Behind closed doors...

[Wade for President]

Now that the last two Top 100 targeted players have announced (Shaw to U of I, Faust to Maryland), I'm wondering what you guys think Buzz and the coaching staff are saying behind closed doors?  Obviously disappointment would be a strong theme, but are they necessarily surprised?  How much faith or optimism do you think the staff had in landing any of our targeted ballers (Shaw, Harrison, Faust, Hood, Trey McDonald, Miller, etc)?  Obviously Miller & Bello were a pipedream, but the others sounded like possibilities.

Between the upcoming season, Madness, MU Revealed, and our returning talent, I'm incredibly excited about this year.  However, it's been a tough few weeks from a recruiting standpoint since Juan announced. 

It's nice to make the final 3-5 for these recruits, but disappointing to walk away empty handed.
 
Thoughts, comments, concerns?

[SalsaMan]

Nothing like an ice cold San Miguel to take the sting out of a bad recruiting day

[Nukem2]

Remember:  Jamil Wilson and Juan Anderson already incoming for next year.  In recruiting there is is only first place and last play.  No cigar or style points or medals for finishing anywhere in between.  Now is not the time to moan as there are still many guys out there who may well end up better than those we miss on.  

[SacWarrior]

I try not to let recruiting get me down.

Especially when our best players, DJO and Butler, are JC transfers, along with Fulce and Crowder. Plus you never know how Faust and Shaw are gonna pan out.

[SalsaMan]

In recruiting there is is only first place and last play.  No cigar or style points or medals for finishing anywhere in between.

There might not be a medal or a cohiba but there certainly is ice cold San Miguel! Ito ng beer!

[4everwarriors]

I'm figurin' Buzz knew he was S.O.L. with all these dudes for quite a while. Remember he's in communication with the recruits and/or their posse. Until he's gets this program to the level of a destination, he'll whiff on as many as he scores with. Homegrown talent would help turn the corner. But, nothing would be quicker than developing a big man.

[BCHoopster]

He is realizing how tough it is to recruit to Marquette, but he is happy with what he has right now.  He is in fine shape for at least 3 years,
so it is not the end of the world.  Most programs whiff even the normal Top 5 do as well.  just means he has pick off a few next year,
particularly a big body forward.   MU will have room for a transfer now in spring, and those always come up.  Kids look at a rock solid roster
and do not see a lot of playing time.  Once that opens, it will get easier.

[Chili]

There might not be a medal or a cohiba but there certainly is ice cold San Miguel! Ito ng beer!

Didn't know Salsa and the Philippines went together. 

[tower912]

He is figuring out how to win with what he already has and working on his plan B.   There is no quit, there is no moaning.

[Hards Alumni]

I'm figurin' Buzz knew he was S.O.L. with all these dudes for quite a while. Remember he's in communication with the recruits and/or their posse. Until he's gets this program to the level of a destination, he'll whiff on as many as he scores with. Homegrown talent would help turn the corner. But, nothing would be quicker than developing a big man.

This is just my opinion (obviously), but I don't agree with this at all.  I don't think that 'developing a big man' would bring in better big men.  What is the logic behind that?  I think that doing something like changing the offense (say, structuring it around post play) would have a bigger effect.  Right now (for better or worse) we are known for having a guard friendly offense.  Short of making a deep run and proving to people that Buzz can get us deep into the dance, I don't see high level big men (of which there are few) choosing to attend MU unless they are from the upper midwest, or Texas (Buzz's stomping grounds).

I think the whole "develop a big man, and they will come" mantra is desperately overplayed.  Short of playing time, what does our offense offer to a top flight big man?  Getting the rebound, putting it back or passing it out to our guards who do the scoring.

Does anyone else feel like this, or am I on a lonely island here?

[4everwarriors]

Here's the thing. All top recruits want to play in the NBA. They will commit to the coach, first and foremost, whom they think gives them the chance at making millions. Until Buzz gets a big man into the Association, he won't attract those types of players, probably only guards and wings.

[dwaderoy2004]

This is just my opinion (obviously), but I don't agree with this at all.  I don't think that 'developing a big man' would bring in better big men.  What is the logic behind that?  I think that doing something like changing the offense (say, structuring it around post play) would have a bigger effect.  Right now (for better or worse) we are known for having a guard friendly offense.  Short of making a deep run and proving to people that Buzz can get us deep into the dance, I don't see high level big men (of which there are few) choosing to attend MU unless they are from the upper midwest, or Texas (Buzz's stomping grounds).

I think the whole "develop a big man, and they will come" mantra is desperately overplayed.  Short of playing time, what does our offense offer to a top flight big man?  Getting the rebound, putting it back or passing it out to our guards who do the scoring.

Does anyone else feel like this, or am I on a lonely island here?

OK.  But if you develop a big man, you can then begin to design plays for him and make the offense more balanced and big man friendly.  they go hand-in-hand.  You can't just run post plays if we have no one down there who can do anything with it.  If O'tule became a beast on the blocks, or we did get a top 50 post, i'm pretty sure we would get them the ball...

[willie warrior]

Nothing like an ice cold San Miguel to take the sting out of a bad recruiting day

Haven't seen san Miguel lately, but I agree. It will take several to take the sting away.

[Hards Alumni]

OK.  But if you develop a big man, you can then begin to design plays for him and make the offense more balanced and big man friendly.  they go hand-in-hand.  You can't just run post plays if we have no one down there who can do anything with it.  If Otule became a beast on the blocks, or we did get a top 50 post, i'm pretty sure we would get them the ball...

I get what you guys are saying, and I agree, they sort of go hand in hand.  You can't just put anyone off the street down low.  Unfortunately, getting lucky with a big man development isn't really a reality.  As long as Buzz runs a guard oriented offense will likely never 'develop' a big man because he will lack opportunities.  Could he start out as an effective rebounder, and defender, and eventually work his way into the offense?  Sure, but who says that is what Buzz even has in mind for the offense?  Remember, this is a guard's game, and that is how our offense is tailored.

See what I mean?  For us to legitimately 'develop' a big man, we have to alter the offense.  This would most likely make us pretty unsuccessful (considering our talent is our wings and guards)... and then the real complaining would start.

Personally, I am fine with having our big men play solid D, and grabbing rebounds.

[79Warrior]

I'm figurin' Buzz knew he was S.O.L. with all these dudes for quite a while. Remember he's in communication with the recruits and/or their posse. Until he's gets this program to the level of a destination, he'll whiff on as many as he scores with. Homegrown talent would help turn the corner. But, nothing would be quicker than developing a big man.

I think we need some post season success, both in BE and NCAA. Winning a BE title would help.  Until you can make some runs, we are considered a nice program but not a progam that is a factor in the post season.

[Lennys Tap]

I get what you guys are saying, and I agree, they sort of go hand in hand.  You can't just put anyone off the street down low.  Unfortunately, getting lucky with a big man development isn't really a reality.  As long as Buzz runs a guard oriented offense will likely never 'develop' a big man because he will lack opportunities.  Could he start out as an effective rebounder, and defender, and eventually work his way into the offense?  Sure, but who says that is what Buzz even has in mind for the offense?  Remember, this is a guard's game, and that is how our offense is tailored.

See what I mean?  For us to legitimately 'develop' a big man, we have to alter the offense.  This would most likely make us pretty unsuccessful (considering our talent is our wings and guards)... and then the real complaining would start.

Personally, I am fine with having our big men play solid D, and grabbing rebounds.

No coach is going to sacrifice wins to "develop" players. If Buzz (or any coach) has Kareem he runs the offense through him. If he has Burke or OTule, not so much. I think Buzz's "dream team" is a point, 3 switchables, and an athletic, skilled interior (either a pf or a c). He'll be 80% there by next year (if he's not there already) but that interior guy has thus far eluded him.

[Daniel]

I think if either Otule or Gardner or both develop to the point where they could give us 6 points a game with interior play, we will see them fed the ball.  I think we will see it this year - more interior play than we've seen in a while IF either Otule or Gardner can deliver a little bit on offense.  Buzz has proven already that he develops the game plans around the players he has.  This year we may see more speed and more upbeat tempo, and some interior play if these guys can deliver a little.

[Hards Alumni]

No coach is going to sacrifice wins to "develop" players. If Buzz (or any coach) has Kareem he runs the offense through him. If he has Burke or OTule, not so much. I think Buzz's "dream team" is a point, 3 switchables, and an athletic, skilled interior (either a pf or a c). He'll be 80% there by next year (if he's not there already) but that interior guy has thus far eluded him.

Exactly.

[avid1010]

No coach is going to sacrifice wins to "develop" players. If Buzz (or any coach) has Kareem he runs the offense through him. If he has Burke or OTule, not so much. I think Buzz's "dream team" is a point, 3 switchables, and an athletic, skilled interior (either a pf or a c). He'll be 80% there by next year (if he's not there already) but that interior guy has thus far eluded him.

I'd agree.  The other thing to remember with Buzz is that he does put an emphasis on points in the paint, and he would often get guards/SF in a position to post up their defender if he felt it was advantageous.  Guys like Mathews, Zar, and Butler get plenty of points in the paint, add to paint touches, and make it possible for our guards to get open looks at 3's which has transpired into impressive 3 point shooting %'s.  If guys like Gardner and Otule are good enough to simply keep their defenders honest, consistently rebound and play solid defense there isn't a huge need to throw them the ball in the paint.  My problem with this team is that I don't think those two are capable of doing even that.  So in that case, Buzz goes small, plays a 4-out (sometimes 5) to create mismatches on offense, then we deal with the mismatches on defense.  Giving the ball to Butler in the paint is just as likely to result in points or a double down as it is when we give it to a center.  If Otule's guy can help on Butler because Otule is not a threat, we're better off having someone capable of making a shot on the floor (enter Fulce/Williams).

[NersEllenson]

  If guys like Gardner and Otule are good enough to simply keep their defenders honest, consistently rebound and play solid defense there isn't a huge need to throw them the ball in the paint.  My problem with this team is that I don't think those two are capable of doing even that. 

I'd disagree on Otule at present..and Gardner by his sophomore year.  Otule can defend, rebound, and score off putbacks and a baby hook.  I see Gardener really pushing Otule by next year.  Gardner definitely has very good offensive skills at this stage for a first semester freshman.  All this said, MU's best lineup may be as you mention 4 out 1 in..and not feature Otule.

[bilsu]

I believe if Otule gets the minutes he will average 8 points a game. Most of the points coming off rebounds. Otule needs to do three things. Play defense, rebound, and not clog the offensive lane, which would hinder the other players driving to the basket. What he lacks is a 10-15 foot shot to open up the lane. Gardner has the outside shot and better hands than Otule. However, he lacks conditioning and defense.

[79Warrior]

I'd disagree on Otule at present..and Gardner by his sophomore year.  Otule can defend, rebound, and score off putbacks and a baby hook.  I see Gardener really pushing Otule by next year.  Gardner definitely has very good offensive skills at this stage for a first semester freshman.  All this said, MU's best lineup may be as you mention 4 out 1 in..and not feature Otule.

You have a very optimistic outlook for Otule. i do not share it. Chris will give you a few muinutes a game, a couple of rebounds and three or four fouls.

[6746jonesr]

In response to the original post, I don't think Buzz is losing a whole lot of sleep over recruits signing elsewhere.  Let's face it, Buzz has a pretty unique personality, and I don't believe that a lot of the top recruits are going to want to buy into his system.  I believe that a lot of the top recruits already think they are NBA ready.  Are they going to want to do boot camp, or take the criticism that Buzz is going to lay on them?

I think Buzz is the perfect coach for those players who dream of playing in the NBA, and are willing to be coached and work their tails off.  He speaks of coaching with a chip on his shoulder, and he wants his players to have that same attitude.  That doesn't sound like too many of the blue chip recruits.

[avid1010]

I'd disagree on Otule at present..and Gardner by his sophomore year.  Otule can defend, rebound, and score off putbacks and a baby hook.  I see Gardener really pushing Otule by next year.  Gardner definitely has very good offensive skills at this stage for a first semester freshman.  All this said, MU's best lineup may be as you mention 4 out 1 in..and not feature Otule.

I hope you're right, but he'd be going from not being able to stay healthy (let alone play/produce) to being a solid defender in the BEAST.  I understand you feeling like Gardner will develop, but I wonder where you get your optimism on Otule for the present.  I've seen him play plenty this summer/fall, and while tough to gauge, I didn't see anything to thrilling.  He hit one hook-shot in a fun scrimmage, and now he has a hook shot?

[GGGG]

In response to the original post, I don't think Buzz is losing a whole lot of sleep over recruits signing elsewhere.  Let's face it, Buzz has a pretty unique personality, and I don't believe that a lot of the top recruits are going to want to buy into his system.  I believe that a lot of the top recruits already think they are NBA ready.  Are they going to want to do boot camp, or take the criticism that Buzz is going to lay on them?

Why not?  Are you under the impression that top recruits don't want to be coached by someone who is tough?  Every top coach runs their own version of boot camp.  Many coaches are critical of their players.

Look, Buzz is starting his third year as a coach, and while the team in his first two years has played hard and exceeded expectations, when it comes down to it they don't have a great deal to show for it at the end of the season.  (A final four in the BE tournament and two first weekend exits in the NCAA.)  He is not a proven commodity like Gary Williams, Bruce Weber or even Scott Drew.  There is no shame at this point in losing recruits to these guys.  If this team is as talented as everyone suggests, and if he is as good a coach as people feel, he will win...and the recruiting results will follow.