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Author Topic: Is MU Nation Melting Down?  (Read 49190 times)

mu-rara

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2011, 12:27:27 PM »
  Name a team that won a NCAA championship with one and dones. 


We play them Saturday. I was at their final four in New Orleans, severely hung over (ok ok, I was still loaded), watching them beat the team that destroyed us two nights earlier.

(Carmelo and Syracuse fyi)

OK.  But Cuse doesn't get fistfulls of them.  Kentucky with multiples in the last couple of years....KSU with Beasley.... My larger point was that national championships have not been won by teams loaded with one and dones, or Kentucky would have won last year.

warriors1965

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2011, 12:27:57 PM »
1965/nmb, detail exactly what your expectations are for the MU program.   How is Buzz not moving toward them?    Do you think we took a step back from Crean?   If so,  who would you like to see coaching the program that would be interested in coming.    That eliminates Miller and Bennett.   I honestly thought that last year's coaching job by Buzz was the best since Al retired.    Making chicken salad out of chicken $h!t like he did  was amazing.    This year, we were very inexperienced at  a D1 level.   Some have made progress.   Some haven't.   Any team can say the same thing.   So, is your solution to get rid of buzz and start over?    What coach is going to want to come if we get rid of a coach 3 years in who has won 20 (and I truly believe we end up with 20 wins after the BEast tourney and postseason) each year, graduated players,  and competed at the highest level of the BEast.   So, I am flat our calling you out to man up and lay out your solution and which coach you would like to see that would be willing to come.   Willie, this goes for you, too.    

IMO, if MU misses the NCAA tourney this season and next, Buzz should be fired.

And I do think there is a chance of that happening due to this year's freshman class being full of "misses."  It's hard for a coach to be successful when an entire freshman class has performed below expectations.   And just as MU took a big hit with the loss of Lazar this season, next year another top player leaves with Butler.  If people couldn't figure out who was "the guy, the leader" this season, who is it next year?  DJO by default?

And I can't believe I'm going to say this since Tom Crean just oozed insincerity and slime (and I know someone who worked VERY closely with him), but the program has taken a step down now.

BTW, for those who think that MU will just get a great assistant to help Buzz out, I'm not sure that's going to happen.  Buzz is very stubborn and bristles at the slightest criticism/questioning of his coaching decisions.  He doesn't think there is anything wrong with his defensive scheme.  

MerrittsMustache

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2011, 12:33:10 PM »
I corrected this for you.


IMO, if MU misses the NCAA tourney this season and next, Buzz should be fired.

And I do think there is a chance of that happening due to this year's freshman class being full of "misses."  It's hard for a coach to be successful when an entire freshman class has performed below expectations.   And just as MU took a big hit with the loss of Lazar this season, next year another top player leaves with Butler.  If people couldn't figure out who was "the guy, the leader" this season, who is it next year?  DJO by default?

And I can't believe I'm going to say this since Tom Crean just oozed insincerity and slime (and I know someone who worked VERY closely with him), but the program has taken a step down now.

BTW, for those who think that MU will just get a great assistant to help Buzz out, I'm not sure that's going to happen.  Buzz is very stubborn and bristles at the slightest criticism/questioning of his coaching decisions.  He doesn't think there is anything wrong with his defensive scheme. 

groove

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2011, 12:35:57 PM »
Mike Deane
21-12 NIT
23-8 NCAA 2nd
22-9 NCAA 1st
20-11
14-15 Fired

Buzz
25-10 NCAA 2nd
22-12 NCAA 1st
13-8 ?

Could be Mike Deane v.2
After three years Deane was 66-29
Buzz is 60-30 so far
Will he outlast Deane?

MerrittsMustache

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2011, 12:38:43 PM »
Mike Deane
21-12 NIT
23-8 NCAA 2nd
22-9 NCAA 1st
20-11
14-15 Fired

Buzz
25-10 NCAA 2nd
22-12 NCAA 1st
13-8 ?

Could be Mike Deane v.2
After three years Deane was 66-29
Buzz is 60-30 so far
Will he outlast Deane?


A year ago weren't posters wondering how long it will be before Buzz bolts for another school since he's such a young, successful, highly respected coach?

Pakuni

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2011, 12:39:11 PM »

BTW, for those who think that MU will just get a great assistant to help Buzz out, I'm not sure that's going to happen.  Buzz is very stubborn and bristles at the slightest criticism/questioning of his coaching decisions.  He doesn't think there is anything wrong with his defensive scheme.  

Are you basing this on your numerous face-to-face discussions with Buzz about his defensive strategy?

Henry Sugar

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2011, 12:42:47 PM »
Could be Mike Deane v.2
After three years Deane was 66-29
Buzz is 60-30 so far
Will he outlast Deane?

really?
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tower912

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2011, 12:44:30 PM »
Mike Deane
21-12 NIT
23-8 NCAA 2nd
22-9 NCAA 1st
20-11
14-15 Fired

Buzz
25-10 NCAA 2nd
22-12 NCAA 1st
13-8 ?

Could be Mike Deane v.2
After three years Deane was 66-29
Buzz is 60-30 so far
Will he outlast Deane?

Yes.   Mike Deane said that MU should be content with the occasional NCAA berth and was  bringing in progressively worse classes (Krunti Hester) and embarrassing the school (Tourney meltdown)      
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

ErickJD08

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2011, 12:47:01 PM »
The way I see it... people calling for Buzz's head are stupid.  No other way about it.  

We have some passionate fans in our fan base and for a guy who sees the glass half full, its extremely frustrating to watch.  I am sure everyone who watches the games shares my frustration.  I would be fine if our team just wasn't good enough to play with these guys.  I would be fine if we had some key players injured or playing really cold.  I would be fine if we were consistently running into buzzsaws, like Pitt.  Or if the ball wasn't bouncing our way.  But none of that is the case.  We look dominant at times, and through major stretches of the game.  And it seems/looks like when the other team really pushes us hard, we crumble.  There is no other way to see it.  Against UL, ND, and UConn, we were seriously outplayed in the closing minutes.  It has NOTHING to do with "they were ranked" or "they are better".  They just wanted more than we did.  And I think that's what gets people all worked up.  Oh well... just my opinion.
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Rubie Q

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2011, 12:50:03 PM »
Mike Deane
21-12 NIT
23-8 NCAA 2nd
22-9 NCAA 1st
20-11
14-15 Fired

Buzz
25-10 NCAA 2nd
22-12 NCAA 1st
13-8 ?

Could be Mike Deane v.2
After three years Deane was 66-29
Buzz is 60-30 so far
Will he outlast Deane?

In my mind, going 7-5, 10-4, 9-5, 8-8, and then 6-10 in the Great Midwest / Conference USA is a shade worse than going 12-6 and then 11-7 in the Big East, even if there's a 9-9 thrown in this year.

groove

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2011, 12:54:25 PM »
In my mind, going 7-5, 10-4, 9-5, 8-8, and then 6-10 in the Great Midwest / Conference USA is a shade worse than going 12-6 and then 11-7 in the Big East, even if there's a 9-9 thrown in this year.

Yes, I would agree. However, the NCAA results are the same.

Rubie Q

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2011, 12:58:22 PM »
Yes, I would agree. However, the NCAA results are the same.

Which is why I don't like basing my opinion of a coach/team on the results of a three-week, single-elimination tournament.

mug644

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2011, 01:11:59 PM »
I'm adding my voice to this thread simply because there are clearly folks within the MU athletic department that read messages boards (as evidenced by Buzz's radio show, when he essentially refers to this 'meltdown').

Last year, folks were loving how Buzz led the team to such an incredible run, perhaps underestimating the value of role players who became leaders (Acker, Cubillan).

This year, folks are ready to cut Buzz loose, despite the fact that he's dealt with a less experienced group of players.

I ache thinking about all the losses this year (to me, only during the Gonzaga and WI games did I feel that there was no way we'd win), and Buzz could certainly improve as coach.

But there is no way that anyone should think about getting rid of him. Even if we don't make the NCAA tourney this year (though I still think we will), I believe we are trending in the right direction.

Stretchdeltsig

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2011, 01:35:34 PM »
To AnotherMU84 - There are no good losses.  Wins are good.  Losses are bad.

I agree that Buzz did an incredible coaching job last year.  However, this year, it's become a trend, that his player selection is lousy and his play calling seem terrible, especially in the second half.  In our recent losses it seems that Buzz is not playing his best players when we need them the most.  And, it seems that he is uncomfortable playing our "bigs."  And, it seems that our young players are not being coached well.  As Top 100 recruits, you would expect that everyone on the team should be able to contribute and improve throughout the season. 

It's ok to play hard and lose.  But, to lose games when we were ahead in the games, by sitting our scorers or "bigs", seems like we're playing to lose.  Still don't understand Buzz's coaching this year.  He looked totally lost and dumbfounded after the UCONN game.

tower912

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2011, 01:40:05 PM »
  The youngs and the bigs aren't developed, but we need to expand our bench by playing our best players at crunch time.    OK.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MerrittsMustache

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2011, 02:11:54 PM »
Marquette is currently in the midst of their toughest part of the schedule. They sit at 4-4 with 10 conference games left to play. Of those 10 games, I feel very confident about 6 of them (@USF, StJ, SHU H/A, Prov, Cincy) and feel that the other 4 games are winnable as well.

Syracuse is sputtering right now and games at Villanova, G'town and UConn will obviously be tough tests but I don't think it's ridiculous to think that MU could win any of those games.  It's not out of the realm of possibility to think that MU could be heading into the Big East Tournament as winner of 5 of 6 or even 7 of 8.

There's a lot of season left to play.

warthog-driver

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2011, 02:49:28 PM »
What does it mean that Buzz "is doing things correctly?"  Bringing in JUCO's? Having a freshman class that's had zero positive impact this season?
Being a nice guy? I sure hope everyone that keeps saying this is a rebuilding year and next year is the year to pay attention to will hold Buzz accountable if things don't get better.

Spoken like a true Bail Bondsman! Bravo!

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2011, 03:05:29 PM »
So let's turn this question around as we know the half-empty sentiment: Why do people think MU will turn it around? Specific analyses please (no "In Buzz we trust" cliches). 

Personally, MU is just right about where I figured...but better offensively and worse defensively.  Maybe that adds to fans' grief....they see the upside but feel the bitter end of the rope when MU cannot stop runs at the end of games.  Causes a bipolar reaction as we are "close enough" to be elite, but not good enough--thus, the half empty mentality. So, what is it that the half-full fans see upcoming? 

btw, I can see us going 13-10 based on upcoming match-ups....then this board will be nuclear   ;)

Henry Sugar

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2011, 03:22:37 PM »
So let's turn this question around as we know the half-empty sentiment: Why do people think MU will turn it around? Specific analyses please (no "In Buzz we trust" cliches).  


According to the stats, MU is the fifth best team in the BE.  We have the best offense in the league.  Over the last five games, MU has the stats of a team that should go 14.1 - 3.9.

In three of the last five games, MU has scored over 1.24 ppp.  In four of the last five games, MU has held opponents to 1.06 ppp or less.  But there's a lot of variability there.  The half-full in me says young team = inconsistency/variability and this will get more consistent over time.

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=625

edit:  5th best team after the UConn game
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 03:27:14 PM by Henry Sugar »
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MerrittsMustache

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2011, 03:25:03 PM »
According to the stats, MU is the third best team in the BE.  We have the best offense in the league.  Over the last five games, MU has the stats of a team that should go 14.1 - 3.9.

In three of the last five games, MU has scored over 1.24 ppp.  In four of the last five games, MU has held opponents to 1.06 ppp or less.  But there's a lot of variability there.  The half-full in me says young team = inconsistency/variability and this will get more consistent over time.

Also throw in the fact that the schedule gets much easier down the stretch.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2011, 03:26:29 PM »
You agree that we are melting down?

No.  There's only a few melting down.  They're just vocal.  Happens nearly every year.
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

tower912

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2011, 03:33:04 PM »
According to the stats, MU is the fifth best team in the BE.  We have the best offense in the league.  Over the last five games, MU has the stats of a team that should go 14.1 - 3.9.

In three of the last five games, MU has scored over 1.24 ppp.  In four of the last five games, MU has held opponents to 1.06 ppp or less.  But there's a lot of variability there.  The half-full in me says young team = inconsistency/variability and this will get more consistent over time.

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=625

edit:  5th best team after the UConn game

Damn, statistical proof for Murf that we should have gone 14-4.     
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

wardle2wade

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2011, 03:44:37 PM »
Mike Deane
21-12 NIT
23-8 NCAA 2nd
22-9 NCAA 1st
20-11
14-15 Fired

Buzz
25-10 NCAA 2nd
22-12 NCAA 1st
13-8 ?

Could be Mike Deane v.2
After three years Deane was 66-29
Buzz is 60-30 so far
Will he outlast Deane?
You left out a minor note that we were playing in C-USA and the GMC with Deane.  Our losses were to teams like TCU, East Carolina, SLU, etc.  Not UConn, Pitt, ND, etc.

Deane also was about 20 years Buzz's elder and set in his way.  Buzz has done a great job overall given everything, but has plenty of room to grow as a coach.  He seems to be intelligent and does a bit of self-reflection, so I imagine he will improve quite a bit... he's only been here for 2.5 years.

wardle2wade

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2011, 03:58:58 PM »
No.  There's only a few melting down.  They're just vocal.  Happens nearly every year.

Ehh imo the meltdowns are both happening much more often and much more vocal.  Many posters are making their "arguments" personal at our players, and seem to be making short-sighted conclusions about our program overall.  Tbh it's been pretty annoying to even come on here the last month, but comes with the territory of course since we're all fanatics.

I know there are people of all ages "melting down" right now, but I'd be willing to be there is some correlation to posters' ages.   A decade ago when I was 20, I remember making idiotic points like Merritt his Junior year should lose his scholarship after a disappointing couple of games, and that Blankston wasn't worth having on our roster anyways when he left.  I seem to be reading asinine arguments like this on a daily basis this season.  Ten years later, it's still extremely frustrating losing these tight games to good teams, but I have a lot more patience.  As a whole, if these are the worst of our problems, our program is in very good shape.


ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Is MU Nation Melting Down?
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2011, 04:25:38 PM »
No.  There's only a few melting down.  They're just vocal.  Happens nearly every year.

no melting here.  actually got a few more inches of snow.

 

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