DeCourcy on BE- Calls out MU

[brewcity77]

if MU gets pushed out of the BE the program will begin to trend downward.

I'm not so sure about this. I think if we do get bumped, it really depends on where we go and if we can retain Buzz. Everyone thought C-USA would be a complete wasteland after the Big East came for us and the others, but Memphis has been able to thrive, continuing to recruit at a very high level and reaching a national title game. If we end up in the right conference and can absolutely dominate during the conference season, while continuing to do well in the non-conference and starting to show up in March, there's no reason we can't do what Memphis has done.

Of course, it's possible that it was just Calipari and questionable recruiting tactics, but Pastner has kept up their recruiting, and there are other teams that show that you don't have to be in a major conference to have high-level success (Butler, Gonzaga, George Mason). Of course we all want to stay in the Big East, but if we ended up in C-USA, the A-10, or another higher-level mid-major and were able to dominate, I fully believe that Buzz could still use Marquette's pedigree to continue the program at a high level.

[Benny B]

Right.  Everything is in balance right now.  However, if the NCAA makes a grab at football money, that rapidly pushes it out of balance.

Hypothetically, if the NCAA did make a grab, what are the BCS member institutions going to do?  Go off and start their own association?  Not a chance.

But let's assume the BCS is up for the logistical nightmare that is organizing anew.  Now you have two college athletic associations competing for the best talent.  And how do you attract the most talented unpaid athletes in the world?  Easy: pay them.  The agents have already thought of this -- all they need is for a door to crack open.  Shake up the NCAA, and you've just ripped that door from the hinges.

The NCAA isn't part of the balance, they are the balance - they are the ones who keep student-athletes unpaid.  If you have to start paying your performers, that Big Ten TV contract won't be so big anymore.

The BCS claiming that they'll simply "take their ball and go home" is an empty threat... the bottom line is that if this is indeed all about money, then the BCS needs the NCAA; however, the NCAA doesn't need the BCS.

[Marquette84]

Hypothetically, if the NCAA did make a grab, what are the BCS member institutions going to do?  Go off and start their own association?  Not a chance.

But let's assume the BCS is up for the logistical nightmare that is organizing anew.  Now you have two college athletic associations competing for the best talent.  And how do you attract the most talented unpaid athletes in the world?  Easy: pay them.  The agents have already thought of this -- all they need is for a door to crack open.  Shake up the NCAA, and you've just ripped that door from the hinges.

The NCAA isn't part of the balance, they are the balance - they are the ones who keep student-athletes unpaid.  If you have to start paying your performers, that Big Ten TV contract won't be so big anymore.

The BCS claiming that they'll simply "take their ball and go home" is an empty threat... the bottom line is that if this is indeed all about money, then the BCS needs the NCAA; however, the NCAA doesn't need the BCS.

The BCS schools already split from the NCAA for football.  They could do the same for basketball and there's nothing the NCAA could do about it.

Your comment about two leagues competing for talent belies the fact that the association with Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc. will get the best talent, and the one with Prairie View, IUPUI, St. Peters, etc, will not.

[MarquetteNation]

Would the big east really have been that much better off with Central Florida joining the conference back in 2005 instead of Marquette?

[PE8983]

"Translation...timing is everything and hatred blinds reality."

Notice that I didn't say one thing about what he did or didn't do.  Just commenting that you interject TC stuff into every thread (same thing you blame others for). 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not so sure about this. I think if we do get bumped, it really depends on where we go and if we can retain Buzz.

Buzz has said he will stay as long as we will have him

[ChicosBailBonds]

Buzz has always said he'll stay as long as MU wants him, but it's a two way street. If the Big East dumps MU, it relegates us to mid major status. Losing the Big East makes Gonzaga and Xavier our ceiling. That's not what he signed up for and I wouldn't blame him if he felt unwanted under those circumstances.

Blasphemy.  You mean it has conditions?  Hmm, that sounds awfully one sided.  Was he crossing his fingers when he said he would stay as long as we would have him?

Gonzaga and Xavier "ceiling"?  Since they have exceeded what we have done most years, doesn't sound like a bad ceiling.  Didn't Butler, George Mason, etc blow the lid off the idea of ceilings?  Hell, it might actually make it easier to get to the dance depending on where we would land.  I'm so disappointed to hear that it was a one way commitment.......or maybe he'll be just like any other coach out there that will move on a moment's notice if they feel it betters their career, etc.  My guess is the latter.

[brewcity77]

Buzz has said he will stay as long as we will have him

Yes, and I hope we can believe him when he says that, but this is major college athletics. If we ended up in the the Horizon and a school like Texas came calling, could anyone really begrudge him for leaving? I believe in Buzz, and I believe he fully intends to stay here, but in today's NCAA, the landscape and reality can shift quickly, and it'd be hard to blame him for adapting to that.

And Chicos, it seems like all you're trying to do is stir the Crean/Buzz pot again. No need for that...we have 7,342,268 other threads for that.

[Aughnanure]

Hypothetically, if the NCAA did make a grab, what are the BCS member institutions going to do?  Go off and start their own association?  Not a chance.

But let's assume the BCS is up for the logistical nightmare that is organizing anew.  Now you have two college athletic associations competing for the best talent.  And how do you attract the most talented unpaid athletes in the world?  Easy: pay them.  The agents have already thought of this -- all they need is for a door to crack open.  Shake up the NCAA, and you've just ripped that door from the hinges.

The NCAA isn't part of the balance, they are the balance - they are the ones who keep student-athletes unpaid.  If you have to start paying your performers, that Big Ten TV contract won't be so big anymore.

The BCS claiming that they'll simply "take their ball and go home" is an empty threat... the bottom line is that if this is indeed all about money, then the BCS needs the NCAA; however, the NCAA doesn't need the BCS.

Actually, thats exactly what they could do. Not that I think it is likely, but it is definitely in the realm of possibilities, and has been openly discussed lately with all the realignment. When the 4 main conferences expand somewhere from 16-20 teams (eventually), there is nothing to stop them from forming separate league with its own sponsors and championships. Hell, the NCAA is the only sporting organization that allows its postseason to be basically outsourced in the form of the BCS.

They could even hypothetically split to their own basketball league of 64-80 teams as well. The NCAA is basically a voluntary organization.   The argument is, why do the teams that make all the money have to support the other 30-40 that don't.

From there they could make their own eligibility rules, allow athletes to get paid, etc. This would not hurt their revenue AT ALL because they already dropped a lot of dead weight and the student would only be paid in small stipends that would only minimally affect the bottom line (which they should be anyways since they cant even have a job on campus).

To think that paying athletes is the single reason why the BCS cant leave the NCAA is naive. And dont be surprised if some movement on this issue begins soon, its the single best way to limit and restrict the powers of these agents have in college sports, and the momentum is gaining.

[Aughnanure]

"Just think for one moment where we would be right now if we didn't accomplish what we did from 2000-2003."

Translation: All hail the tan one...

Ok, seriously, I think when bringing up conference realignment and how fortunate Marquette was to get a chance in the Big East, bringing up the successes of Tom Crean as being paramount to our current position and still future success is hardly off-topic, especially when comparing to the decade of winning that Gonzaga, Butler and Xavier have had.

Obviously we are in a better position than all of them, and all would rather be in our position, but pure success is debatable....and all of that is due to 1) Tom Crean, and 2) Dwyane Wade. I absolutely LOVE Buzz and what he is doing, but everyone has to stop wetting their pants every time his name is brought relevantly, as though it is an automatic challenge to or knock on Buzz.

[El Duderino]

It takes very high level coaching to consistently win like a Gonzaga has when you're in a mid-major conference and then other struggling programs in major conferences will consistently try to lure that coach away.

Just look at how many of our recruits the last few years mentioned being able to play in the Big East as a sizable reason for picking Marquette.

Getting booted out of the Big East and thus being forced to join a mid-major conference would be a massive massive blow to the MU program and would in turn leave us vulnerable to being just one bad coaching hire away from being a program that's largely ignored by all top 100 recruits.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, and I hope we can believe him when he says that, but this is major college athletics.

Exactly.  And as such, believing any statement by ANY coach that says he's staying as long as we will have him is ridiculous.  

I'm not stirring anything...we simply wouldn't be in this position if not for the timing of our run.  We our extremely fortunate to be where we are right now.

[bilsu]

Buzz loves MU, because it fits his values. People's priorties often change, but as long as Buzz feels he fits in with the University, I believe he will stay. I see a change in the university's president as a bigger threat than a change in the conference. Buzz felt very comfortable with Fr. Wild. You never know how he will feel about a new president.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Paying student athletes is a non starter.  It's not going to happen because of Title IX.

You would have to pay the female and male non-revenue athletes.  That would be the end of college athletics as we know it

[SalsaMan]

This.

Knowing we'd be kicked out eventually we should have just packed it up after Crean departed and sucked hard like DePaul. A lot less stressful.

But we hired Buzz and now we'll elevate our winning and it will be more excruciating when they drop us.

The sting of a butt jam is never without pain, regardless of vaseline application.

[77ncaachamps]

This would have NEVER happened if we were still Warriors.

NO ONE would kick out a Warrior.

NO

ONE.

[Mr. Nielsen]

On Big Ten Football and Beyond which airs on the BTN on Wednesday night's, they reported that the Big East wants TCU as a football only school.

[Tugg Speedman]

Has a conference ever kicked out a member?  I thought all conference re-alignments were due to members leaving, not being kicked out.

How does a school get kicked out?  nine schools (a majority) vote them out?  You think the 8 non-football schools would vote one of their own out?  Does that open it up for them to get kicked out later?  Would all the non-footballs schools really want to set this precedent?

How about Nova?  Would Nova vote us out?  If so, does this put them under extreme pressure to get their football team competitive right away?  If not, and the precedent is set, could the other BE members decide that Memphis is a better football school, and a good basketball school and boot out Nova to make room?

Does the BE really want to go down this road of voting members out (off the island).  Once you start, does it stop at 1 or end in chaos?

[Litehouse]

Has a conference ever kicked out a member?

The Big East kicked out Temple for football.

[4everwarriors]

DeCourcy is Crean's asswipe. Therefore, much to do about nothing.

[GGGG]

Hypothetically, if the NCAA did make a grab, what are the BCS member institutions going to do?  Go off and start their own association?  Not a chance.

But let's assume the BCS is up for the logistical nightmare that is organizing anew.  Now you have two college athletic associations competing for the best talent.  And how do you attract the most talented unpaid athletes in the world?  Easy: pay them.  The agents have already thought of this -- all they need is for a door to crack open.  Shake up the NCAA, and you've just ripped that door from the hinges.

The NCAA isn't part of the balance, they are the balance - they are the ones who keep student-athletes unpaid.  If you have to start paying your performers, that Big Ten TV contract won't be so big anymore.

The BCS claiming that they'll simply "take their ball and go home" is an empty threat... the bottom line is that if this is indeed all about money, then the BCS needs the NCAA; however, the NCAA doesn't need the BCS.

The NCAA doesn't need the BCS, but they need the BCS institutions.  Don't think for a minute that starting their own association hasn't been discussed.  The BCS schools most definately *could* do this, and *would* do this if the NCAA makes a grab for their football money.  And what does that do to the NCAA?  It guts their major money maker - March Madness.

And there wouldn't be competition for long for major college basketball players.  The BCS conferences already get most of them.  And if the other conferences have to pay for them, it just takes away more revenue.  As I said, right now the BCS schools are fine with the NCAA.  The NCAA provides a framework for competition that they don't want to replicate, and the schools keep their football money.

[Pakuni]

It's amazing that this thread has gone nearly four pages now and nobody has mentioned the 800-pound gorilla in the room - the Congress of the United States of America.
Anybody who thinks senators and representatives from states with strong non-BCS programs (i.e. Utah, Idaho, Nevada, etc.) are simply going to let the federally funded BCS institutions "take their ball and go home" is out of their effing gourds. The BCS is on shaky enough ground as it is with Congress, not to mention the current occupant of the White House. Breaking off into a separate organization that literally leave hundreds of universities (some with fairly powerful alums) in a lerch would spell all kinds of trouble - starting with the loss of tax-exempt status for athletics and bowl games - for the BCS institutions.

[Cooby Snacks]

It's amazing that this thread has gone nearly four pages now and nobody has mentioned the 800-pound gorilla in the room - the Congress of the United States of America.
Anybody who thinks senators and representatives from states with strong non-BCS programs (i.e. Utah, Idaho, Nevada, etc.) are simply going to let the federally funded BCS institutions "take their ball and go home" is out of their effing gourds. The BCS is on shaky enough ground as it is with Congress, not to mention the current occupant of the White House. Breaking off into a separate organization that literally leave hundreds of universities (some with fairly powerful alums) in a lerch would spell all kinds of trouble - starting with the loss of tax-exempt status for athletics and bowl games - for the BCS institutions.

U-S-A! U-S-A!

If only Joe McCarthy was still around to go to bat for us on this one.  Jim Delany? Commie.

[GGGG]

It's amazing that this thread has gone nearly four pages now and nobody has mentioned the 800-pound gorilla in the room - the Congress of the United States of America.
Anybody who thinks senators and representatives from states with strong non-BCS programs (i.e. Utah, Idaho, Nevada, etc.) are simply going to let the federally funded BCS institutions "take their ball and go home" is out of their effing gourds. The BCS is on shaky enough ground as it is with Congress, not to mention the current occupant of the White House. Breaking off into a separate organization that literally leave hundreds of universities (some with fairly powerful alums) in a lerch would spell all kinds of trouble - starting with the loss of tax-exempt status for athletics and bowl games - for the BCS institutions.

The BCS hearings before Congress were met with a collective "Why are you wasting your time doing this?" when Hatch sponsored them before.  Congress will bluster, but in the end won't do anything...especially since the Pac 12 will include Utah.

[Henry Sugar]

The BCS hearings before Congress were met with a collective "Why are you wasting your time doing this?" when Hatch sponsored them before.  Congress will bluster, but in the end won't do anything...especially since the Pac 12 will include Utah.

A split between the BCS and the NCAA would be an entirely different context than the previous hearings.  I doubt the collective perspective would be the same.