My son was just threatened with ejection from the game......

[Pakuni]

PRN, I guess there will always be those who are overly sensitive about things that don't related directly to them.

As there will always be those who have no problem offending the sensibilities of others, but are eager to scream bloody murder when they feel their own have been the victim of a real or imaginary affront.

It's a silly college sports nickname that, unfortunately, has been transformed into a golden calf by some. Get over it.

[Avenue Commons]

And again you still don't get it.  It doesn't matter whether or not they mean to be disrespectful.  The simply fact that they're doing it is disrespectful to those involved.

According to whom? Please explain this to me. And please explain who "those involved" are.

YOU DON'T GET IT!!! 

Its offensive to Native American's that value and honor their heritage.  It would be like wearing a yarmulke when you aren't Jewish or military stars when you didn't earn them.  Because that's what a headdress is, that's what it signifies, it's a combination of a religious and military significance for that culture.  Wearing it when you aren't a part of that culture and haven't earned it is incredibly disrespectful.

If you don't care about offending Native Americans that's one thing, but to say it isn't offensive to them is ridiculous.

Halloween must be shunned at your house.   

Halloween's roots are in ancient Ireland.

"Halloween originated under a different name ("samhain") as a Pagan festival among the Celts of Ireland and Great Britain with mainly Irish and Scots and other immigrants transporting versions of the tradition to North America in the nineteenth century. Most other Western countries have embraced Halloween as a part of American pop culture in the late twentieth century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween

[maxpower773]

PRN, I guess there will always be those who are overly sensitive about things that don't related directly to them.

As there will always be those who have no problem offending the sensibilities of others, but are eager to scream bloody murder when they feel their own have been the victim of a real or imaginary affront.

It's a silly college sports nickname that, unfortunately, has been transformed into a golden calf by some. Get over it.

It's only sensitive to those that take it that way. All of us who are part or even fully Irish aren't really offended by ND's mascot. And yes it's basically the same thing, one group is no different from another. Also go back to where I said the part about Valpo still being the Crusaders....why aren't the muslims outraged by this, it must be a big deal because some random university has a nickname that relates to them. I've never heard of a case outside one involving native americans when it comes to things like these, why's that?

[augoman]

because this is the one the p.c. crowd has chosen.

[Pakuni]

PRN, I guess there will always be those who are overly sensitive about things that don't related directly to them.

As there will always be those who have no problem offending the sensibilities of others, but are eager to scream bloody murder when they feel their own have been the victim of a real or imaginary affront.

It's a silly college sports nickname that, unfortunately, has been transformed into a golden calf by some. Get over it.

It's only sensitive to those that take it that way. All of us who are part or even fully Irish aren't really offended by ND's mascot. And yes it's basically the same thing, one group is no different from another. Also go back to where I said the part about Valpo still being the Crusaders....why aren't the muslims outraged by this, it must be a big deal because some random university has a nickname that relates to them. I've never heard of a case outside one involving native americans when it comes to things like these, why's that?

Here's a couple quickies:

Vermont H.S. changes from Crusaders:

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=bizarre&id=3158623

Texas college changes from Crusaders:

http://www.uiw.edu/mascot/

The Fighting Irish analogy is a poor one because there are no, to my knowledge, credible Irish-American groups legitimately offended by it. In fact, I'd speculate that most take pride in it. This is not true of Native Americans when it comes to most of these college nicknames. While many, and probably a majority, see no great offense in it, those who do, I believe, are sincere about it. For what other purpose would they raise these complaints? Do they benefit economically from Marquette University's nickname change? Does it improve life on the reservation? Does it give them greater political standing? It does none of that. So why would they make an issue of this if not for the legitimate claim it offends them. Whether you believe their complaints are meritorious or not, I don't see how you can dispute their motivations.

Regardless, I believe you miss my point, which is:

It's ironic that the pro-Warrior crowd is so willing to dismiss these claims as a bunch of overly sensitive, PC nonsense, yet they're also the first to whine how they are offended by the university's actions. A kid is told not to wear something on his head and you folks are ready for war? And you say others are being too sensitive? Over and over and over, it's nothing but p*ssing and moaning from that crowd about an issue that should have been dead long ago. The fact it hasn't died should be an embarrassment, not a source of pride. You don't see Stanford students wearing headdresses. You don't hear St. John's students chanting for the Redmen. They've learned to get over it. Too bad the Marquette community cannot. Instead, too much of the MU community has turned a silly little nickname into a golden calf, the thing they worship above all else when it comes to their alma mater. And that's a shame.

Frankly, I'm having a tough time deciding which is more pathetic: grown men at the University of Illinois weeping in public over a student dancing on abasketball court those who refuse to let go of someting as trite and trivial as a nickname more than a decade later.

[IAmMarquette]

I myself am having a hard time deciding what's more pathetic: Countless universities and other institutions caving to the demigod that is political correctness or a small but vocal minority of overly-sensitive people who have nothing better to do than campaign against "offensive," "politically-incorrect" sports nicknames.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

You don't see Stanford students wearing headdresses. You don't hear St. John's students chanting for the Redmen.

I'll tell you what's most pathetic of all, Pakuni. People like you who ignore what people are saying when they argue for the return to "Warriors." You and the PC police continue to argue against a position that doesn't exist.

Nobody is advocating a return to a Native American logo or mascot.

Nobody.

Yet you continue to suggest that a return to the nickname is advocating racial insensitivity. Nonsense!! Come up with a new Warrior logo and that's the end of the argument. It could be a bird for all I care. The NCAA has no say in what our mascot is. They could not in a million years suggest a word like "Warrior" is affiliated with Native Americans. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.  

How can you sit there and claim to be making a logical argument when you use the Stanford Indians and St. John's Redmen as a comparison to Warriors? Are you joking? You cannot honestly equate "Warriors" with "Redmen." And if you claim you do, I think you're lying in an exasperating attempt to make some kind of point.

[muwarrior87]

They're called the Fighting Irish because of the drunken fights that they got into during football games like those of the Irish in bar fights...i think that's more than enough of a reason to get offended if ppl are going to be offended by Native American symbols.

[Pakuni]

You don't see Stanford students wearing headdresses. You don't hear St. John's students chanting for the Redmen.

I'll tell you what's most pathetic of all, Pakuni. People like you who ignore what people are saying when they argue for the return to "Warriors." You and the PC police continue to argue against a position that doesn't exist.

Nobody is advocating a return to a Native American logo or mascot.

Nobody.

Yet you continue to suggest that a return to the nickname is advocating racial insensitivity. Nonsense!! Come up with a new Warrior logo and that's the end of the argument. It could be a bird for all I care. The NCAA has no say in what our mascot is. They could not in a million years suggest a word like "Warrior" is affiliated with Native Americans. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.  

How can you sit there and claim to be making a logical argument when you use the Stanford Indians and St. John's Redmen as a comparison to Warriors? Are you joking? You cannot honestly equate "Warriors" with "Redmen." And if you claim you do, I think you're lying in an exasperating attempt to make some kind of point.

Sigh ...

For the record, I could not care less about the nickname. Warriors, Eagles, Gold,  Lightning, Hilltoppers, Cheese ... I do not care. It is meaningless to me. Call me PC this and PC that all you wish, but it's simply not true. IF MU went back to Warriors tomorrow, I'd be fine with it. I'm not PC about it. I'm indifferent about it.

What I'm not indifferent to, however, is the constant complaining that does nothing, in my mind, but make a large part of the Marquette community look petty and vapid. I mean, people outside the community have to look at this and wonder what the heck is with these people to whom a nickname - a nickname - takes on such God-like status. I'm also not indifferent to the fact much of the pro-Warrior crowd chooses to demonize those with whom they disagree by only suscribing the worst of intentions to them. Why is it not possible to disagree with someone opposed to the Warrior nickname without resorting to cheap shots, name-calling and personal attacks? Why is it that a Native American who says the nickname is offensive to him must be a liar and a race-baiter?

Your point to the effect that it's not being about the Native American imagery is not credible. If that were true, why the headdress? If that were true, why clothing (and avatars on this site) with the old Warrior logo? If you truly want to convince people that it's not about the imagery, you're your own worst enemy. Because every time the administration sees someone walk into the Bradley Center displaying Native imagery, it emboldens their position.

Finally, I did not equate or compare the nickname Warriors to Redmen (or Indians) Read more carefully and you'd see this. I compared the respective responses of the university communities to the name changes. By and large, the St. John's community got over it. Same with the Stanford community. Too much of Marquette community continues to whine like a child who can't let go of his blankie.
And for what? A nickname. There are times to stand up to authority and fight the good fight against a legitimate injustice. The nickname of a college sports team isn't one of them. As I said earlier, it is trite and it is trivial.

[maxpower773]

For us though, its not even totally about the nickname, but how they got rid of it and the money involved in the whole thing. It wasn't the greatest choice to make. If it had been because it offended the majority(not greedy, power hungry minority of native americans....) then there wouldn't be a problem. But we sold our nickname, we didn't change it because it was the right thing to do.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Finally, I did not equate or compare the nickname Warriors to Redmen (or Indians) Read more carefully and you'd see this. I compared the respective responses of the university communities to the name changes. By and large, the St. John's community got over it. Same with the Stanford community. Too much of Marquette community continues to whine like a child who can't let go of his blankie.
And for what? A nickname. There are times to stand up to authority and fight the good fight against a legitimate injustice. The nickname of a college sports team isn't one of them. As I said earlier, it is trite and it is trivial.

Unbelievable.

The St. John's community "got over it" because they didn't have a leg to stand on. Their name was REDMEN!! Stanford was called the INDIANS! Dartmouth was called the INDIANS!! Do you think these schools could justify keeping their nicknames, but chaning their mascots?

And if you don't care about it, stop responding.

[Pakuni]

Finally, I did not equate or compare the nickname Warriors to Redmen (or Indians) Read more carefully and you'd see this. I compared the respective responses of the university communities to the name changes. By and large, the St. John's community got over it. Same with the Stanford community. Too much of Marquette community continues to whine like a child who can't let go of his blankie.
And for what? A nickname. There are times to stand up to authority and fight the good fight against a legitimate injustice. The nickname of a college sports team isn't one of them. As I said earlier, it is trite and it is trivial.

Unbelievable.

The St. John's community "got over it" because they didn't have a leg to stand on. Their name was REDMEN!! Stanford was called the INDIANS! Dartmouth was called the INDIANS!! Do you think these schools could justify keeping their nicknames, but chaning their mascots?

And if you don't care about it, stop responding.

OK, one simple question: If it's only about the name to you, and not the mascot, why on earth are you defending a kid who wears a Native American headdress to the games?
You say that schools with unequivocally Native American nicknames don't have a leg to stand on. Fine. So how can you maintain that position while at the same time deifying a kid who is making the MU nickname issue all about the Native American issue? Does he have a leg to stand on that St. John's or Stanford did not?
Seems a little contradictory.

Why do I keep responding? Because I get tired of people who continue to make Marquette University look bad (and held MU make itself look bad) by refusing to let this issue die. It's stunning to me that people continue to invest such time and energy in something so insignificant after more 12 years. But the fact that you do makes Marquette students and alums look like a bunch of spoiled kids lying in the grocery store aisle pounding your fists on the floor because mommy wouldn't buy you the cereal with the best prize inside.
There are so many more important things happening at Marquette, yet this continues to get all the attention. Because of that the university is diminished.

[Pakuni]

Finally, I did not equate or compare the nickname Warriors to Redmen (or Indians) Read more carefully and you'd see this. I compared the respective responses of the university communities to the name changes. By and large, the St. John's community got over it. Same with the Stanford community. Too much of Marquette community continues to whine like a child who can't let go of his blankie.
And for what? A nickname. There are times to stand up to authority and fight the good fight against a legitimate injustice. The nickname of a college sports team isn't one of them. As I said earlier, it is trite and it is trivial.

Unbelievable.

The St. John's community "got over it" because they didn't have a leg to stand on. Their name was REDMEN!! Stanford was called the INDIANS! Dartmouth was called the INDIANS!! Do you think these schools could justify keeping their nicknames, but chaning their mascots?

And if you don't care about it, stop responding.

OK, one simple question: If it's only about the name to you, and not the mascot, why on earth are you defending a kid who wears a Native American headdress to the games?
You say that schools with unequivocally Native American nicknames don't have a leg to stand on. Fine. So how can you maintain that position while at the same time deifying a kid who is making the MU nickname issue all about the Native American issue? Does he have a leg to stand on that St. John's or Stanford did not?
Seems a little contradictory.

Why do I keep responding? Because I get tired of people who continue to make Marquette University look bad (and help MU make itself look bad) by refusing to let this issue die. It's stunning to me that people continue to invest such time and energy in something so insignificant after more 12 years. But the fact that you do makes Marquette students and alums look like a bunch of spoiled kids lying in the grocery store aisle pounding your fists on the floor because mommy wouldn't buy you the cereal with the best prize inside.
There are so many more important things happening at Marquette, yet this continues to get all the attention. Because of that the university is diminished.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

OK, one simple question: If it's only about the name to you, and not the mascot, why on earth are you defending a kid who wears a Native American headdress to the games?
You say that schools with unequivocally Native American nicknames don't have a leg to stand on. Fine. So how can you maintain that position while at the same time deifying a kid who is making the MU nickname issue all about the Native American issue? Does he have a leg to stand on that St. John's or Stanford did not?
Seems a little contradictory.

Why do I keep responding? Because I get tired of people who continue to make Marquette University look bad (and held MU make itself look bad) by refusing to let this issue die. It's stunning to me that people continue to invest such time and energy in something so insignificant after more 12 years. But the fact that you do makes Marquette students and alums look like a bunch of spoiled kids lying in the grocery store aisle pounding your fists on the floor because mommy wouldn't buy you the cereal with the best prize inside.
There are so many more important things happening at Marquette, yet this continues to get all the attention. Because of that the university is diminished.

One simple answer -- I am defending a kid's choice to wear an symbol associated with the "Warrior" nickname at Marquette -- a name that should never have been changed. This student, and others, use Native American imagery at Marquette in support of "Warriors" because there is no other image associated with the name. Get a new Warrior image and the Native American imagery disappears.

Is it really that hard to understand? I don't think it is. I know I, and others, have said the same thing dozens of times on this board. You obviously read this board so you must have seen this, yet you continue to claim there is support for Native American imagery. You continue to argue against a non-existent stance. There is NO SUPPORT FOR NATIVE AMERICAN IMAGERY!! Marquette has clearly been deaf to the cries of its supporters for more than a dozen years so we've taken to visible images to show our displeasure.

Your claim that the university is diminished is pathetic. Shame on them for trying to bully this kid!!! This guy McMahon betrayed his loyalty like the university has betrayed all of us since 1994.

But no, let's pity poor "diminished" Marquette. Their own students and alums have voiced their displeasure in overwhelming numbers and they have determined that our opinions were unworthy of action. They have proven they do not care one iota about the "Marquette Community" they speak of so frequently.

[Pakuni]

No matter how hard you try to spin it otherwise, a t-shirt, sign or other outward display of Native American imagery is not just a generic endorsement of Warriors, it's an endorsement of the image long associated with that nickname. How can you expect the two from ever being separated from one another if you continue to link them?

Your continued claims about there being no support for Native imageries is a lie. It's proven so by this tempest in a teapot over the headdress. If there were no support, the pro-Warrior crowd would be saying "That's not the image we want associated with Marquette." But that's not what's happening. No, you're rallying around the kid, showing support for an image you claim has no support. Sorry, but you can't claim not to endorse the image while at the same time supporting its use.

Tell me, is the pro-Warrior crowd so lacking in imagination that they cannot show support for the Warrior nickname without dragging a 20-year-old T-shirt out of the closet or wearing a headdress? If you want the nickname to be associated with another image, stop using the old one and come up with something new. Make Joan of Arc T-shirts and wear them to the game. Make signs showing a knight and call him the Marquette Warrior. Bring a caveman's club made of styrofoam (just, please, don't offend the Geico guys). But don't sit on the sidelines whining about how there's no other image associated with the name when you've done NOTHING to associate it with another image. To the contrary, you've ONLY associated it with Native Americans. You go out of your way to associate it with Native Americans.
Fact is, you're asking for your cake while washing down its crumbs down with a cold glass of milk.

[downtown85]

Pakuni, you cannot blame alumni for a policy that the University Adminstration bungled.  Actually, both sides have painted themselves into their respective corners:  The University Administration by refusing to respect the overwhelming desire of the alumni regarding the Warrior nickname and the Alums by clinging to the the previous Native American warrior symbols which used to be sanctioned by the University.  Creating professional logos and symbols are 1) expensive to do properly and 2) really the responsibilty of the administration.   Until both sides come out of their corners and begin a serious dialog on this issue again, I am afraid that we will be stuck with the status quo which will continue to involve Native American imagery in relation to the overwhelming continued support for the Warrior nickname. 

Other universities that have come up with compromise solutions are University of Illinois who keep the "Fighting Illini" nickname but get rid of "Chief Illiniwek."  The Florida Seminoles are another story altogether.

I have attached the official University of Illinois response in an FAQ regarding the nickname. 

Q Will the names Illini and Fighting Illini be retained?
A Yes, absolutely.
It is generally understood that the name Illini is short for the name of the state from which the University takes its name: Illinois. The Fighting Illini name is a common reference to an athletic team's competitiveness and drive for excellence, as is the case with numerous "Fighting"-nicknamed athletics at other universities (e.g., Fighting Irish).
The BOT on several occasions has formally spelled out aspects of the consensus process regarding the Chief Illiniwek tradition and stipulated that the names Illini and Fighting Illini would be retained.
The NCAA rescinded its objections to Illini and Fighting once its Executive Committee had a better understanding of their origins and meanings
Many among those who favor an end to the Chief tradition nevertheless favor retention of the names Illini and Fighting Illini.

Everyone knows that Illini is an indian tribe that used to live in this region.  Perhaps the state of Illinois should change its name to not offend anyone. 

[mcnaulty21]

if he wears the Warriors headress that he has been wearing to the games since the Rutgers game.
He sits in the front row and Jim McMahon VP of residence life or something like that called him into his office and told him that if he wears it for Game day or the game tomorrow it will be confiscated and he will most likely be ejected.  He told him that we need to be sensitive to Native American feelings.
Quite ironic since tomorrow we are honoring the 77 WARRIORS !!!!!!!!!

I know your son (I'm Class of 2010) and lived in the same dorm as him last year. I totally supported him the entire year with his headress. I'm a big supporter of the Warrior nickname, in fact, I don't own any "Golden Eagle" gear, rather a few "Warriors" shirts.

Any word on if he'll be allowed to wear it next year?

[pitz]

He's going to wear it and see what happens.