TCU wants all sports or nothing

[GGGG]

That is apparently what they have said to the BE about their "football only" offer.

The BE once again finds itself at a crossroads.  Do they go with the good football school, but their poor basketball program?  Or do they not want to expand beyond 16...or go through the hassle of dumping one of their current members?

[muarmy81]

I say bring them on as a full member and dump Seton hall.

[Clarence]

It would be so much easier if Notre Dame would just join the conference in Football.

[HoopsMalone]

Openning offers are not final offers.  TCU does not hold that many cards.  If they want an easy path to an automatic BCS bid every year, then they will come around.  One loss and they are out as of now, and going to the Big East football only changes that for them.  No reason to lose that over their other sports.

[bilsu]

Openning offers are not final offers.  TCU does not hold that many cards.  If they want an easy path to an automatic BCS bid every year, then they will come around.  One loss and they are out as of now, and going to the Big East football only changes that for them.  No reason to lose that over their other sports.

I think they have a lot of bargaining power. Based on where they are now they would be the best progam in the Big East. As far as basketball 17 teams are not a problem. Either drop to a 16 game Big East schedule with no mirror games or stay with 18 game schedule with 2 mirror games instead of 3.

[Nukem2]

I think they have a lot of bargaining power. Based on where they are now they would be the best progam in the Big East. As far as basketball 17 teams are not a problem. Either drop to a 16 game Big East schedule with no mirror games or stay with 18 game schedule with 2 mirror games instead of 3.

I agree with bilsu.  Also would give the BE (still east of the MS river) a prescence in a large TX ciity.

[GGGG]

Openning offers are not final offers.  TCU does not hold that many cards.  If they want an easy path to an automatic BCS bid every year, then they will come around.  One loss and they are out as of now, and going to the Big East football only changes that for them.  No reason to lose that over their other sports.

TCU holds many cards.  Probably more than MU holds.

[Tugg Speedman]

I say bring them on as a full member and dump Seton hall.

Why stop with the Hall?  Put Depaul on notice.  Thell them its either 5 wins or more next year or they are gone.  Ditto St. Johns and Providence.  Put MU on notice, win less than 5 some season and they are off to the Horizon league as well.

In fact, the BE could do like English Premiership soccer (football) does.  The kick out the bottom two or three teams every year. 

I asked this before ... has a league ever kicked out a school for poor performance on the field?  The B10 tolerated NU for decades.  If the answer is no league has ever kicked out a school for their poor record, if we open this door, isn't this the end of the BE?  It will eventually self-destruct.

[HoopsMalone]

TCU's position is deceptively weak.  TCU does not have a better football offer.

They are one loss away from a crappy bowl every year.  They are hot right now, but who is to say they will be anything more than a flash in the pan as far as the BCS is concerned.  They need to make a strong push while they are hot to take advantage of their recent success.

I think a football only membership helps both sides.  Sending girl's cross-country on even more long flights to Texas does not make sense.  The right offer is on the table from the Big East.  TCU could lose two games and go to a BCS bowl if they go to the Big East.  They have a lot to lose by turning down this offer.

[GGGG]

Your question was answered before...the BE kicked out Temple.

But I wouldn't be too excited about kicking out Seton Hall and De Paul.  Pretty soon eyes will be looking toward Milwaukee after that.  Don't think that MU wouldn't be on people's short list for contraction purposes.  I mean, if they decided to not only invite TCU, but Houston or UCF, kicking out MU and De Paul, but keeping Seton Hall, PC, etc for the sake of tradition, isn't as far-fetched as people might think.

[HoopsMalone]

I hope the Big East knows that East Carolina or Central Florida or Houston could get hot for a few years like TCU is now.  I really hope the Big East grabs TCU, but don't let TCU push you around when there are other options.

[rocky_warrior]

has a league ever kicked out a school for poor performance on the field?  

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2062555

The [Temple] Owls were kicked out of the Big East after 13 years for failing to meet minimum requirements for membership, most notably in attendance, facilities and fielding a competitive team.

Well, there was more to it than just performance, but performance was a big factor.

[HoopsMalone]

 I mean, if they decided to not only invite TCU, but Houston or UCF, kicking out MU and De Paul, but keeping Seton Hall, PC, etc for the sake of tradition, isn't as far-fetched as people might think.

Agreed.  Hopefully they see more opportunity in a different market with MU and DePaul but we are very easily kicked out.  I hope MU hasn't done anything to offend the A-10...

[GGGG]

TCU's position is deceptively weak.  TCU does not have a better football offer.

They are one loss away from a crappy bowl every year.  They are hot right now, but who is to say they will be anything more than a flash in the pan as far as the BCS is concerned.  They need to make a strong push while they are hot to take advantage of their recent success.

I think a football only membership helps both sides.  Sending girl's cross-country on even more long flights to Texas does not make sense.  The right offer is on the table from the Big East.  TCU could lose two games and go to a BCS bowl if they go to the Big East.  They have a lot to lose by turning down this offer.

Football only membership does not help TCU.  Where do they go with their other programs?  CUSA won't take them.  MWC won't keep them.  They are left with...what...the WCC a la BYU?  I agree that TCU desires AQ membership, but where does it put its other teams?

And sending cross country teams to Texas is probably as expensive as MU sending ours to Syracuse a couple weeks ago.  Once you get on a plane, the cost differences with distance aren't all that great.

[HoopsMalone]

Football only membership does not help TCU.  Where do they go with their other programs?  CUSA won't take them.  MWC won't keep them.  They are left with...what...the WCC a la BYU?  I agree that TCU desires AQ membership, but where does it put its other teams?

And sending cross country teams to Texas is probably as expensive as MU sending ours to Syracuse a couple weeks ago.  Once you get on a plane, the cost differences with distance aren't all that great.

Their other sports can continue to generate little to no money anywhere they go.  If they go to the Big East for football, they get a very good chance at a BCS game.  I can see why they made this counter offer (why wouldn't you), but they have to know that in 5 years they could easily be a three loss team and barely making a bowl on Christmas Eve.  The Big East does have a few good options.  They are the best right now, but I do not know if they are the best by so much that they can dictate all terms.

And yes, a plane ride is a plane ride more or less, but the quantity of plane rides keeps jumping up and makes these non-revenue even more costly.

[GGGG]

Their other sports can continue to generate little to no money anywhere they go.  If they go to the Big East for football, they get a very good chance at a BCS game.  I can see why they made this counter offer (why wouldn't you), but they have to know that in 5 years they could easily be a three loss team and barely making a bowl on Christmas Eve.  The Big East does have a few good options.  They are the best right now, but I do not know if they are the best by so much that they can dictate all terms.

The problem is that while football is king, you can't just leave your other programs to die on the vine as independents.  TCU basketball has never been much, but baseball made the CWS last year, and they have sunk a ton of $$ into these other programs.

Look, the BE is by far the weakest of the BCS conferences football wise.  It may not be a bad move for them to wait and see what happens to the B12.

[groove]

In the meantime we can read up on A-10 history and get set for new rivalries.

[augoman]

Why stop with the Hall?  Put Depaul on notice.  Thell them its either 5 wins or more next year or they are gone.  Ditto St. Johns and Providence.  Put MU on notice, win less than 5 some season and they are off to the Horizon league as well.

In fact, the BE could do like English Premiership soccer (football) does.  The kick out the bottom two or three teams every year. 

I asked this before ... has a league ever kicked out a school for poor performance on the field?  The B10 tolerated NU for decades.  If the answer is no league has ever kicked out a school for their poor record, if we open this door, isn't this the end of the BE?  It will eventually self-destruct.

I hasten to point out that, while it has been about 50 years since Northwestern was ranked number one in the nation (football), as recently as ten years ago they won at least a share of first place 3 out of 10 times.  If in fact the big 10 is 'tolerating' someone..., it isn't NU.

[HoopsMalone]

The problem is that while football is king, you can't just leave your other programs to die on the vine as independents.  TCU basketball has never been much, but baseball made the CWS last year, and they have sunk a ton of $$ into these other programs.

Look, the BE is by far the weakest of the BCS conferences football wise.  It may not be a bad move for them to wait and see what happens to the B12.

I think they saw their hand this summer during the conference realignment madness.  The B12 and the Pac-10 did not appear interested in them, otherwise you would think that they would have come up for either of those conferences.  That is a big reason why TCU's position is not all that strong in my opinion to demand the Big East do something that they really do not want to do.  

[bilsu]

I would expect their basketball program to go on an uptick, if they joined the Big East. They would be selling that to recruits.

[GGGG]

I think they saw their hand this summer during the conference realignment madness.  The B12 and the Pac-10 did not appear interested in them, otherwise you would think that they would have come up for either of those conferences.  That is a big reason why TCU's position is not all that strong in my opinion to demand the Big East do something that they really do not want to do.  

The conference shake up is not over.  Not by a long shot.  If Texas goes independent and A&M goes to the SEC (and there are rumors abound that both might happen), TCU might be in a good position to join up with the remaining B12 schools.  How much of this is fact and how much is rumor needs to be sorted out though.

[bilsu]

The team they should actually kick out is Notre Dame. Basically, they should give Notre Dame the ultimatum to join in football or leave. One way or another Notre Dame in the long run is going to screw up the Big East either by leaving or deciding to join in football after we invited other teams. I rather see the Notre Dame situation settled before they do anything else in football.

[79Warrior]

Your question was answered before...the BE kicked out Temple.

But I wouldn't be too excited about kicking out Seton Hall and De Paul.  Pretty soon eyes will be looking toward Milwaukee after that.  Don't think that MU wouldn't be on people's short list for contraction purposes.  I mean, if they decided to not only invite TCU, but Houston or UCF, kicking out MU and De Paul, but keeping Seton Hall, PC, etc for the sake of tradition, isn't as far-fetched as people might think.

Bingo!!! 

[HoopsMalone]

The conference shake up is not over.  Not by a long shot.  If Texas goes independent and A&M goes to the SEC (and there are rumors abound that both might happen), TCU might be in a good position to join up with the remaining B12 schools.  How much of this is fact and how much is rumor needs to be sorted out though.

You are right that anything is possible.  But if TCU has the choice between seeing if that will happen or joining the Big East, I think the right choice is the Big East.  They could be 6-5 in three years for all they know.  

They should take advantage of this offer.  Turning it down would be like Crean getting the Big East offer after the Final Four and hoping the Big Ten would expand and accept hoops only schools.  Its not a perfect comparison, but we had to take advantage of the conference expansion while we were hot with the perception that Crean could coach and the Final Four success.  TCU must take advantage of their recent success because they may have the equivalent of our NIT years in no time.  Then, will the Big 12 come calling for them to be a flagship program in Texas?  

They are smart to counter to get some sort of concession out of the Big East.  They need to act and they know it.  The really big shakeup could still happen with 4 major conferences.  Having a track record of success in one of the 6 major conferences improves their chances of ending up in one of the big 4 at the end of the day.  

[GGGG]

Here is a good primer.  This guy wasn't terribly right this summer when it came to expansion, but it's interesting reading.

http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2010/11/04/frank-the-tanks-big-east-expansion-faq/