Beating UNC in 2011 vs. Beating UK in 2003 - Does that take us to the next step?

[Niv Berkowitz]

It could be argued - rightfully I think - that by beating #1 UK in 2003 to put us in the Final Four catapulted us into the national discussion of 'programs back from the brink'. (I'm not saying we were at the brink, but public perception being what it is...MU had not been in anyone's national discussion of college hoops since Al) This win got us into the Big East basically.

With all the disrespect being tossed MU's way of late - making MU seem like it's some job worse than Butler or OU - does beating UNC on Friday get us to the level of being part of the discussion nationally? What I mean by that is, does it FINALLY take us to a point where we won't continally be looked at some stepping stone program anymore, at least by more people than those that follow the sport for a living (Bilas, Raftery, etc.). Hell, I'd settle to be on par with Villanova.

Naturally, we have to beat UNC first. And our coach would need to stick around. Still, just shows how much could be on the game Friday.

Mods...discuss....

[Goose]

Niv---Great question. I thought the season after FF was key for building long term success and we stumbled a bit. I think if we win Friday and Buzz stays it is big step in right direction. If Buzz stays the expectations should be high next year. If they are met we looking good. But, this is ongoing process and we cannot afford major mistakes.

If we win and Buzz stays, really stays not just another year, it is big step in right direction.

[brewcity77]

It'd be a nice feather, but I don't think that does it. College basketball is so obsessive with the Final Four, I think that's what it would take. If we beat UNC and then either Kentucky or tOSU, then absolutely. But one win can be dismissed as a fluke. Two wins keeps people talking about us for another week, regardless of what happens in Houston. Until Buzz gets us to a Final Four, we won't bridge that gap. Even if we become a Sweet 16 regular with a few Elite 8s, we won't make the jump to being one of those national profile programs until we make it to that third weekend, we'll just be a team that gets close but can't quite get there.

[Doris Burkes Thong]

It'd be a nice feather, but I don't think that does it. College basketball is so obsessive with the Final Four, I think that's what it would take. If we beat UNC and then either Kentucky or tOSU, then absolutely. But one win can be dismissed as a fluke. Two wins keeps people talking about us for another week, regardless of what happens in Houston. Until Buzz gets us to a Final Four, we won't bridge that gap. Even if we become a Sweet 16 regular with a few Elite 8s, we won't make the jump to being one of those national profile programs until we make it to that third weekend, we'll just be a team that gets close but can't quite get there.

I definately agree with this. But in my own personal world if we beat UNC it would kinda feel like winning the national championship to me no matter what happens the rest of the way. Friday would be a monumental win in MU basketball history if they get it. It would be different if MU was a mainstay in the 2nd weekend and beyond every year of the tournament, but this is only our 2nd Sweet 16 in the last 15 years +. And that would mean we would have beaten a 2, 3, and 6 seed to get to the ELite Eight, which is really impressive.

[Niv Berkowitz]

It'd be a nice feather, but I don't think that does it. College basketball is so obsessive with the Final Four, I think that's what it would take. If we beat UNC and then either Kentucky or tOSU, then absolutely. But one win can be dismissed as a fluke. Two wins keeps people talking about us for another week, regardless of what happens in Houston. Until Buzz gets us to a Final Four, we won't bridge that gap. Even if we become a Sweet 16 regular with a few Elite 8s, we won't make the jump to being one of those national profile programs until we make it to that third weekend, we'll just be a team that gets close but can't quite get there.

This begs the question - would you rather have post-season success (swt 16/elite 8/fin.four 3 every six years) versus being top 3 in the conference during the same time, but only one elite eight. I'm thinking MSU (Post-season) vs. Texas (reg.season). Izzo has, I believe 8 seasons w/14 or more losses in the last 16 years (it's something like that I believe).

[HouWarrior]

No.

The purpose of play this weekend is to reach the final 4. THAT is THE  next step, and that truly would be special, just as the UK win you reference, in 2003.

Otherwise, you leave claiming sweet 16, or a sweet 16er who simply won another game. Elite 8 merely is a half step, like winning your first round game.

Because, historically, its the weekend conclusion that matters, the NCAA tourney markers of acheivement , are:

 1) making the tourney--"appearances" (selection Sunday-1st weekend success);

 2) "Sweet 16" (winning 2nd weekend);

3) "Final 4" (winning the 3rd weekend);

and

4) NCAA championship (winning 4th weekend)

Any thing less than these steps are not full steps to the key markers, but only half steps, ....markers used by the losers to attempt to mark their partial weekend acheivement.

...like , " UK Elite8 2003", or, "Kansas NCAA 2nd place 2003"(to your memory), or "UNC NCAA 2nd place 1977"( to my memory)---- all are lame.