Keno Davis On His Way Out

[Pakuni]

PC: a BB coaching graveyard.

Rick Pitino, Rick Barnes and Pete Gillen may beg to differ.

As for Keno, pretty sure MU never seriously spoke with him, much less offered him the job. There were some here who certainly wanted him in the discussion - and praised PC for hiring him - but I don't recall much of an outcry for him.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Well, maybe you can post the links to all those Davis supporters.

I looked, and I simply didn't find "quite a few" posts here that expressed support for Davis. At best, I found a handful of comments that suggested that we pulled the trigger too quickly and should have at least interviewed Davis--but that's a far cry from "everyone" being disappointed that we didn't hire him, as Another84 asserted.

I'm sorry, but the fact of the matter is that there simply wasn't the outpouring of love for Davis that you and Another84 suggest. 

I think your memory has been clouded by time.

It's easier to just say "everybody" and shove it in "everybody's" face.

Buzz Williams rules.

[4everwarriors]

Davis was coach of the the year at Drek before screwin' himself over by takin' this gig.

[willie warrior]

Crean to PC.

"It's Providence, it's Providence"

[GGGG]

Yeah I know he was coach of the year...in the MVC. Then they lost in the first round to WKU. And he took a job hundreds of miles away from his recruiting base. Good payday for him but my guess is that he's at Bradley next year which is probably where he belongs.

[Marquette84]

Rick Pitino, Rick Barnes and Pete Gillen may beg to differ.

As for Keno, pretty sure MU never seriously spoke with him, much less offered him the job. There were some here who certainly wanted him in the discussion - and praised PC for hiring him - but I don't recall much of an outcry for him.

Not to mention Dave Gavitt.  I think he did something meaningful after leaving PC.

Whatever happened to Marvin "Bad News" Barnes?

PC retired his jersey in 2009:
http://www.projo.com/pc/content/sp_bkc_pcjo09_03-09-08_JD9AE66_v6.33c34b2.html

It would have been extremely interesting had the Spirits of St. Louis been part of the ABA-NBA merger.  In addition to Barnes, they had some great basketball names--Maurice Lucas, Caldwell Jones, ML Carr, Don Chaney and Moses Malone--and Bob Costas doing the play-by-play.   

[groove]

Not to mention Dave Gavitt.  I think he did something meaningful after leaving PC.


PC retired his jersey in 2009:
http://www.projo.com/pc/content/sp_bkc_pcjo09_03-09-08_JD9AE66_v6.33c34b2.html

It would have been extremely interesting had the Spirits of St. Louis been part of the ABA-NBA merger.  In addition to Barnes, they had some great basketball names--Maurice Lucas, Caldwell Jones, ML Carr, Don Chaney and Moses Malone--and Bob Costas doing the play-by-play.   

thanks for the info. That would have been one bad-ass team in st. louis - a lot of hard fouls for sure - drive the lane at your own risk.  Of course, Barnes had that fear of flying out west because he thought that jet planes were time machines whenever your arrival time was before the departure time.

[ATWizJr]

Rick Pitino, Rick Barnes and Pete Gillen may beg to differ.

As for Keno, pretty sure MU never seriously spoke with him, much less offered him the job. There were some here who certainly wanted him in the discussion - and praised PC for hiring him - but I don't recall much of an outcry for him.

  Obviously, they got out, didn't they.  I think they agree with me. 

[Pakuni]

  Obviously, they got out, didn't they.  I think they agree with me. 

That makes no sense.
Obviously if these guys were able to have success at Providence and then move on to more presitgious and better paying positions, then it's anything but a graveyard.

[ATWizJr]

If it was such a great job they'd still be there. 

It was a different BE back then.  There are now 16 teams stretching into the midwest.  PC was the little school that slew the giants back then.  Now it's a small Catholic school with no football and without the resources (natural recruiting base and cash) to compete. 

Gillen, Barnes and Pitino got out when the getting was good.  Why do you think Davis has an 8 year deal?  PC has to overpay because of all the disadvantages. 

Now it's two coaches fired in 3 years.  Not that it can't be done.  But it's much harder to do at PC.

[TallTitan34]

Sportscenter says it is official.  He is out.

[4everwarriors]

So, what you're sayin' is there's a lot of similarities between PC and MU.

[willie warrior]

So much for the argument that the school needs to give a new coach at least 5 years. Obviously this Jesuit school did not think so. Some say he had 5 years left on his contract. Wow!

[MarquetteDano]

I think your memory has been clouded by time.

Classic insulting post by 84.  Just rude quite honestly.   

There were plenty of outlets linking Keno Davis to the Marquette job.  And, yes, there were people saying we should give him a look.

Anyway, I spent maybe 3 minutes looking up various places where people stated Davis as a potential candidate for the job plus posters who said we shoud look at him....

http://thewarrior.org/2008/04/01/april-fools-nope-player-confirms-crean-to-leave-marquette/
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8694.0
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8007.0
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31869834.html?page=1#comments
http://www.wisn.com/sports/15766396/detail.html
http://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/creanleaves.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's all about the situation.  We've been over this a million times.  If Keno comes to MU how does he do?  If Buzz goes to PC, how does he do?  If KO never left MU, what would have happened?  If MU hired someone other than Hank after Al left, what happens?  Impossible to tell.  This is idea that coach X was fired elsewhere so he wouldn't have done well here is pure speculation because no one knows that answer....and vice versa (see KO's career)

Bellichek went to Cleveland and they canned him 4 years later.  Did Bellichek suddenly become a better coach a few years later or was the situation different? 

Rumors of Sendek to PC and a few others out there.

[CTWarrior]

If you look back at the situation, you had one guy who was just named the National COY and another guy who left UNO after one less than sensational season and who wasn't accompanying Crean to IU for reasons we didn't know.  Of course at the time Davis would seem the more attractive candidate.  Of course fans would probably have rather seen him hired than Buzz, who we basically knew almost nothing about.  Fortunately (well I think most of us think fortunately) the administration did know about Buzz and I think they made a wise choice, though it is reasonable to argue with whatever selection process they used.

[Pakuni]

If you look back at the situation, you had one guy who was just named the National COY and another guy who left UNO after one less than sensational season and who wasn't accompanying Crean to IU for reasons we didn't know.

I think anyone who saw it that way was unwilling/unable to look at the situation very deeply. Keno was just as inexperienced as Buzz, and built his  rep on a magical season coaching a bunch of guys recruited and developed under his old man. He was no less of a gamble than Buzz.
And all indications are that Buzz would be accompanying Crean to IU had he not been offered the head coaching gig at MU.

[Marquette84]

Classic insulting post by 84.  Just rude quite honestly.   

There were plenty of outlets linking Keno Davis to the Marquette job.  And, yes, there were people saying we should give him a look.

Anyway, I spent maybe 3 minutes looking up various places where people stated Davis as a potential candidate for the job plus posters who said we shoud look at him....

http://thewarrior.org/2008/04/01/april-fools-nope-player-confirms-crean-to-leave-marquette/
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8694.0
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8007.0
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31869834.html?page=1#comments
http://www.wisn.com/sports/15766396/detail.html
http://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/creanleaves.html

At the risk of insulting you further, I see a big difference between each of these three positions:

a) identifying Keno Davis as a possible target
b) suggesting that Keno Davis should have at least been considered/interviewed
c) Expressing disappointment that Keno Davis turned us down.

Even the links you provide suggest that there were only a handful of people that preferred Davis--not a majority, and certainly not anywhere close to "everyone."

If you claim that you remember that "everyone" was disappointed, you're simply not remembering correctly.  I'm not trying to insult you--that's just a simple statement of fact.

Fact is, not everyone was disappointed that Davis wasn't hired, and some were pleased that Buzz was the choice.

 

[Pakuni]

It's all about the situation.  We've been over this a million times.  If Keno comes to MU how does he do?  If Buzz goes to PC, how does he do?  If KO never left MU, what would have happened?  If MU hired someone other than Hank after Al left, what happens?  Impossible to tell.  This is idea that coach X was fired elsewhere so he wouldn't have done well here is pure speculation because no one knows that answer....and vice versa (see KO's career)

Ummm ... obviously we can't say what Keno would have done at MU. But what we can say is he took over a difficult situation at PC three years ago and today leaves behind a even worse situation. When a program gets worse under a coach's tutelage, it's typically a sign that guy wasn't a very good coach.
 

Bellichek went to Cleveland and they canned him 4 years later.  Did Bellichek suddenly become a better coach a few years later or was the situation different?  

Yes, Belicheck has gone on record as saying he made plenty of mistakes at Cleveland and is today a better coach because of that experience. Do you believe he's the same coach today he was in Cleveland? Do you think the only difference between him today and him in 1995 is the situation he's in?
Also, it's not much of an analogy with Keno. Belicheck took over a team that had won three games the season before, doubled their win total the next year and had them 11-5 by his fourth season. Keno never showed that kind of improvement at PC.

[ATWizJr]

So much for the argument that the school needs to give a new coach at least 5 years. Obviously this Jesuit school did not think so. Some say he had 5 years left on his contract. Wow!

It's a Dominican school and it is 5 years.

[MarquetteDano]

Fact is, not everyone was disappointed that Davis wasn't hired, and some were pleased that Buzz was the choice.

I never stated everyone was disappointed that Davis wasn't hired.  I believe I said there were plenty of posts about him being hired.  I really don't think Another's posts was really stating that literally everyone was asking for him to be hired.  What he was stating that people did around here and elsewhere that should be looked at.  And that Buzz has worked out much better for us that Keno for Providence.

That is how I read his post.

You asked for examples and I gave them.  And now "fact is", you say, not everyone was disappointed that Davis wasn't hired.  I certainly would not argue that EVERYONE wanted Keno.  Though let's not pretend that nearly no one asked for him to be interviewed either.

[willie warrior]

I think this was just his third year, but not positive.

[ChicosBailBonds]

 
Yes, Belicheck has gone on record as saying he made plenty of mistakes at Cleveland and is today a better coach because of that experience. Do you believe he's the same coach today he was in Cleveland? Do you think the only difference between him today and him in 1995 is the situation he's in?
Also, it's not much of an analogy with Keno. Belicheck took over a team that had won three games the season before, doubled their win total the next year and had them 11-5 by his fourth season. Keno never showed that kind of improvement at PC.

The difference...a guy named Tom Brady.  He didn't have one of those in Cleveland.   Is he a better coach now than in Cleveland...sure hope so.  Experience does wonders for people.  Is he THAT much better or was the situation a lot different?  Better players, Hall of Fame QB, etc?  Note that Bill had one winning season in his career prior to Brady becoming a starter....coincidence?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Did anybody think Providence had some great talent? I actually did. Keno Davis was over his head, though. He took that Drake team, which was built by his father, on a nice run. But he was kind of like Mike Davis...not ready for prime time.

[Pakuni]

The difference...a guy named Tom Brady.  He didn't have one of those in Cleveland.   Is he a better coach now than in Cleveland...sure hope so.  Experience does wonders for people.  Is he THAT much better or was the situation a lot different?  Better players, Hall of Fame QB, etc?  Note that Bill had one winning season in his career prior to Brady becoming a starter....coincidence?

I don't want to turn this into a football debate, so I'll say one more thing and stop.
It goes without saying that a team with a HOF quarterback is going to fare better than one without.
That said, your "it's Tom Brady" argument would be much stronger had Belichick not gone 11-5 a few years back with Matt Cassell, who to that point had thrown a grand total of 39 NFL passes in three seasons of carrying a clipboard.
Remind me what this has to do with Keno? Are you suggesting it was the situation at Providence, and not how he administered the program, that's led to his firing?