percentage if given 23 more years to do so.  i love crean, and i'm not really saying there are a lot of people here who feel differently than i do, just somethign to chew on...