Just returned from South Bend

[NavinRJohnson]

for all those who are not worried because VB is going to be a " great" one, what evidence is there to back up that statement? That he is fast? has a good handle?  can score?  can shoot?  can be a shut down defender? To date there is not even a hit of that.  By the way, we are assuming competition is decent, not De Paul.

If are only willing to look at production half way through his Freshman season, and can't see the obvious talent and athleticism there, I'm afraid there is nothing I or anyone else can do to help you, other than to say, "wait and see." Is anything guaranteed? No, but in my opinion, based on what I've seen, he is going to be a very good player.

[PaintTouches]

More empty seats at BC this year, still poor media coverage (placement in paper or news cast) and not enough hype. It seems weird to me that while Buzz continues to get studs overall excitement is lacking.

Seems like the data disagrees with your assertion that there are more empty seats under Buzz. Just saying.

Year  Rank Team   Games  Total     Average
2005- 21. Marquette 21     251,274  11,965
2006- 18. Marquette 16     223,983  13,998
2007- 14. Marquette 20     306,893  15,345
2008- 14. Marquette 17     276,064  16,239
2009- 10. Marquette 18     291,596  16,200
2010- 10. Marquette 17     265,484  15,617

[Goose]

Lenny---I am not looking for self promoter, but will say we did have pretty good one of those 35 years ago. My only concern is doing what is needed to be done for the long haul. I have no problem with JUCO's (actually like them) but do not think that is the route for long term success. That is the path taken when you do not want to go back three steps. I said this three years ago that I would rather go back ten steps quickly and build from there. Our foundation needs to be rebuilt too quickly. Going backwards is OK if you have a long term plan. I think we have short term plan on how not to go backwards.

Buzz has proven to be a good coach. I would say that you and I have different definitions of rising star but that is fine. I can assure you that my definition of rising star has been wrong more than right.

[Goose]

pux---I am talking empty seats and not seats sold. You were impressed at ND crowd two weeks ago? I love MU ball as much as anyone but I am not going to lie to myself. Excitement is lower this year and that scares me.

[Tugg Speedman]

You were impressed at ND crowd two weeks ago? I love MU ball as much as anyone but I am not going to lie to myself.

Kids were still on break for ND

[Goose]

I understand kids were on break but it was the ninth ranked team in the country. I do not want to come across as negative and want the best. That said, I do think there are warning signs of potential trouble.  I would say MU is to blame for ticket situation as much as students being gone. Season ticket selection and cost are not user friendly. Duke can be dick's to season ticket holder...MU cannot.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Kids were still on break for ND

and a 6:00 Pm game where many come up from Chicago and the BCS championship game was on right after.  Was surprised UND contingent wasn't larger either. Made for TV game.

[PaintTouches]

pux---I am talking empty seats and not seats sold. You were impressed at ND crowd two weeks ago? I love MU ball as much as anyone but I am not going to lie to myself. Excitement is lower this year and that scares me.

I wouldn't know about how the crowd looked in the BC since I'm 6 time zones away, but all i'm saying is that statistically speaking, there has been no drop off, it has actually gone up. Yes, "excitement" could well be down, but that's exactly what people (including myself) were saying last year. There is always less excitement when a team is not ranked. My point being that to blame Buzz for a lack of "buzz" is disingenuous and therefore a bad marker of how good of a job he is doing.   

[Goose]

pux---I was in China for ND game and my kids attended. They were the ones that were shocked with crowd. The "buzz" is all part of a program. You stated that the same could be said last year on excitement, do we want to be saying it again next year? I can tell you I am optimistic and love the thought of next years team. I voted Elite 8 on the poll a couple of weeks ago for next year. All I am saying is maybe, just maybe, Buzz is in over his head.

[tower912]

I understand kids were on break but it was the ninth ranked team in the country. I do not want to come across as negative and want the best. That said, I do think there are warning signs of potential trouble.  I would say MU is to blame for ticket situation as much as students being gone. Season ticket selection and cost are not user friendly. Duke can be dick's to season ticket holder...MU cannot.

And that should be put on Buzz's shoulders how exactly.   

[Tugg Speedman]

and a 6:00 Pm game where many come up from Chicago and the BCS championship game was on right after.  Was surprised UND contingent wasn't larger either. Made for TV game.

This is a good point, I'm in Chicago and passed on going to the game because I did not want to leave work early AND miss the BCS national championship game that started 10 minutes before our game ended.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that made this decision.

Regarding Duke,

Cameron indoor seats 9300.  

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=218099

We have 15,500 in ticket sales.

If MU moved played in a 9300 seat arena tomorrow, we too can be total dicks to the season ticket holders.  

That said, why is abusing ticket holders because you play in a tiny arena a virtue?

[Goose]

Tower---Coaches fill seats. Having a national televised game with 35% empty seats is wrong. KO know how to sell a program as did TC.

AnotherMU---Come on, do you really think MU ticket policy is user friendly? Duke can be a dick because they are good, not because of 9300 seat joint. We sold out Mecca for years and could have sold out Miller Park. I realize TV changes alot but empty seas is not great recruiting tool.

[Tugg Speedman]

Tower---Coaches fill seats. Having a national televised game with 35% empty seats is wrong. KO know how to  I realize TV changes alot but empty seas is not great recruiting tool.

No but an NBA arena is a Huge recruiting tool.  "Here JP Tokoto, sit at Brandon Jennings locker for a minute and visualize playing for MU."

[tower912]

Goose, what is different in the amount of disposable income in SE Wisconsin compared to 5 years ago?    And for whatever reason, we are getting the 10 AM on NYD game or the Tuesday night early game.    Tough for people to make the drive from Chi-town for a 6 PM start. 

[Goose]

AnotherMU--You are correct on NBA arena 100%. But if you think an empty seats help I strongly disagree. This goes back to my building a foundation point. We already play in NBA arena and have that advantage so selling it out would be priority to me if I were Buzz/MU. Would have to think it would add to the attraction.

[Goose]

Tower---Bingo on disposable income issue. Make it user friendly and fill the barn up. I watch Louisville sell out their dump and we play to empty seats. Louisville is not bigger market and yet they find a way. Trust me I do not want to be Louisville but times are tough everywhere.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Tower---Bingo on disposable income issue. Make it user friendly and fill the barn up. I watch Louisville sell out their dump and we play to empty seats. Louisville is not bigger market and yet they find a way. Trust me I do not want to be Louisville but times are tough everywhere.

The Yum Center is not a dump...maybe the best in the nation.  Louisville has no NBA team. UL is their NBA team and NFL for football. They built the Yum Center to attract the NBA eventually.  MU is top ten in attendance. UND needed 1000 MU fans to drive down there to sell out a 8000 seat arena for a rated home team. 

[Tugg Speedman]

AnotherMU--You are correct on NBA arena 100%. But if you think an empty seats help I strongly disagree. This goes back to my building a foundation point. We already play in NBA arena and have that advantage so selling it out would be priority to me if I were Buzz/MU. Would have to think it would add to the attraction.

But we are top 15 in attendance in the nation.

See this old post that is still largely true.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9173.msg77898;topicseen#msg77898

MU attendance is 200% the size of its undergrad population.  Only six other schools have a larger %.  The fact is we play in a relatively huge arena so it is not going to sell out.  Or, we could boost the undergrad population to 15,000 and pack 10,000 kids into the BC. These are the numbers Louisville uses to pack the YUM center.  We get 5,000 to a game and its 75% of the students.  That is a great %turnout.

We could move back to the MECCA (or whatever it is called today) and pack the place.  What would that accomplish?

[Goose]

Dr B.---I know YUM is special place and no NBA, MLB or others. Understand MU bought tickets for ND in SB big time. All my point is I do believe MU has more to offer than most places. I for one do believe MU is tier 1 program (top 25 coaching job). Honestly I watch everyone defend all things MU and most probably hold MU in lower regard than I do in overall picture.

We can make excuses or defend anything MU forever. But, it does not address the fact in my opinion we are not reaching our full potential. Tradition in basketball, great school (at least very good), NBA arena and "rising star" as coach were on outside looking in. In my opinion with all we have going for us we should be looking in our rearview mirror and most of our competition. For all we have going for us every year we sit at our computers hoping for a six seed and get pissed when it is an 11.

I am relatively new on here and know Chico's is big TC guy and gets blasted for it. I read people saying TC will be gone at IU shortly and he is not delivering the goods. All that might be true but I believe an IU embraces it's history and sets a higher bar than we do. I really do not get why that is? My bar for the program is very high and not willing to defend MU just to defend it.

[Tugg Speedman]

Dr B.---I know YUM is special place and no NBA, MLB or others. Understand MU bought tickets for ND in SB  For all we have going for us every year we sit at our computers hoping for a six seed and get pissed when it is an 11.

When did this happen?  I thought we WERE a six seed the last two years.

[Goose]

AnotherMU---The Brewers drew 3 million for 2 straight seasons and Packers sell out 70K for as long as I can remember. Your stats/facts are correct but does not tell whole story. People make excuses not to go to event when things are not as they wanted them to be. I would bet the BCS game would take back burner to Chicago fans if MU was ranked #4 vand playing #1 at 6pm on Monday night. Product sells and our product is a bubble team and it gets bubble team support. I stayed home from DePaul because it was on TV and honestly not a must see event.


Sorry for all the posts and believe me I am on your side!!!

[Tugg Speedman]

So unless we are #1 we are butkus?

You said we should be a top 25 program.  By most definition we are.  What you're arguing/complaining about is why we are not a top 10 or top 5 program.  We both want that your posts give me the impression that we could easily be Michigan State is we only wanted to apply ourselves.  It is much more than that to get to that truly elite level.

See Georgetown, would you trade Buzz for JT III?  Right now I would not.  Is GU a better program?  Right now I would say no.

[Goose]

AnotherMU--I think we could be Michigan State.

[Tugg Speedman]

AnotherMU--I think we could be Michigan State.

I do too ... but I think we are in the process of becoming that.  Or, I'm not ready to think Buzz cannot turn us into MSU.  Too early to give up on him.

[Goose]

Not giving up on Buzz at all. I just think we as fans are part of the process. Having blinders on and defending everything is not constructive in my opinion. Empty seats, too many transfers, need for JUCO's and lack of overall respect in area are things that should be addressed. My gut says Michigan State ball is respected in Michigan even though big brother is down the street. You would think MU was UWM with media and overall respect shown locally.

We need to be the elite program in the state by long margin to take the next step. I think we need to bury UW and respect will follow.

FYI--I do realize we have ton of positives, many I mentioned in earlier post. One I did mention, which is our best asset, is graduation rate.