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Author Topic: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....  (Read 5299 times)

tower912

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Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« on: March 09, 2007, 06:51:47 AM »
First, it is nearly impossible to beat a higher ranked team 3 times in the same season.  Second, it is nearly impossible to beat said team twice in a week missing your glue guy/BE defender of the year/second best scorer.  Third, Lazar reverting to being a freshman and making absurd fouls hurt.  Fourth, Kudos to Pitt.  They were very patient on offense, pounded it inside with Gray, and he is good.  Ooze was left to flail away.   Fifth, anybody who knows this team should have realized in the first half, when we had a frontline of Kinsella, Burke, and Lott in, and it wasn't garbage time, that we weren't going to win.  Sixth, and finally, it was clear which team had played the night before and which one didn't.   Our 9 schollie players lacked that extra oomph needed to keep Pitt off of the boards.
   Some decent things came out of the game.  Fitz and Lazar playing together is a nice combination.   Cubi ran the offense well, though he didn't score.   For the most part, DJ played a solid game, hopefully his outside shot returns.   Ooze remembered how to find space underneath.    Wes gave a typically unnoticed 19 point game.    If Jerel returns, and the rest of the team plays like it did the last two days, we should make it through to the second weekend.    It is going to be ok, boys.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

ecompt

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2007, 07:12:24 AM »
No ledge for me. Pitt played a very good game and deserved to win. But if Jerel is done for the year I fear our stay in the Dance will be short.

CTWarrior

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 07:28:33 AM »
No ledge for me. Pitt played a very good game and deserved to win. But if Jerel is done for the year I fear our stay in the Dance will be short.

Our offense actually seems to run smoother without McNeal.  But without him getting into the middle of everything the other team's offense tries to do, our defense really suffers.  DJ is the only other big time defender we have, so he is doubly missed.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 09:03:36 AM by CTWarrior »
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NotAnAlum

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2007, 08:13:41 AM »
I agree CT.  However, without Jerel we very seldom create steals or turnovers.  Without those easy baskets and disruptive plays facing a team with a guy like Gray you are going to eventually get ground to a pulp.  With all this talk from Chicos and others about if its a guards game or not you can see from Georgetown and Pitt that the best path to being a truly elite team is to have BOTH good guards and a solid inside game.
On the plus side you've got to like Fitz's offensive game.  Now not only is he shooting 3s (and for my money he has by far the best looking 3 shoot on the team) but he is driving and showing some moves in the paint.  If he can do that we will have a chance to win 2 games in the tournament (We'll have to play someone pretty much the caliber of Pittsburgh to advance to the sweet 16.)  Beyond that, assuming James stays this team, now with a little senior "star" leadership from Fitz could be very good next year.

augoman

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2007, 08:45:41 AM »
totally agree about Fitz' trey shooting..., now let's get Lazar and DJ to stop shooting 3's and all will be good.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 09:27:29 AM »
I didn't see anyone on any ledges.  We played a top 15 team on the road in a tourney and lost.  I'll bet half+ the people around here booked this as a loss, or at best, a tough win, seeing as we'd need to beat them a third time, and twice without McNeal.

Nukem2

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2007, 09:36:05 AM »
Don't underestimate the benefit of the bye for Pitt either.  Fresher legs do impact a game as well.  Just another factor. 

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 09:55:59 AM »
Very true.  Plus, for Pitt, I'll bet they didn't give SJU a seconds' thought.  They were preparing to play MU for two straight weeks.

CTWarrior

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2007, 10:10:02 AM »
Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
Question.  When is it OK to be upset about a loss?  It seems that many on our board are never upset about the current loss and are always looking ahead. 
The team should have three goals at the beginning of each season.  BE regular season title, BE tournament title and NCAA Final Four.  Any loss that prevents any of those things from happening, IMO, is a big loss worthy of lamentation.  The NCAA tournament seems to be the only thing most MU fans care about.  If a loss kills our chances in the Big East regular season, it is no big deal, we should still make the tournament.  If we lose in the BET, no big deal, we'e still in the tournament.  Heck, even when we lose in the NCAA tournament they will say it's no big deal, we're poised for next year with this coming back, etc.

I just don't get that mentality. 
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Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

AlumKCof93

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2007, 10:38:55 AM »
I'm disappointed in our loss as I thought we could have played much better defensively.  But, it was Pittsburghs night.  They played very well yesterday with Gray being truly dominant which I haven't see too often.  When Pitts guard (I can't think of his name right now) banked the 3 in, I knew it was over.
Let's get ready for the dance.  It should be fun.  Our first game will be tough regardless of who we play, but I think we'll have a winnable game in game 2.  I can't wait.
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muwarrior87

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2007, 10:39:15 AM »
we can be upset that they lost, yeah, but i've found in my relatively short life that it doesn't do much good to lament on a loss or anything negative too long. We should take what we can out of a game, if it costs us a BET championship or the BE reg season title, it hurts, but ya gotta get over it quickly and move on to see what we can improve on and what we did well.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2007, 10:41:33 AM »
Well .. it's all about expectations.  Losing to a team you shouldn't lose to, that's upsetting.  Losing many in a row, that too.

All losses make me sick .. but less so, if I factor in expectations.  I did not expect to be undefeated this year.  I did not expect to win a NC this year, nor the BE Title nor tournament.   That meant losses were gonna happen somewhere.

(Now, true, if we're one and done in the NCAAs (again), that's a loss that's ledge worthy.  We've gotta prove we're in the top 32.)

mufanatic

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2007, 10:59:16 AM »
Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
Question.  When is it OK to be upset about a loss?  It seems that many on our board are never upset about the current loss and are always looking ahead. 
The team should have three goals at the beginning of each season.  BE regular season title, BE tournament title and NCAA Final Four.  Any loss that prevents any of those things from happening, IMO, is a big loss worthy of lamentation.  The NCAA tournament seems to be the only thing most MU fans care about.  If a loss kills our chances in the Big East regular season, it is no big deal, we should still make the tournament.  If we lose in the BET, no big deal, we'e still in the tournament.  Heck, even when we lose in the NCAA tournament they will say it's no big deal, we're poised for next year with this coming back, etc.

I just don't get that mentality. 

You don't get the mentality of some of the people on this board?  This is a team with some major weaknesses that plays in a very competitive conference.  Yes, the goal is to get a BE regular season title, BE tournament title and NCAA Final Four but I would think that there are few out there that would say we underachieved this year so this loss while disappointing is definitely not upsetting.  

We lost to a better team last night, plain and simple.  Yes we did beat them twice but there were a few extra obstacles against us that made it just a bit more difficult.  It looks like you were one of the few who had a realistic expectation of having us win the BE tournament title after the year we had so I guess I can see why you might be upset.  And depending on when we lose in the NCAA tourny, you will see a huge amount of fans either upset (first round loss) or a have a no big deal attitude (2nd round or later loss).  The realistic expectation for this team if you have watched them all year is to get to the second round of NCAA tourny. I mean it has only been pounded a million times on this board that this team can't rebound, has no post scoring, can't hit 3's, has an all-conference first team player that can't hit the broad side of the barn, can't hit free throws and turns the ball over way too much.  Wow, now that I look at the laundry list, it is amazing we made the tourny to begin with.  

As far as looking forward to next year, isn't that what fans always do?  Yes we are poised for a very good year next year with what is returning.  Is that such a travesty?  Realistic expectations will increase next year if we remain intact.  On paper we could have a very good team.  A legit top 10 team.  And if we don't achieve some of those three goals than you might have a few more fans be upset but lets think and talk about that after this year ends.  

mviale

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2007, 11:47:32 AM »
no crying in basketball - chest out and do the peacock dance
You heard it here first. Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259

tower912

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2007, 11:54:44 AM »
There are losses that stick in my craw for days and literally keep me awake at night.   Not last night.    It would have been a great win, but it was Pitt's night.   As far as expecting a BE championship and a final 4 at the start of the season, that is simply pie in the sky.  I felt this was a 10-6 BE record team at the beginning.   Sure, like many others, my expectations rose a bit after Duke and TT, but, and here is the most operative word in the entire post, REALISTICALLY, this team is one game off what I thought they would be.   Stupid NDSU.    This is a team with flaws.   When they successfully overcome their limitations, they win.   When the other team has a really big center, is patient, and pounds the ball inside in order to open up the outside shots that they hit, we lose.   Only one team truly finishes the year happy.   We are not going to be that team this year.  I expect a sweet 16.   Earlier loss, I will be ticked.   Elite 8, I will be happy.   Realism.....try it.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

NYWarrior

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2007, 12:03:49 PM »
I expect a sweet 16.   Earlier loss, I will be ticked.   Elite 8, I will be happy.

if McNeal is healthy and playing, I agree with u......though I'll say i'd be FU!^%&@G THRILLED with an elite 8 appearance

McNeal.  a big 'if'

CTWarrior

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2007, 07:52:25 AM »
I expect a sweet 16.   Earlier loss, I will be ticked.   Elite 8, I will be happy.   Realism.....try it.

You expect a sweet 16?  And then you say...realism, try it?  We've made exactly two sweet sixteens in the last 27 years.  Our current coach has won at least one NCAA game in exactly one season.

And you realistically EXPECT one this year?
 
My original point, though maybe not expressed too well, is that there is more to NCAA hoops life than the NCAA tournament.  I don't EXPECT us to win anything.  I said that should be our GOAL.  My point is that the BET is something we had a chance to win.  Maybe a 1 in 10 chance or something like that.  We do not have a realistic chance at making a FF this year.  Lunardi's bracket has us having to push through Indiana, North Carolina, Memphis and Kansas to do that.  While the road will probably not be that hard, it will be very difficult.

People have a right to be upset (not necessarily angry or whatever) or disappointed when we lose a chance at something like a Big East tournament game.  I'd rather see BET championship banners at the BC than Great Alaska Shootout banners.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 09:28:40 PM by CTWarrior »
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Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

michiganmufan

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Re: Lets all stay off of the ledges.....
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2007, 09:04:08 AM »
I was out on the ledge and looking down after we lost to Providence and Syracuse to start the Big East schedule.  But the team that won at UConn, at Pittsburgh, and at Louisville in the next four games made me forget how to even get out there.  Losing to a team that I believe to be our equal on only one night's rest is definitely no reason to panic.  When this team is on its A-game it is a top ten team.  Let's hope they bring it to the NCAAs.
When Wade went Pro, there weren't a lot of "wait until next years".  :D