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Author Topic: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership  (Read 7533 times)

ecompt

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The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« on: November 14, 2006, 11:03:17 AM »
This team has no leaders. DJ will be by the end of the year but not now. And Jerel is the second coming of Dameon. You have to play him but he will continue to infuriate you with some of the things he does. I fear that it may be a longer year than many hoped for.

Chili

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2006, 11:09:06 AM »
And Jerel is the second coming of Dameon.


On the offensive end I can see it, except Jerel plays D.
But I like to throw handfuls...

SoCalwarrior

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2006, 11:23:42 AM »
I agree with Chili.  McNeal does so much on defense and probably takes away more points than he gives away on offense.

Big Papi

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2006, 11:35:24 AM »
I totally agree about the lack of leadership.  I believe all the transfers we have encountered played a bigger role in this area than any other reason.  We are basically playing with James, Matthews, McNeal, Lott and Barro with one year of legitimate playing experience along with Cubillan, Hayward with no experience.  Fitz is in his third year but he looks to passive and Kinsella never really played. 

There is something about seniors who have battled for three plus years that elevates them that senior year in performance and leadership skills that this team does not have.  It might be that intensity of this is our last year and everyone takes that cue from them.

SoCalwarrior

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2006, 11:39:55 AM »
I also agree with the leadership problem.  I think we'll get better, but if James doesn't step up and become the leader, we'll be middle of the pack.

tower912

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2006, 02:30:37 PM »
And here is where the "lost" class really comes back to bite us in the tuckus.    Matthews, Bell, Christian, and Mason were supposed to be our senior leaders this year.    Granted, the program is better off without them, but losing the continuity by losing an entire class hurts.   Our seniors, Kinsella and Lott, are both transfers and not leaders.   No slam intended, but our juniors are not leaders, either.   Which leaves us our sophomores.   As talented as they are, sophomores still need a steadying influence.   Sad.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

WashDCWarrior

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2006, 01:56:11 PM »
Welcome to the changing landscape of college basketball.  With the number of players going pro after a year or 2 of college ball, the best NCAA players aren't seniors.  Many teams (including good teams) will be led by juniors, sophomores, and even freshman.  The fact that we're a sophomore-led squad doesn't necessarily put us at a disadvantage against other Big East teams.  Look at UConn.  They're a freshman led team this year.  That being said, senior leadership can allow some mid-major programs (i.e. last year's George Mason) to compete with more talented major conference teams.

DoubleMU0609

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2006, 02:03:29 PM »
Obviously having upper-classmen leadership on a team is going to be an asset.  But I wonder what our team would look like this year had everyone in the 'missing class' stayed. 

I don't know when all the LOI were sent in, but might we have lost some recruiting battles because the new recruits coming in knew they would get a lot of PT with our young team?  It's all speculation, but I think it might have been addition by subtraction, although it probably hurt us in the short run (04-05 seasons).

As far as the leadership goes, almost every team has to go through this transition at the beginning of the season.  It's rare that any full leader is on a team for more than one season as THE leader.  Even players that have established themselves as leaders in the off season need to make the adjustment to game-time situations.  DJ was a leader last year, but not THE leader.  Give him (and the other 'veterans') time.  It'll come.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 02:08:59 PM by DoubleMU0609 »

dwaderoy2004

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2006, 03:00:24 PM »
look at florida last year:  they lost roberson, lee and walsh, a ton of upperclassmen leadership.  4 sophomores led them to the championship in horford, noah, brewer and green.  as stated above, it's a testament to college basketball.  with the new draft rules, expect some teams to be led by freshman, as in texas this year (durant) and even ohio state, with oden and the rest of their class.  we lost leadership, which our sophs will grow into, but we only have 2 guys on this team who didn;t play in teh tourney last year.  at the very least, most of this team has experienced the ncaa tourney...

MUinOH

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2006, 05:32:51 PM »
And here is where the "lost" class really comes back to bite us in the tuckus.


No!  Not in the tuckus!!!   :o

Harrison

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Sorry but I really disagree on two of the points....
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2006, 05:58:19 PM »
To say that college basketball has changed and the best players on a team are sophomores and juniors really has nothing to do with  leadership.  Sure maybe the best players are the sophomores but anyone who has ever played competiitve sports remembers guys like the Joe Chapman's and Chris grimm's of their teams.  The guys that maybe were not the best players on the team But contributed and bled for the team for 4 years and commanded respect and demanded everyone's all, all the time.  These guys were 4 year seniors and this was their last hurrah.. that is where senior leadership comes in I dont care if you have 5 awesome frshman most good teams have that 4th year senior 6th man role player type that  if nothing else  knows he has a handful of games left in his career and will not be playing at the next level.  We do not have that at all. freshman and sophomore no matter how good they are usually dont lead a team. 

Secondly I have to totally object with the initial post.  Joe and Chris seemed to be the emotional leaders of the team  and i am very sure Steve novak provided a lot of leadership, but to say we miss his leader hsip more than we miss his ability to bust a zone in 1 or 2 possesions or to complete open up the court just by standing in the corner at times is crazy talk...just crazy talk.

dwaderoy2004

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2006, 10:08:18 PM »
please point out who the senior leaders on florida were last year when they won the national championship...

MU71

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2006, 07:39:09 AM »
This team has no leaders. DJ will be by the end of the year but not now. And Jerel is the second coming of Dameon. You have to play him but he will continue to infuriate you with some of the things he does. I fear that it may be a longer year than many hoped for.

We miss Steve for one reason - he stretched the court to about 30 feet from the basket because of his incredible shot!  DJ is certainly enough of a leader - he just doesn't have a wide open lane to drive anymore without Steve.  If someoen else steps up from 3-land you won't have to wory about leadership.

MU gimp ONE

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2006, 08:10:22 AM »
Is that what we are basing the criteria for "leadership" as... 3-point shooting.  DJ and Wes are more than capable of running the team and providing just as much if not more leadership as Novak did.  Sure the soph's don't have the NCAA final four run under their belt, but they have been to the dance and they know about big games.  Just because Steve was money from behind the line, doesn't mean he was this superior leader.  Don't get me wrong and jump all over with hate mail posts, Steve did a great job leading us last year because as a senior he was supposed to.  However, i feel that DJ and Wes can step us just as Steve did last year, because now they are supposed to.  I agree with MU71, we miss Steve's range, but the leadership role can be filled.
"You know, most people would kill... to be treated like a god, just for a few moments." - Coach Norman Dale

bheitz

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2006, 10:01:17 AM »
I think the sophs can be and will be the team leaders this year.  I would consider Novak to be more of a go-to guy.  He was the guy you looked to when you needed a basket.  Is that leadership?  For me, not necessarily, but I suppose that depends on your definition (you'll know it when you see it).

Let me throw this out there -- a lot of people were looking for Fitz to fill some of the void SN left.  So far, that hasn't been the case, but the season is still young.  Let's assume that Fitz does start putting up some decent and consistent numbers.  Would that make him a team leader?

tower912

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2006, 10:45:53 AM »
Having that "go-to" guy, especially when he is a coach on the floor, has been to a final 4, can calm the rest of the team down during dead balls, and help them get a shot when everything else is breaking down.  Yeah, that's a leader.   This year, with 5 seconds left in a tie game, we will see DJ or Mac go 1 on 1 and shoot a guarded 18 footer.   Last year, they would run a triple screen curl and get it to SN, and because he had been there so long, it would be the exact same form that you saw during warm-ups.  Not rushed, not panicky.   Leader.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

rocky_warrior

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2006, 10:56:37 AM »
This year, with 5 seconds left in a tie game, we will see DJ or Mac go 1 on 1 and shoot a guarded 18 footer.

That's awful presumptuous.  Or maybe you have a special ability...can you tell me the exact final score of all of our games too?

spiral97

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2006, 11:01:04 AM »
heck, just post what game it will be so hilltopper can have the camera ready!  we'll save your post for posterity so you can say "told you so" all next season if you want..  ::)
Once a warrior always a warrior.. even if the feathers must now come with a beak.

MU gimp ONE

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2006, 11:41:04 AM »
there was a link posted a couple threads down with a yahoo sports article talking about DJ.  here is a piece that stood out to me.

"James has been playing beyond his years ever since. He arrived last year at Marquette, and coach Tom Crean decided immediately to lean on the leadership of his young point guard. "I'm going to put the ball in your hands," Crean told James. "Bring it back in one piece."

He did more than that. James became a floor general. He started every game, helped the Golden Eagles to a 20-11 record and was named Big East rookie of the year."


sounds to me like crean thought he was a leader last year.  i guess when you don't have novak on your team, you also don't have the ability to lead.
"You know, most people would kill... to be treated like a god, just for a few moments." - Coach Norman Dale

tower912

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2006, 12:04:51 PM »
The sophs progress, and I have little doubt that they are the leaders on this team.   I am sorry if it sounds like I am disparaging them.   They have done all anyone can ask of them based on their experience, I am thrilled with them, and hope they all stick around for all 4 years.   I am equally surprised that what Steve meant as an example and a leader seems to be being downplayed.  He was a leader, and the sophs are finding their way to become what he was.  Not meant as an insult, just saying there is a learning curve as to what being a true team leader is.  They will get there.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

rocky_warrior

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2006, 12:21:27 PM »
just saying there is a learning curve as to what being a true team leader is.  They will get there.

I can agree with that...sorry to jump on the last post.

MU71

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Re: The main reason we miss Steve is senior leadership
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2006, 12:48:21 PM »
Having that "go-to" guy, especially when he is a coach on the floor, has been to a final 4, can calm the rest of the team down during dead balls, and help them get a shot when everything else is breaking down.  Yeah, that's a leader.   This year, with 5 seconds left in a tie game, we will see DJ or Mac go 1 on 1 and shoot a guarded 18 footer.   Last year, they would run a triple screen curl and get it to SN, and because he had been there so long, it would be the exact same form that you saw during warm-ups.  Not rushed, not panicky.   Leader.
Go to guy....yes because he could put it in the hole from anywhere
Coach on the floor....when? - I never saw him say a word
Been to the final 4 ....yes
Calm the team during time out....only because they knew he could shoot them out of trouble
Help them get a shot when everything is breaking down....yes because was 6-10 and could shoot from half court
If a leader is someone that gives you confidence because of his ability to shoot or age/maturity, then yes, he was a leader.  If a leader was someone who spoke up, drove the team emotionally, coached on the floor, etc. etc. I'm sorry, I didn't see it.  We miss him big time but more as an athlete with a unique ability than a leader.

 

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