Vote: If UW-m beat Butler in the Horizon League conference championship ...

[Tugg Speedman]

I voted UW-m takes VCU's spot

[madtownwarrior]

UW-M would not have made it out of the first round much less get to the semi's...

[Markusquette]

UW-M would not have made it out of the first round much less get to the semi's...

Very unlikely, but you never know.  They beat Butler both times during the regular season and one was a blowout (yeah they lost in the conf. tourney).  VCU made the final 4 in case you forgot. 

[GGGG]

Butler was injured both times that UWM beat them.

[martyconlonontherun]

You guys didn't read the original question.

[Mr. Nielsen]

UW-M would not have made it out of the first round much less get to the semi's...

and you had Butler in the title game. 

[Mr. Nielsen]

Butler was injured both times that UWM beat them.

Butler had every player in both games versus the Panthers as they do right now. UWM was big-time banged up and had a sick player when the Panthers won at Butler.

The game in Milwaukee, the Panthers were on fire! They won by 24 points, could've been 30.

[Skatastrophy]

Butler had every player in both games versus the Panthers as they do right now. UWM was big-time banged up and had a sick player when the Panthers won at Butler.

The game in Milwaukee, the Panthers were on fire! They won by 24 points, could've been 30.

Both Butler and UCONN have been playing on a different level than they did in the regular season, though.

MU wouldn't beat UCONN now and UW-M wouldn't beat Butler.  They're both buzz-saws at this point.

[brewcity77]

If UW-M beat Butler, they would have been in as a 15 seed and would have been destroyed in the first round. It's delusional to think that Milwaukee would have had an 11 seed or an 8 seed like VCU or Butler. Of course, Butler would have likely been dropped a couple seed lines, probably down to a 10 or 11. It would have completely changed their path, who knows if they even make it to the Sweet 16, much less the Final Four.

For Butler, this tournament was all about match-ups and momentum. Yes, they are a good team, but I'm still of the opinion that they aren't one of the top 10 teams in the nation. They got the good fortune of facing teams like ODU, Pitt, Wisconsin, and Florida, all teams that slow the pace of the game down. Look at the adjusted tempo ratings of their NCAA opponents:

Old Dominion: 332
Pittsburgh: 314
Wisconsin: 344
Florida: 290
VCU: 196

What happens if they end up against someone like Washington in the second round, or North Carolina in the third, or if they only drop one seed line and face Kansas or Duke in round 3? Butler got a godsend in terms of the pace of their opponents because none of those teams play at the kind of pace that would ever challenge Butler by running them off the floor. Of Butler's 9 losses, 7 came to teams with a top-140 adjusted tempo. In their current 14-game winning streak, only one team (Detroit - 24) plays with an adjusted tempo in the top 170 in the country. You beat Butler by outrunning them.

Unfortunately for UConn, their strategy plays right into Butler's hands. They have an adjusted tempo of 228. Don't be surprised to see the Bulldogs complete their 2-year Cinderella journey on Monday, UConn plays at a perfect pace to allow them to do it.

[madtownwarrior]

the long version on "UW-M would not have made it out of the first round"

If UW-M beat Butler, they would have been in as a 15 seed and would have been destroyed in the first round. It's delusional to think that Milwaukee would have had an 11 seed or an 8 seed like VCU or Butler. Of course, Butler would have likely been dropped a couple seed lines, probably down to a 10 or 11. It would have completely changed their path, who knows if they even make it to the Sweet 16, much less the Final Four.

For Butler, this tournament was all about match-ups and momentum. Yes, they are a good team, but I'm still of the opinion that they aren't one of the top 10 teams in the nation. They got the good fortune of facing teams like ODU, Pitt, Wisconsin, and Florida, all teams that slow the pace of the game down. Look at the adjusted tempo ratings of their NCAA opponents:

Old Dominion: 332
Pittsburgh: 314
Wisconsin: 344
Florida: 290
VCU: 196

What happens if they end up against someone like Washington in the second round, or North Carolina in the third, or if they only drop one seed line and face Kansas or Duke in round 3? Butler got a godsend in terms of the pace of their opponents because none of those teams play at the kind of pace that would ever challenge Butler by running them off the floor. Of Butler's 9 losses, 7 came to teams with a top-140 adjusted tempo. In their current 14-game winning streak, only one team (Detroit - 24) plays with an adjusted tempo in the top 170 in the country. You beat Butler by outrunning them.

Unfortunately for UConn, their strategy plays right into Butler's hands. They have an adjusted tempo of 228. Don't be surprised to see the Bulldogs complete their 2-year Cinderella journey on Monday, UConn plays at a perfect pace to allow them to do it.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Both Butler and UCONN have been playing on a different level than they did in the regular season, though.

MU wouldn't beat UCONN now and UW-M wouldn't beat Butler.  They're both buzz-saws at this point.

Well, MU did beat UConn and maybe should've won at the BC. UWM beat Butler twice and lost in the all important HL Title game.

The fact of the matter is the door is open for MU & UWM to make a Final Four. If VCU and Butler (twice) can do it, why not anyone else? I get it, it's a HUGE if. 

[Skatastrophy]

The fact of the matter is the door is open for MU & UWM to make a Final Four. If VCU and Butler (twice) can do it, why not anyone else? I get it, it's a HUGE if. 

I think everyone would agree with that.  Just being in the tournament gives you a shot.  You just have to get hot at the right time

[Mr. Nielsen]

I think everyone would agree with that.  Just being in the tournament gives you a shot.  You just have to get hot at the right time

Correct, that's all I'm saying.

There is a fine line of winning and losing in the toury as well. UK & Butler needed last second shots to win it's opening game versus Princeton and ODU. You need some luck as well.