Author Topic: Does the advancement of VCU and Butler change your opinion on 96 teams? (Read 8451 times)

ChicosBailBonds · « **on:** March 28, 2011, 12:11:26 AM »

I'm just curious how people think on this. One could argue that this is ammunition to give more mid majors and more teams the chance at the tournament.

VCU was widely panned as a team that shouldn't even have gotten in, and here they are 5 wins later playing in the Final Four. MU, 9th place team in the Sweet 16. Butler, if they had lost to UW-Milwaukee in the Horizon would have probably made it but it would have been close. I watched Alabama and Washington State the other day in the NIT, two pretty solid clubs with some length that would have been problematic.

I figure most people will say no, but it would have been a shame to miss what these two schools have done. You have to wonder what other great runs have we missed in the past because teams were left out.

The argument that these teams can't make a deep run is out the door. Just as the argument that non BCS teams can't compete with the big boys has been totally obliterated the last few years by Boise State, TCU, etc.

MarquetteDano · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2011, 12:36:34 AM »

I have to say from a tournament standpoint, it is a good argument. I am one of the "keep the teams at 68 or around there" group but this year proved that going to 68 made a difference. I really believe had only 65 made it this year, VCU would not be in the Final Four.

I am just not sure this offsets the regular season downsides of so many teams making the tourney and making the regular season so much more anti-climatic. Plus seeing some really mediocre teams get in around the 85-96 rank range.

But I must say however, this year at least, 68 was better than 65.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2011, 02:04:10 AM »

Meh. Can see the argument, but there was so much parity in college basketball the year. Most years there are at least a few great teams, when this year there was maybe one. It would make for some boring first few rounds some years.

Brewtown Andy · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2011, 02:06:48 AM »

I still say that the expansion to 96 story was a smokescreen so they could go to 68 and no one would complain when they pull an at large bid to give the Great West an autobid next year.

willie warrior · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2011, 06:15:51 AM »

People can make all the arguments they want to stay at 68, which by the way many did not like. But when a team like VCU gets in when many experts said they should not, then it is just a matter of time before the powers that be go to 96.

Let's face it, most years the top 20 are the only teams that have a realistic chance of winning--not always but most of the time--so why let 44 more in? Might as well open it to 96, becuase there is not much difference from 64 to 96 anyhow, interms of chance to win.

More money for NCAA, more opportunities for the fans, etc.

It sure as hell will be a 5 page bracket, however!!!

Tugg Speedman · « **Reply #5 on:** March 28, 2011, 06:38:14 AM »

I thought 96 tams meant LESS money per team. More money overall but not enough when split 96 ways.

I also thought that 96 teams meant doing away with Conference tourneys to make room in the schedule. Then the regular season winner gets the automatic bid.

Am I correct on these stipulations? If so, does they change your view of 96 teams.

MerrittsMustache · « **Reply #6 on:** March 28, 2011, 06:55:09 AM »

IMO, this decreases the chances of tournament expansion. The NCAA is run by, and for, the big name, money-making schools, not the VCUs and Butlers of the world. It's a nice story to have two mid-majors in the Final Four, but the NCAA would have much rather had Kansas and Florida because those schools garner more attention and bring in more money. Fans can claim that they like seeing small schools reach the Final Four, but the ratings will likely dictate otherwise.

Brewtown Andy · « **Reply #7 on:** March 28, 2011, 07:38:30 AM »

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 28, 2011, 06:55:09 AM

IMO, this decreases the chances of tournament expansion. The NCAA is run by, and for, the big name, money-making schools, not the VCUs and Butlers of the world. It's a nice story to have two mid-majors in the Final Four, but the NCAA would have much rather had Kansas and Florida because those schools garner more attention and bring in more money. Fans can claim that they like seeing small schools reach the Final Four, but the ratings will likely dictate otherwise.

I would be surprised to find out that the advertising rates really suffer that much. NCAA already has 3 corporate partners for the tournament and you can consider CBS & Turner a 4th & 5th as far as advertising during the Final Four, so there's a large block of advertising already taken up.

MUMac · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2011, 07:38:57 AM »

Nope. Good story, but a once in a lifetime type of run. No need to dilute it any further.

KenoshaWarrior · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2011, 07:41:40 AM »

No. and i am not sure how or why Butler gets into this argument anyways considering they were a 8 seed and safely in.

brewcity77 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2011, 07:50:54 AM »

I don't want further expansion. Despite their run, VCU still doesn't belong in this tournament based on their regular season body of work. What this proves is that there are still teams that are good around the 65-70 mark. Could Virginia Tech or Alabama have made the same run? Sure. But part of what makes Selection Sunday fun is the controversy of the last 4-6 teams in. The further out you go, the smaller the cries of protest will become. I think you either stay here or expand to either 256 or 320.

I also don't want to water down the accomplishment of getting in. Go to 96 and Seton Hall would have had an argument. Providence would have been in the picture. I'm glad that Marquette had to work at the end to get their spot. Our regular season slip-ups almost caught up with us and we had to win 5 of our last 7 to book a spot. That made
games against SHU and Providence that much more exciting. It makes 11 Big East teams (which would have happened even in a field of 64) that much more of an accomplishment.

All VCU proves us that there are still good teams at the end. I don't want the tourney to keep expanding just to find out at which point the true crap teams start.

bilsu · « **Reply #11 on:** March 28, 2011, 08:16:00 AM »

The trouble with making selections is that November and early December wins and losses matter when they are deciding who to let in. However, they are not a good indication of how good you are now. Throw out the early records and there is no way Villanova gets in. I think VCU winning gives a lot of value to the play in games. Eventually a 16 will beat a one seed. As long as Kentucky does not win, this is the best tournament ever.

DegenerateDish · « **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2011, 08:49:26 AM »

All that would do is mean adding 28 more teams that Barkley and Kenny Smith know nothing about.

martyconlonontherun · « **Reply #13 on:** March 28, 2011, 08:55:03 AM »

I may be in the minority, but I don't like it when the tourney is over run by Cinderella teams. I feel that makes the tourney more of a crap shoot and the best team is less likely to win. With 96 teams, it's hard to win 6 straight games no matter who you are. I want less luck and more talent in these tourneys.

swimmer · « **Reply #14 on:** March 28, 2011, 09:29:56 AM »

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on March 28, 2011, 08:55:03 AM

I may be in the minority, but I don't like it when the tourney is over run by Cinderella teams. I feel that makes the tourney more of a crap shoot and the best team is less likely to win. With 96 teams, it's hard to win 6 straight games no matter who you are. I want less luck and more talent in these tourneys.

I agree. The Cinderella story is nice when it's a rarity. If it becomes commonplace, it hurts the tournament because it cheapens the value of the championship.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2011, 09:37:21 AM »

One of my favorite notations from this morning's articles

"Two weeks ago #11 VCU didn't even bother watching the NCAA tournament invite opting to watch cartoons and go out for burgers while Kentucky spent 13 straight springs watching other schools play in the Final Four, a destination college basketball's winningest program considers its birthright. These 2 schools and their fans are heading to Houston for the Final Four."

Nukem2 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2011, 09:40:37 AM »

Leave the tourney as is. I would even go back to 65 teams. Expansion = dilution (and, ultimately, less $$$ in my estimation as the ratings would go down).

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2011, 09:47:49 AM »

Quote from: Brewtown Andy on March 28, 2011, 02:06:48 AM

I still say that the expansion to 96 story was a smokescreen so they could go to 68 and no one would complain when they pull an at large bid to give the Great West an autobid next year.

I assure you that was NOT the case. My company was involved in some of the bidding and 96 was VERY much in the discussion...no smokescreen at all.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2011, 09:48:42 AM »

Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 28, 2011, 06:38:14 AM

I thought 96 tams meant LESS money per team. More money overall but not enough when split 96 ways.

I also thought that 96 teams meant doing away with Conference tourneys to make room in the schedule. Then the regular season winner gets the automatic bid.

Am I correct on these stipulations? If so, does they change your view of 96 teams.

It's all based on the contract. If they go to 96 teams, it means more games on television which means more revenue for the NCAA.

79Warrior · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2011, 09:58:57 AM »

Once you go to 96, then the 97th and 98 teams bitch. it never ends. 68 is fine.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:09:36 AM »

Quote from: Nukem2 on March 28, 2011, 09:40:37 AM

Leave the tourney as is. I would even go back to 65 teams. Expansion = dilution (and, ultimately, less $$$ in my estimation as the ratings would go down).

Reality is that ratings are up this year WITH expansion

Up 17%

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/212456/NCAA_Tournament_Ratings_Up_17_Percent_

MU B2002 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:21:10 AM »

I know this is off topic...

I am a huge fan of the new TV format of the NCAAs. I know some people have had trouble with TRU TV coverage, but this is the first year I could watch any game I wanted without having to buy the direct TV March Madness package or go to a bar.

68 teams is enough.

ringout · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:27:59 AM »

I used to be against expansion, because of the dilution factor. Now I am beginning to think we should eliminate conference tournys and go to 256. (48 at large bids to the best teams, the rest play for the right to advance) The more games lesser seeds play, the better chance that better teams advance further.

I don't have a problem per se with Cinderellas advancing. It does add interest (I rooted for Butler in the championship game last year).

tower912 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:35:18 AM »

I actually had a co-worker, a Big 1? football fan, make the argument that this proves the BCS has got it right because none of these 4 teams is anywhere close to being the best team in the country, that at least the bowls make the best teams play each other to see who is best. I just shook my head in disgust. If VCU wins this thing, there will be books written about this tournament.

Brewtown Andy · « **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:49:09 AM »

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 28, 2011, 09:37:21 AM

One of my favorite notations from this morning's articles

"Two weeks ago #11 VCU didn't even bother watching the NCAA tournament invite opting to watch cartoons and go out for burgers

I heard about that. Apparently Shaka Smart heard about it on the radio while in his office, and he's the one who ended up being the one who notified the AD.

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Author Topic: Does the advancement of VCU and Butler change your opinion on 96 teams? (Read 8451 times)