Keaton Miles

[StillAWarrior]

completely regardless tho his next two classes were freaking terrible and led to two completely pathetic years.

His next one class was pretty terrible.  The class after that had James, McNeal and Matthews.  It's a fact.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have some land I'd like to sell you.  TC definitely was more than interested in the Illinois job and probably would have taken it if the interest was mutual and they would meet what MU was willing to cough up.

Of course "interested", anyone in their right mind in any profession is....but you're also missing some of the inside facts that you obviously weren't privy to.  Sorry, just the way it is.  TC started playing the game a year later and, in fact, regretted for awhile that he stayed at MU because he was having a tough time overcoming the "he won't be at MU" long.  Ironic in many ways.

[jmayer1]

His next one class was pretty terrible.  The class after that had James, McNeal and Matthews.  It's a fact.

Yes, that's true Dimes is mixed up.  

Crean got 2 guys for the 03-04 class around/after the Final 4 (Carlton Christian and Marcus Jackson).  The other 3 recruits from that class (Bell, Mason, and Matthews) were signed prior to the start of the 02-03 season and the Final Four.

TC then had one class where he wasn't able to capitalize on the FF much at all (Barro, Amoroso, and Kinesella) and then landed a really good class the year after (3 amigos..etc).

At most you could say TC didn't capitalize on 1 1/2 class immediately after the FF, but that wouldn't exactly be fair either, considering what is usually left in late spring (immediately around/after the FF run).

After the '05 class though, the '06 and '07 classes weren't particalarly stellar either.  Only Lazar was an impact player, with Acker and Cubillan being solid at times, especially in their senior years. Who knows how '08 would have turned out, but I thought Taylor and Williams were a nice start.

[StillAWarrior]

Yes, that's true Dimes is mixed up.  

Crean got 2 guys for the 03-04 class around/after the Final 4 (Carlton Christian and Marcus Jackson).  The other 3 recruits from that class (Bell, Mason, and Matthews) were signed prior to the start of the 02-03 season and the Final Four.

TC then had one class where he wasn't able to capitalize on the FF much at all (Barro, Amoroso, and Kinesella) and then landed a really good class the year after (3 amigos..etc).

At most you could say TC didn't capitalize on 1 1/2 class immediately after the FF, but that wouldn't exactly be fair either, considering what is usually left in late spring (immediately around/after the FF run).

After the '05 class though, the '06 and '07 classes weren't particalarly stellar either.  Only Lazar was an impact player, with Acker and Cubillan being solid at times, especially in their senior years. Who knows how '08 would have turned out, but I thought Taylor and Williams were a nice start.

First, I think it's not fair to criticize Crean for not "taking advantage" of the FF in that first class because there really isn't much talent available in April.  It's the next year where you should really see the dividends, and, as I've said before, he "screwed the pooch" in that next year.  That's one bad class following the FF, not "2 or 3".  After that, though, he had a great class, and then his other classes competed very well in the toughest basketball conference in the country.  Mid-major players don't compete well in the Big East.  Therefore, I am comfortable saying that Crean's recruiting wasn't nearly as bad as Dimes is claiming.  Or, if it was, he and Buzz must be geniuses to have gotten those mid-major kids to compete at a very high level.  So, Dimes, which is it?  Was Crean a good recruiter?  Or did his recruiting suck but he was a great in-game coach?

[Ready2Fly]

Off the top of my head, players Buzz has snagged in or about April: Butler, DJO, Crowder

[StillAWarrior]

Off the top of my head, players Buzz has snagged in or about April: Butler, DJO, Crowder

That's a good point.  I won't argue that Crean did a good job recruiting JUCO.  Clearly that wasn't part of his strategy for the most part.  Marcus Jackson was an attempt at that (if I remember correctly), but Crean obviously overlooked that source of recruits.  I think it is fair to fault him for that.

[NersEllenson]

Was Crean a good recruiter?  Or did his recruiting suck but he was a great in-game coach?

I'd say Crean was an above average recruiter, and an average game coach.  He was pretty much good for 1 really good recruiting class every 3 years.  The Big 3 were legit, and were good enough to be competitive as freshman in the Big East, mixed in with Novak and Ooze.  I'd call Crean a very good or great recruiter, if he were able to attract some high major talent (Top 100) in subsequent recruiting classes after his really good year.  The problem was there was such fall off on the roster from spots 1-5 to 6-10..the 6-10 players were, at best mid-major quality players...which translated into the results we got...NCAA appearance, 5th place finish in Big East, but bounced in the first round of the NCAA. 

[StillAWarrior]

I'd say Crean was an above average recruiter, and an average game coach.  He was pretty much good for 1 really good recruiting class every 3 years.  The Big 3 were legit, and were good enough to be competitive as freshman in the Big East, mixed in with Novak and Ooze.  I'd call Crean a very good or great recruiter, if he were able to attract some high major talent (Top 100) in subsequent recruiting classes after his really good year.  The problem was there was such fall off on the roster from spots 1-5 to 6-10..the 6-10 players were, at best mid-major quality players...which translated into the results we got...NCAA appearance, 5th place finish in Big East, but bounced in the first round of the NCAA. 

I generally agree.  My comment was to those who want to argue that he sucked at recruiting and he sucked as an in-game coach.  It's not true, and the results show that.  I think your assessment -- "above average recruiter and average game coach" -- is fair.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

i may be wrong i thought he signed someone in the spring after the final four.  completely regardless tho his next two classes were freaking terrible and led to two completely pathetic years.

Wonder if Buzz does what cream did in years 5 and 6 of his tenure how people would feel.  Luckily we wont have to worry about it.  Buzz understands great players make coaches great, Others write books about how great of coaches they are...and then go sign classes like his last two at indiana.  Or like 7 of his 9 at MU.   

Canadian Dimes Translator 2000:

Guys, please don't confuse me with the facts. I don't care for Tom Crean, and I will find (or in this case make up) examples and show everybody how bad he really was.

[4everwarriors]

McNeal, James, and Matthews started as freshmen by default. Why was that? 'Cuz the talent sucked when they came in. Who, of those 3, would start on this year's MU team if they were entering freshmen now?

BTW, Creans sucks sewer water.

[PBRme]

James

[4everwarriors]

I'm figuring Cadougan's a better point guard overall.

[JWags85]

Just because he played under someone many of us now hate, don't diminish James as a player and a person in this program.  He became a fantastic defender and was an excellent distributor of the ball, especially his senior year.  Junior could become better but all we have now is an incomplete sample from last year where he was far from fantastic and high expectations going forward.  Give DJ some respect and let Junior come into his own, yeesh.

[jmayer1]

I'm figuring Cadougan's a better point guard overall.

I think we're still a long way from being able to make that conclusion.  D James was a heck of player, especially his freshman year; which overall statistically was his strongest season.

[mugrad99]

I'm figuring Cadougan's a better point guard overall.

-1

As others have stated, Junior's a big unknown. Dom was one of the Top 7 or 8 MU point guards in my opinion. If Junior reaches that level, I will be extremely happy.

[StillAWarrior]

McNeal, James, and Matthews started as freshmen by default. Why was that? 'Cuz the talent sucked when they came in. Who, of those 3, would start on this year's MU team if they were entering freshmen now?

Same old broken record.  The team sucked so bad that it started three freshmen who couldn't even sniff a starting spot on this year's team (according to you), yet somehow managed to finish fourth in the Big East and nab a seven seed in the NCAA tourney.  Man, Crean must have been a hell of a coach.

I'll stick with Ners.

[jmayer1]

Of course "interested", anyone in their right mind in any profession is....but you're also missing some of the inside facts that you obviously weren't privy to.  Sorry, just the way it is.  TC started playing the game a year later and, in fact, regretted for awhile that he stayed at MU because he was having a tough time overcoming the "he won't be at MU" long.  Ironic in many ways.

Sorry I'm not the "insider" you claim to be.  The simple fact is that Crean would have taken the UI job if they would have offered at his asking salary, of cousre there is some conjecture around as to why they didn't offer the job: salary demands or otherwise but TC had more than a passing interest.