What does Junior Cadougan bring to the court, especially on offense?

[willie warrior]

One of our better line-ups for making runs is with Buycks, Jr. and DJO all on the floor at the same time. You then fill with Crowder/Butler/Otule/Fulce.

While there are times small really helps, we lose something with either Crowder or Fulce in the post--not their correct position.

The small line-up above has helped us more than a few times this year for making runs.

[Chili]

Cadougan played a good game last night.  He played his ass off, although what he did didn't show in teh box scores.  He and Blue were awesome on defense.  Anyone realize that when DJO came in to sub Blue with 7 minutes left, he lost his man on baseline screens almost on 3 straight UCONN posessions?  I love DJO, but I don't think he adjusted as well as Blue did to the constant screens.

But in our society we reward results, not effort.  The team, coaches included, lost the game last night for multiple reasons.  But to single out Junior and Blue is just plain stupid.

I saw this right away when DJO came back in and said to my friend who I sit with that we are about to get torched on defense again soon because DJO was atrocious on defense last night. And with his Jerel McNeal like head down black hole like drives, he was much more a detriment last night the an asset. We played our best ball with Blue and Vander on court because they were MUCH better defensively than the rest of guards save Dwight. Everyone here is bitching about offensive stats when we actually lost this game on the defensive end.

[GGGG]

DJO started so hot, but sometimes when he does this he just feels like he is Kobe or something, because he stops letting the game come to him.  The ball stalls in his hands often.

[79Warrior]

He's another guard, along with Blue, who can't shoot to save their asses yet play significant minutes. Couple that with two complete stiffs in the posts and the talent level isn't good enough to compete with the upper half of the BE. Wouldn't matter if Phil Jackson were the coach.

Agree. Quite frankly, the "talent" level that so many posters claim we have has not been visible on the court. In fact, it seems many lack the "talent" to even get off the frigging bench.

[tower912]

One of our better line-ups for making runs is with Buycks, Jr. and DJO all on the floor at the same time. You then fill with Crowder/Butler/Otule/Fulce.

While there are times small really helps, we lose something with either Crowder or Fulce in the post--not their correct position.

The small line-up above has helped us more than a few times this year for making runs.

Willie, what did you think of DG last night?   I was actually pleased.   He was actually moving his feet on defense and attempting to make the proper rotation, relative to his man when the ball got reversed.   He needs to better use his bulk on offense, as going straight up got his shot blocked by the beanpole.   Also needs a countermove for when they cover his 'dribble-right-drag-turn-and-go-strong-over-the-left-shoulder' move.   But there was hope.

[leever]

JC did have a "great game" if you take into considerationg the Canadian exchange rate.

[Jacks DC]

Junior is not a great offensive player but he doesn't make many bad decisions and has a decent handle. 

[4everwarriors]

Absolutely nothing

[NotAnAlum]

First, we have had a long history of seeing players contribute from day one--point guards especially--Dominic James, Tony Miller, Cordell Henry.
 

Sorry but Cordell Henry was not very good as a freshman.  I remember thinking how are we going to make it with this guy.  And remember we were playing in the great Midwest which is NOTHING like playing in the BE.  And Junior really is a freshman.  Last year was a complete wash out for him.  Dominic - no question a unique talent.  Tony Miller.  Put Mac, Key and Loterman on this team so Junior only has to feed the post or hit the open shooter, put them in A10 or the Horizon League (equal to the Great Midwest back then) and I think Junior would be putting up fine numbers.
Different situation.  We're in the big leagues now.  Except in rare cases you win with upperclassmen

[MU B2002]

Cordell's first year was Conf USA, was it not?  98-99…

[NYWarrior]

Sorry but Cordell Henry was not very good as a freshman.  

Cordell averaged 7ppg, 3 apg, 2 rpg, shot 76% from the FT line and 33% from the field (32% from deep) as a freshman....and was good enough to play 28 mins per game, starting 20.  That's a healthy line for a true freshman, head/shoulders above Junior, who will never be anything but a role player.  Honestly, Cordell was faster & more athletic, he was a better shooter, a better passer and a better defender than Junior is or ever will be.  Frankly, this program has a PG problem for the first time in decades.  Junior is not the player everybody thought he would be.

=cordell&s[]=henry]http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/cordell_henry?s[]=cordell&s[]=henry

[Silkk the Shaka]

Anyone who can't see steady improvement from junior is blind.

[willie warrior]

Willie, what did you think of DG last night?   I was actually pleased.   He was actually moving his feet on defense and attempting to make the proper rotation, relative to his man when the ball got reversed.   He needs to better use his bulk on offense, as going straight up got his shot blocked by the beanpole.   Also needs a countermove for when they cover his 'dribble-right-drag-turn-and-go-strong-over-the-left-shoulder' move.   But there was hope.

Gardner did not do anything in his 3 minutes. Otule did very little also in his time out there, even missing some FT's. We are hurting in the big category.

[willie warrior]

Absolutely nothing

And you add absolutely nothing if you cannot see that he is the best ball distributor we have.

[tower912]

You're answering a question I asked about a game two weeks ago.   DG did not look good last night.  CO at least blocked a couple of shots and kept asking for the ball, even when he was missing.  

[NYWarrior]

Anyone who can't see steady improvement from junior is blind.

He is improving...no doubt. But he's a role player not the prototypical 'Marquette point guard' we've grown accustomed to in the last two decades. 

[tower912]

He starts next year and I think he should be starting this year.    Let him get the ball to the other 4 and get them rolling.   Have Buycks come in with Blue so that you don't have to worry about Cadougan and Blue together.    Hopefully, Blue can play some 1 next year and JJ progresses enough that he can play some 2.

[Tugg Speedman]

nm

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Cordell averaged 7ppg, 3 apg, 2 rpg, shot 76% from the FT line and 33% from the field (32% from deep) as a freshman....and was good enough to play 28 mins per game, starting 20.  That's a healthy line for a true freshman, head/shoulders above Junior, who will never be anything but a role player.  Honestly, Cordell was faster & more athletic, he was a better shooter, a better passer and a better defender than Junior is or ever will be.  Frankly, this program has a PG problem for the first time in decades.  Junior is not the player everybody thought he would be.

=cordell&s[]=henry]http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/cordell_henry?s[]=cordell&s[]=henry

I'll respectfully disagree here.

I like Cordell as an upperclassman, but he had no left hand early on (or ever for that matter), played on a mediocre team (that was offensively challenged) and dominated the ball. MU dribbled around a lot in those days looking for Wardle or Bargen to get open. Sometimes Cliff in the corner. That was about it.   

Player A   TEAM    MIN    PTS    FG%   AST    A/T    3P%    STL    Reb
                   18.90   2.70   0.38   2.90   2.03   0.14   0.70   1.70
                           
Player B   TEAM    MIN   PTS    FG%   AST   A/T    3P%   Stl   Reb
                     28.80   7.20   0.33   3.20   1.26   0.32   1.00   2.60

It's pretty easy to know who is whom (did I use "whom" correctly??).

Cordell has better numbers, but when you factor in the strength of the teams, schedules and min., I don't think you can say that Cordell was destined for greatness while Junior will only be a role player.

If you gave Junior 28min/game on the 1998 team, and let him dribble it around for 25 seconds every possession, I'm confident he could find 7pts per game*, which is really the biggest difference here.

*Given that Deane's teams only scored 50pts/game, maybe that 7pts is actually worth like 12 in Buzz's offense, I dunno.

It may sound crazy because they haven't played well overall, but I really like Blue and Junior's upsides. They have shown really nice spurts that can probably be reigned in a little with maturity, practice and good coaching.

Blue looked like the worst and best player on the floor in the same 30 seconds. He's sneaky big, gets to a lot of balls, and is hard to stay in front of. He's just not that strong in the lane, has no touch, and needs some patience. But, those are things that can come with maturity and coaching. I think he will be a very good college guard.

[ErickJD08]

I like Junior.  I think he will be a real solid player with a chance of being a really great PG.  This is his first year really playing and you can tell he definitely has great court vision and he is an accurate passer.  Offensively, I don't mind seeing guys pass up open jumpers like Junior.  If he is not confident about his shooting, for one reason or another, then I don't want him shooting it. 

[wildbill sb]

It's pretty easy to know who is whom (did I use "whom" correctly??).

Actually, I think it should be "who," as it follows the linking verb "is" and therefore requires the nominative case form.

[San Diego Warrior]

Cordell averaged 7ppg, 3 apg, 2 rpg, shot 76% from the FT line and 33% from the field (32% from deep) as a freshman....and was good enough to play 28 mins per game, starting 20.  That's a healthy line for a true freshman, head/shoulders above Junior, who will never be anything but a role player.  Honestly, Cordell was faster & more athletic, he was a better shooter, a better passer and a better defender than Junior is or ever will be.  Frankly, this program has a PG problem for the first time in decades.  Junior is not the player everybody thought he would be.

Don't forget - Cordell Henry was playing in Conference USA on a team that never even made the NCAA tournments.  Quite a bit different playing on a likely NCAA bid team in against BigEAST teams.

[Marquette84]

Sorry but Cordell Henry was not very good as a freshman.  I remember thinking how are we going to make it with this guy.  And remember we were playing in the great Midwest which is NOTHING like playing in the BE.  And Junior really is a freshman.  Last year was a complete wash out for him.  Dominic - no question a unique talent.  Tony Miller.  Put Mac, Key and Loterman on this team so Junior only has to feed the post or hit the open shooter, put them in A10 or the Horizon League (equal to the Great Midwest back then) and I think Junior would be putting up fine numbers.
Different situation.  We're in the big leagues now.  Except in rare cases you win with upperclassmen

I think you vastly underestimate the Great Midwest.

Cincy and Louisville were both stronger than the mid-level BE teams they are now--elite teams like like Pitt today  DePaul and Memphis at the time were at least equivalent to an above average Big East team.  St. Louis had a couple of poor seasons, but for the final two years they had Larry Hughes, which probably put them at the equivalent of a Georgetown or Villanova today.  UAB at the time was always decent--equivalent to an above average Big East team.

Dayton (in the league only two years) was really the only pushover--equivalent to DePaul today.

In its first two seasons, the league sent 3 of 6 teams to the NCAA tournament, and 4 of 7 in 1994.

No way it was the equivalent of a Horizon or A10.  




 

[Marquette84]

Don't forget - Cordell Henry was playing in Conference USA on a team that never even made the NCAA tournments.  Quite a bit different playing on a likely NCAA bid team in against BigEAST teams.

In our division, Henry faced 7 games against NCAA opponents in conference his freshman year.  2 each against Cincy, Louisville and Charlotte, and once against UAB.

Cincinnati was an elite-level team that year--ranked in the top 5 for much of the season. 

Against those 7 NCAA teams, Henry maintained his 7.0 ppg scoring average, and actually stepped up his minutes, averaging 34 mpg in those 7 games.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

In our division, Henry faced 7 games against NCAA opponents in conference his freshman year.  2 each against Cincy, Louisville and Charlotte, and once against UAB.

Cincinnati was an elite-level team that year--ranked in the top 5 for much of the season. 

Against those 7 NCAA teams, Henry maintained his 7.0 ppg scoring average, and actually stepped up his minutes, averaging 34 mpg in those 7 games.

To be fair, Cordell averaged 34min. per game in those games because the back up PG was Bart Miller, who was a nice kid and a great student, but clearly over his head in high level D1 hoops.

If you gave Junior 34mpg against those teams, he could probably avg. close to 7ppg.

Cordell was a nice player, But, the idea that he was miles ahead of JC at this point is a stretch.

Cordell was exciting because he could dunk, but he was not really a very effective PG as a frosh.