Shaw Not Committing Until Spring? Issue Qualifying DePaul Now In The Picture?

[nyg]

Maybe Huggins did not want to wait for Shaw until the spring and filled out his class.  Does Illinois and others now wait or do the same?

[dennycrane]

Considering all the time and energy the staff has put into Shaw, there is no reason to move on, until the Shaw camp says - Marquette, you are out of the mix.

Shaw's "handlers" are the Irvin family, and by all accounts they are in favor of him going to MU - it is the family that is rumored to be pushing for West Virginia or Illinois.  MU being the "recommended" school by the Mac Irvin camp, is HUGE.

The Irvin's reputation is checkered at best. If you talk to some in the know in Chicago it is much worse than that. One of the Irvins is a agent.

[NersEllenson]

The Irvin's reputation is checkered at best. If you talk to some in the know in Chicago it is much worse than that. One of the Irvins is a agent.

Generally when people become the most successful in their field, there are always going to be some haters.  The reality is the Irvins are big time players in the Chicago hoops scene, and some resent that, or have a jealousy toward that - due to their own personal agendas.  With AAU basketball becoming the real recruiting "grounds" for high school basketball talent these days, kids always are going to have "handlers," a better word probably is "advisors."

[CAINMUTINY]

Well I for one can wait.  Shaw is a great prospect and I hope in the end he chooses MU.

[dennycrane]

Generally when people become the most successful in their field, there are always going to be some haters.  The reality is the Irvins are big time players in the Chicago hoops scene, and some resent that, or have a jealousy toward that - due to their own personal agendas.  With AAU basketball becoming the real recruiting "grounds" for high school basketball talent these days, kids always are going to have "handlers," a better word probably is "advisors."

The people I have talked to are in no way in competition with Irvins. It has nothing to do with the scenario you have fabricated.

I know nothing of Shaw's family or their motivations. However from the outside something does not feel right if the family is pushing in one direction and the Irvins another. What would be the Irvins motivation for getting in between family members? If it were the other way around and the family was leaning toward Marquette while the Irvins were pushing a different direction views here might be quite different. I also would suggest that there are few fans that are a little leery after the Maymon and Newbill situations with who and how they are dealing with people in recruiting. Fishing in muddy waters you never know what you may end up catching.

[MarkCharles]

The people I have talked to are in no way in competition with Irvins. It has nothing to do with the scenario you have fabricated.

I know nothing of Shaw's family or their motivations. However from the outside something does not feel right if the family is pushing in one direction and the Irvins another. What would be the Irvins motivation for getting in between family members? If it were the other way around and the family was leaning toward Marquette while the Irvins were pushing a different direction views here might be quite different. I also would suggest that there are few fans that are a little leery after the Maymon and Newbill situations with who and how they are dealing with people in recruiting. Fishing in muddy waters you never know what you may end up catching.

Great post. I have no idea where an AAU coach gets off trying to push a player in a certain direction if his family wants another. Who do these guys think they are? You are absolutely right about how up in arms we'd all be if it were the other way around.

Perhaps the reason Shaw seemed so uninterested at and after Marquette Madness is because the Irvins were there. Maybe he is becoming offput by him trying to push him to MU, if that really is the case. Or maybe he was forced to go by Irvin and doesn't have much interest in MU anymore.

[BCHoopster]

Just maybe the Irvins are a little shady, I am sure somebody can figure out what I am
saying!

[NersEllenson]

The people I have talked to are in no way in competition with Irvins. It has nothing to do with the scenario you have fabricated.

I know nothing of Shaw's family or their motivations. However from the outside something does not feel right if the family is pushing in one direction and the Irvins another. What would be the Irvins motivation for getting in between family members? If it were the other way around and the family was leaning toward Marquette while the Irvins were pushing a different direction views here might be quite different. I also would suggest that there are few fans that are a little leery after the Maymon and Newbill situations with who and how they are dealing with people in recruiting. Fishing in muddy waters you never know what you may end up catching.

Yes - Badger fans such as yourself are concerned with Marquette's recruiting under Buzz Williams.  Your post history speaks for itself Denny Crane..go crawl back in your hole.

[Skatastrophy]

Yes - Badger fans such as yourself are concerned with Marquette's recruiting under Buzz Williams.  Your post history speaks for itself Denny Crane..go crawl back in your hole.

+1

[muarmy81]

The people I have talked to are in no way in competition with Irvins. It has nothing to do with the scenario you have fabricated.

I know nothing of Shaw's family or their motivations. However from the outside something does not feel right if the family is pushing in one direction and the Irvins another. What would be the Irvins motivation for getting in between family members? If it were the other way around and the family was leaning toward Marquette while the Irvins were pushing a different direction views here might be quite different. I also would suggest that there are few fans that are a little leery after the Maymon and Newbill situations with who and how they are dealing with people in recruiting. Fishing in muddy waters you never know what you may end up catching.

Denny...look at your example, Tim Maymon.  There's as good of a reason as any to get between a kid and his family.

[Pakuni]

None of us really know what the situation with Shaw is, who's pushing him where, etc. The best we have is speculation from an anonymous source cited by the Bullseye guys. An anonymous source whose motivations for talking - and motivation for keeping himself anonymous - we don't know.

That said, it is not unusual, or even improper, for kids and families to rely on guidance from AAU coaches through the recruiting process. Most families have never gone through the whirlwind. Most high school coaches, with very few exceptions, go through it more than once every five years. AAU coaches, especially at a program like the Irvins', go through it every year with multiple kids. They really are the closest thing to experts for these kids and their families.
Obviously this can, and does, lead to improper and unethical behavior. But we shouldn't assume the mere fact a kid is taking advice from his AAU coaches somehow makes his recruitment "shady."

Lastly,anyone who believes Marquette is and should be above dealing with the Irvins, then we might as well forget about having any notable recruiting success in Chicago. Fact is, every Division I program in the Midwest - including the one in Madison - recruits Irvin players.

[Bob "Big Daddy" Wild]

Great post. I have no idea where an AAU coach gets off trying to push a player in a certain direction if his family wants another. Who do these guys think they are? You are absolutely right about how up in arms we'd all be if it were the other way around.

Perhaps the reason Shaw seemed so uninterested at and after Marquette Madness is because the Irvins were there. Maybe he is becoming offput by him trying to push him to MU, if that really is the case. Or maybe he was forced to go by Irvin and doesn't have much interest in MU anymore.

A lot of reasons for an AAU coach to push in a different direction than the parents.  Here is a few off the top of my head:
1. The Irvin family has place numerous players into high D1 schools.  They have quite a bit of experience on seeing college coaches pitches vs. the reality once said player ends up on campus.
2. Overzealous family members - we all have them.  Someone brought up Tim Maymon below - what if Jeronne's AAU coach had been running his recruitment from the start?  Probably would have picked a different school to begin with and not lost a year of eligibility.

However, there are other reasons an AAU coach might push a kid in one direction, such as building a relationship with a school coach - i.e. if you take player A now, I'll push player B your way later.  Or if I send you player A now, will you take some lower player B to fill out your bench later?

I have no idea why the Irvin's may favor MU, but I don't think it is fair to assume automatically that it is in the best or not best interest of the kid.  A lot of moving pieces going on in a recruitment like this.

[Canadian Dimes]

having been around the scene for awhile and also have a nephew that plays for the Mac Irvin Fire. 

Everyone has an agenda ...some parents kid didnt get to play as much as the parent thought thay should so the coach is a loser, dirty, etc etc etc etc.

He beat our team too badly he is scum.....a kid left our program to play for his he is scum...he didnt want my kid even tho he is better than that kid...

I have heard so many stories i could write a book...usually about pretty good people being said usually or started usually by......parents.


is there some stuff that goes on that isnt the greatest....of course...but the Irvins no different than most grass roots sports organizations are good people that love the game and are trying to help kids.  pretty simple.

My guess is the Irvins favor MU ( if they do in fact)  becuase they think it would be the best fit for him.  Nothing more nothing less.

[GGGG]

IF Irvin is pushing Shaw to mu it very well could be that he feels that Buzz would be a good fit for him bball wise. Maybe the family doesn't see it that way or doesn't have a full appreciation of that. This is just speculation anyway.

[Lennys Tap]

IF Irvin is pushing Shaw to mu it very well could be that he feels that Buzz would be a good fit for him bball wise. Maybe the family doesn't see it that way or doesn't have a full appreciation of that. This is just speculation anyway.

You're right about it being all speculation, but all speculation is not equal. At least Dimes has some personal history with the Irvins and a knowledge of the terrain they travel. All Denny Crane has is his omnipresent anti-MU bigotry which he backs up with unsourced innuendo.

[dennycrane]

Yes - Badger fans such as yourself are concerned with Marquette's recruiting under Buzz Williams.  Your post history speaks for itself Denny Crane..go crawl back in your hole.

When you can't attack the message attack the messenger.

In regards to Tim Maymon, they broke the mold. As stated I know nothing of Shaws family but to suggest that they may compare to Maymon would be far fetched.

A year ago I heard the same attacks when warning about Maymon and how things might not turn out so well for MU.

The truth is the Irvin's are shady. Have known that for over a decade. The silent majority would likely much prefer to be in the shoes of the schools the family is pushing rather than the school the Irvins are pushing.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Denny,

What can you tell me about Mike Naiditch?  How does a guy from leafy Highland Park know a recruit, Michael Dunnigan, "from his early high school days"? How is it that he was just interested in the AAU scene before he decided to become a pro agent?   How is it that he represents so many of Bo's players now?  How does he know Howard Moore?  Interesting that going back to Michael Finley, he was providing summer jobs for Badger players....

"Mike Naiditch, for whom Finley once worked for a summer at the highly charged Chicago Board of Options Exchange, describes him this way: “He’s a very smart, independent thinker. … He’s got much more than the basic building blocks to be successful in business. … He is highly motivated to achieve, and I think business is only one way he could do that if he wanted to. Basketball is another, and I’m sure there are many, many more.”

"Connections" are a bitch sometimes, eh Bucky?  Let's see if I got this right:  Alum, donar, AAU coach, agent, employer, street recruiter, friend of the program....hmmm.  Did I miss any other Badger ties?  

http://chucknowlen.com/Finley.html

[NersEllenson]

When you can't attack the message attack the messenger.

In regards to Tim Maymon, they broke the mold. As stated I know nothing of Shaws family but to suggest that they may compare to Maymon would be far fetched.
A year ago I heard the same attacks when warning about Maymon and how things might not turn out so well for MU.

The truth is the Irvin's are shady. Have known that for over a decade. The silent majority would likely much prefer to be in the shoes of the schools the family is pushing rather than the school the Irvins are pushing.

The only jag trying to imply the Shaw situation is similar to the Maymon situation is you - but now you write that to compare the Shaw family to the Maymon family is far fetched?  (Yet you say you don't know the Shaw family..whereas you've implied in the past you "knew" the Maymon family??)  Talk about a mind fu_k!

Who is this silent majority you mention?  Ever think a family who has NEVER dealt with a recruiting process for a high major talent, might not be as knowledeable as an AAU program who has sent multiple players to high-major programs in the last decade?  Ever take into consideration that the Irvins believe Buzz get's the most out of his players - and would help Shaw maximize his talent..and also see that there is PT to be had right away at Marquette at the 4?  Ever think that IF there are academic issues with Shaw...the family may prefer him to go to a school with a coach like Huggins who will "keep" you eligible no matter what the classroom performance?  Lastly to quote Mike Irvin:

"In Marquette you have Buzz Williams, one of the up and coming great coaches in the game. With Buzz, he gets the most out of his players, and was the same energetic Buzz as he is on the phone. Buzz believes in himself and what he has to offer at Marquette, and that is what he basically relayed on the in-home visit.”

[Pakuni]

More on Shaw from Bullseye:

http://ilprepbullseye.com/page59.html

And Now Moving To Shaw

Another top-tier class of 2011 prospect whose recruitment is very much being affected by academics (although in an entirely different fashion) is Mike Shaw, the 6'8 forward from De LaSalle Institute.  The bottom line is that this coming weekend will be THE most important weekend of Shaw's entire recruiting process.  That is because Shaw will take the ACT for the first time on Saturday and then head to the University Of Illinois the following day on an official visit.

It appears as though one school that may now be out of the running for Shaw's services is West Virginia, as the Mountaineers are now out of scholarships in the 2011 class after landing a commitment from 6'6 forward Keaton Miles from Lincoln High School in Dallas yesterday.  Shaw has also taken previous official visits to both DePaul and Marquette.

Knowing that Shaw's recruitment hinges largely on how certain things pan out with respect to his academic situation, here is how we see things shaping up: provided Shaw still takes the ACT this coming Saturday and ends up receiving a respectable score (it doesn't necessarily even have to be a qualifying score on the first attempt) we believe that he will end up committing and signing during the Fall signing period.  If not, his recruitment goes into the spring and then things really become interesting.

We find it to be somewhat ironic that Randle and Shaw could end up closing out their recruitments right around the same time, with the possibility that both could make announcements by Halloween weekend.  Will that be the case, will one end up biting before the other, or will circumstances dictate things being prolonged (at least for one of them) even further?  Our only answer is that we are about to find out soon.

[dennycrane]

The only jag trying to imply the Shaw situation is similar to the Maymon situation is you - but now you write that to compare the Shaw family to the Maymon family is far fetched?  (Yet you say you don't know the Shaw family..whereas you've implied in the past you "knew" the Maymon family??)  Talk about a mind fu_k!

Who is this silent majority you mention?  Ever think a family who has NEVER dealt with a recruiting process for a high major talent, might not be as knowledeable as an AAU program who has sent multiple players to high-major programs in the last decade?  Ever take into consideration that the Irvins believe Buzz get's the most out of his players - and would help Shaw maximize his talent..and also see that there is PT to be had right away at Marquette at the 4?  Ever think that IF there are academic issues with Shaw...the family may prefer him to go to a school with a coach like Huggins who will "keep" you eligible no matter what the classroom performance?  Lastly to quote Mike Irvin:

"In Marquette you have Buzz Williams, one of the up and coming great coaches in the game. With Buzz, he gets the most out of his players, and was the same energetic Buzz as he is on the phone. Buzz believes in himself and what he has to offer at Marquette, and that is what he basically relayed on the in-home visit.”

You digress from attacking the messenger mode to name calling. Bravo!

I never compared the Shaw recruitment to the Maymon situation. That was another poster ( MUarmy81 ) that made that link. The context in which I brought up Maymon and Newbill was to point out that there are MU fans out there that are leery of any further drama. I pointed out quite the opposite of what you suggested in that it was unlikely the Shaw family was similar to Maymon.

I find your baseless claim that Huggins would keep a player eligible no matter what ironic.

[dennycrane]

Denny,

What can you tell me about Mike Naiditch?  How does a guy from leafy Highland Park know a recruit, Michael Dunnigan, "from his early high school days"? How is it that he was just interested in the AAU scene before he decided to become a pro agent?   How is it that he represents so many of Bo's players now?  How does he know Howard Moore?  Interesting that going back to Michael Finley, he was providing summer jobs for Badger players....

"Mike Naiditch, for whom Finley once worked for a summer at the highly charged Chicago Board of Options Exchange, describes him this way: “He’s a very smart, independent thinker. … He’s got much more than the basic building blocks to be successful in business. … He is highly motivated to achieve, and I think business is only one way he could do that if he wanted to. Basketball is another, and I’m sure there are many, many more.”

"Connections" are a bitch sometimes, eh Bucky?  Let's see if I got this right:  Alum, donar, AAU coach, agent, employer, street recruiter, friend of the program....hmmm.  Did I miss any other Badger ties?  

http://chucknowlen.com/Finley.html

So this guy Naiditch provided Finley with a summer job? What is your point? That was illegal? Immoral because he was later his agent? There was some sort of recruiting advantage?

Naiditch very well could be another part of the problem. Although I don't know anything about him and he certainly has not had the long term notorious reputation of the Irvins.

[NersEllenson]

You digress from attacking the messenger mode to name calling. Bravo!

I never compared the Shaw recruitment to the Maymon situation. That was another poster ( MUarmy81 ) that made that link. The context in which I brought up Maymon and Newbill was to point out that there are MU fans out there that are leery of any further drama. I pointed out quite the opposite of what you suggested in that it was unlikely the Shaw family was similar to Maymon.

I find your baseless claim that Huggins would keep a player eligible no matter what ironic.

No - I'm attacking your argument, and calling you what you are - a Badger jag on a Marquette message board.  It's okay that you're here Denny, but please don't get sensitive when your posts are rebutted and you get called out for being who you are.  And while you are here, lets get it straight from you as to what the "long term notorious reputations of the Irvins," are...put it in writing Denny. 

Lastly, if you think any Marquette fans care about the Maymon "drama" beyond feeling bad for Jerrone - you are delusioinal.  As you pointed out, everyone knew going into it is was a roll of the dice due to Tim Maymon. Buzz rolled the dice and lost on Maymon, but won on Vander Blue.  Personally, I don't have a problem with rolling the dice on a talented kid..and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out...and you part ways.

[Dr. Blackheart]

So this guy Naiditch provided Finley with a summer job? What is your point? That was illegal? Immoral because he was later his agent? There was some sort of recruiting advantage?

Naiditch very well could be another part of the problem. Although I don't know anything about him and he certainly has not had the long term notorious reputation of the Irvins.

See the NCAA investigation at Oregon....and his client list of Bo' Boys....and his long history with the Badgers as a friend of the prgram going back 15-20 years...and his AAU ties...that is a whole lot of "shady" going on...

[TedBaxter]

Any correlation between the Wisconsin Playground Warriors switching shoe company sponsorships to Adidas recently and Ritchie Davis making glowing comments in the Madison newspaper about Bo Ryan's recruiting tenacity for Playground Warrior players J.P Tokoto and Bronson Koenig?  Remember, Wisconsin is an Adidas sponsored program also and Bo Ryan has had some success, putting it mildly with recruiting Playground Warrior players including Trevon Hughes, J.P. Gavinski, Brian Butch, Greg Stiemsma, Keaton Nankivil, Tim Jarmusz, Evan Anderson and a verbal from current player Sam Dekker.

I put that comment in italicized print to illustrate what kind of comment would be put on a Badger board if the Marquette program had similar success recruiting an AAU programs players.  

Do I believe Ritchie is playing favorites with Wisconsin and that he was helped by Wisconsin in securing his Adidas sponsorship?  I have no proof of that because I am not involved in any recruiting discussions and have no idea what was involved with the Nike to Adidas switch.  I'd rather side with the thought that everything is on the up and up with Ritchie and Bo Ryan because I believe in innocence before I have absolute proof of guilt.

[dennycrane]

It's okay that you're here Denny, but please don't get sensitive when your posts are rebutted . 

Webster will need to change its definition of rebuttal. Removing "refute" from the definition. Adding name calling and creative writing. LMAO